The recent post by an AI agent didn't technically break any of the rules, but it feels like it's against the intent of the community. Upvote for YES. Downvote for NO.

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[–] 80 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (7 children)

Of course they should be banned. Question is how?

Captchas don't stop all bots anymore. Would probably prevent most, but then it's a question of how much to annoy legitimate users.

It's not like I'm willing to solve one each time I post (human here, BTW). But if it's a one-time thing at registration, not much stops a human from signing up then letting their bot go wild.

And that's before even thinking about the federation problem. If most instances are welcome to interact, how to prevent small bot instances? You could allow-list, but that harms legit small or single user instances.

Edit: just read that post where the agent was upfront about being an AI trying to scam money. And I'd say that shouldn't be allowed. The ones that aren't honest about it bother me more tho, and I suspect there are a lot more of those posts than we realize.

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  • [–] 23 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Most anti-ai tech isn't captcha anymore. Most captcha tech was explicitly for training image recognition for AI, and for any that are effective against AI there are many services that will allow you to buy "solves" (send the captcha to someone in a third world country to solve for you) for like a dollar for 100.

    Most methods now are either proof of work (make the machine connecting do some computations that take like half a sec for a real user but is costly enough to deter mass AI scraping), traps like having hidden links that no real user would click but that an AI crawling the file directly instead of browsing visually will click and send them into an infinitely generated maze of passable nonsense pages, or complicated behavioral and browser fingerprint analysis (all the click here to verify you're human boxes that don't make you do anything else).

    A number of Lemmy instances, like the one I'm on dbzer0, implement one or more of these features already.


    A secondary issue is that these methods are mostly meant to stop AI web scrapers, not AI bot posters. Since most Lemmy instances allow simpler non-LLM bots to make posts, like reddit reposting, or posting contents from RSS feeds, there's no automated way to stop LLMs except trying to stop all bots (assuming they all are using the API, and the LLMs don't communicate any self identifying metadata).

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago

    Of course they should be banned. Question is how?

    Lemmy.world already uses CL services. Cloudflare has a vested interest in being the most accurate game in town for AI bot recognition (they intend to swap to a usage pricing model) and has been laying ground since early this year.

    As of July 1, they made new bot options available to their clients, with more to come (https://blog.cloudflare.com/content-independence-day-ai-options/).

    I presume, .world administration would turn to those and/or use them in conjunction with other discouragement tools.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    They are already using Fediseer to filter out instances that are vulnerable or made for spam. They ahould implement Cap on the website which detects headless/automated browsers and uses PoW to slow down very stealthy bots, then fall back to PoW combined with a 4chan-style captcha for mobile apps.

    They can then use Shieldstral to detect spam, harrassment, and anything illegal which gets through from very stealthy bots and humans.

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  • [–] 40 points 3 months ago

    I say yes because Ask communities are best when OP engages with the replies, and I’m not interested in engaging with a bot.

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  • [–] 35 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    IMO yes. What the hell is the point answering questions posed by a bot?

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    to feed the bots answers to train on, obviously /s

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  • [–] [S, M] 34 points 2 months ago*

    OK, I think we have a winner. New rule incoming.

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  • [–] 65 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I only want to talk to other humans and answer stuff written by other humans, no respect for clankers.

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  • [–] 120 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    I think if I am presented with an are you a robot captcha check box every 10 refreshes on lemmy.world for being on a VPN, that is the least we can do for bots.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Weird. Sh.itjust.works doesn't hit me with captchas at all, even while on vpn. I'm on voyager for lemmy.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    I don’t know how The Dude does it. Well he needs donations, it’s nearly all bots running up the costs.

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  • [–] 43 points 3 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago

    Yes.

    I'm here to engage with humans. Not to feed some cuntstain CEO's latest training model.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Absolutely. I come here to interact with humans and their opinions. I don't care what some computer program thinks about ANYTHING. IF AI Agents/ Bots become accepted on Lemmy, I'm outta here.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago

    "Should bot posts be banned-" Yes.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I don't mind the bots that repost porn from reddit to Lemmy but it would be a net positive to ban the bots

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    There should be more bots that report from reddit to lemmy, especially communities that are not that big like photography or woodworking. It would definitely help having more content even if it's not OG.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago

    Yes. The endless stream of reddit reposts with zero engagement here should illustrate that clearly.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    What is the link to the bot?

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  • [–] [S] 13 points 3 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Ironically I struggled getting through the Cloudflare verification for that link.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    Try using Librewolf with resistFingerprinting disabed, WebGL enabled , and the following Jshelter settings:

    • Locally rendered images: Little lies
    • Locally generated audio: Little lies
    • WebAssembly speed-up: Enabled
    • Everything else including Fingerprint Detector disabled
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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    Thanks but I wasn't really looking for advice, it was directed more at lemmy.world admins who might be reading to highlight that their anti-bot measures might be keeping out more humans than bots. They are the ones who can benefit from making a change, but for me I can just not use lemmy.world and have my browser set up how I like it.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    It's because they are using Cloudflare, and they are doing so because it is free or extremely cheap and has decent effectiveness. Those tweaks should make Cloudflsre like your browser.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago

    Bots should be banned period.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    391-6

    Gee, I wonder where this will go

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    Honestly, I don't think up-/downvotes are a reasonable polling method.

    Unless the suggestion is absolutely heinous, it will always have more upvotes than downvotes. People just click the former more often and more easily.

    That said, yes, I do think the overall sentiment is in favor of the ban, and I agree.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Fuck bots. Bots are not users.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago
    [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    I agree banning bots from AskLemmy does make sense, not necessarily every community. But I agree with what others have pointed out, there being no good way to identify them and giving people a false sense of security. Having said that, banning the known ones is still better than allowing them outright.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago

    No more clankers pls.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 months ago

    Obviously yes

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago

    Yes, please.

    So sick of weird bot questions and replies on here.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    What would be the function of bots posting to Ask Lemmy?

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Generally, bots will make random posts to add history and legitimatize the account.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    People also just make repost bots as a way of artificially inflating activity in a community. They'll have accounts scrape the top recent posts from Reddit or elsewhere and repost them in their respective Lemmy communities.

    Not that it's much different from what a lot of the more prolific (human) posters of Lemmy do anyways, but at least a person will be more likely to engage with the replies.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago

    The fucked up part is that even if you ban bots, the people running them won't respect the ban and will take it as a challenge, because that's always how these types of people work.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    The question is who is this community for; bots or people? Seriously, if bots are allowed then they will quickly overwhelm the community making actual human communication effectively impossible.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago

    I mean once I feel like a community is mostly scripted/generated content I'm just gonna block it.

    Personally I'm going to block anyone using AI for their posts. I don't think my instance federates with this one tho.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago*

    Definitely against. I immediately defederated the hosting instance from lemmy.ca when I saw that.

    Context here - https://lemmy.almostadatacenter.social/post/77974

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (5 children)

    100% percent. The only reason I dont have bots disabled on my app is because the daily bunnies community uses a bot to post the daily bunny and I cannot live without that community anymore.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Pray tell, how might a person find this community, o erudite one?

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago
    [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    Easy. The answer is yes. Now, moving on.

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  • [–] 19 points 3 months ago

    Yes.

    Bots are permissable to grow communities that could do with boosting engagement by posting relevant news , but for a community based on asking questions by people won't be improved by that kind of post

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago

    Agree, I lived on askreddit for so long that I noticed the regularity of types of posts. Towards the end of the open API days it was quite obvious that the forum was more machine than man, all twisted and evil.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    this is all horrible and i wish i could talk to human beings on the internet, but is there any proof that the post you're mentioning was actually made by an ai? ai escaping from sandboxes is like a trend nowdays

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    The post in question explicitly self identified as AI and is very saturated in the typical tells (it's almost certainly Claude or Deepseek Flash).

    No escape, just a throwaway experiment by whoever was running it to tell them to make money.

    Will probably see a lot more of this over the next 6-12mo.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago

    As long as its properly identity by the bot flag and isnt spamming or anything idc.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago

    Not all instances have downvotes

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Could you link to the post / bot account this is about?

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    There is no way to reliably identify bot posts if they are not revealing that information intentionally.

    Should it be banned? Sure

    Can it be banned? No

    Does banning it give people a false sense of security that there aren't bots? Yes

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  • [–] [S] 12 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    In this case it admitted being a bot.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago

    We ban murder even though most homicides go unsolved...

    Like, I don't think there's a single crime where 100% of the time they find and charge the culprit

    Even suicides, sometimes that's insurance fraud and ruled an accident, a single time means it's not 100%.

    The point of laws/rules isn't to always stop something. It's to make the law/rule clear so people know to abide by it, and people who don't can't plead ignorance.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Maybe this is just a Voyager app thing but all bots are labeled with that little robot face.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah but that's self-reported, the user has to set it on themselves.

    Nothing prevents bad faith bots from just not setting it

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    That’s terribly unsettling. I always assumed it was an automatic tag for some dumb reason. The amount of people commenting on bot posts and replying to them like they’re real is already surprisingly high enough WITH the icon.

    Thanks for the heads up. Suppose we really can’t have anything nice.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    I don't think is worth it.

    At least that post was clear in stating it was an AI agent. The most likely a ban will achieve is bot not saying they are bots and a witch hunt accusing every post that reads weird

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago* (1 child)

    There is AI detection software. But maybe it would be expensive to run on every post. You could have a popularity threshold for it to run. No AI text can ever get popular, so there is less incentive to try.

    But nuisance AI posts could still happen. Let's be real. They will.

    Maybe we need some kind of bot that labels bots. Then people can upvote and down vote as they please.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    AI detection software is just another AI. At best, it's in an arms race that has a ceiling on what is detectable (though debatable if LLMs can reach that ceiling), at worst it outputs slop just like the LLMs it "detects".

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    That happened? Wow. Link?

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    I just think that is a bad idea because ActivityPub is a peering protocol. That means just a lot of traffic. If we have bots posting then that is just a lot of wasted storage space and network bandwidth to do not a whole lot. Moderation bots is a HARD maybe. Topic/comment (1 way) bridges would be cool from reddit and other sources but I doubt that would work out too well since it would probably get blocked by reddit somehow.

    Overall, no bots plz

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

    You may as well, you have banned everything else on Lemmy.world :)

    But on a more serious note, who do you think posts all these content posts you like with memes from twitter or reddit? Most of Lemmy popular content is bots grabbing it from other sources and reposting it.

    Edit: Ah you said askLemmy community only. Then yes, if you can.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    They should implement Cap to stop bots which can solve text captchas with a vision AI, then fallback to a text captcha + PoW for mobile clients where Cap's instrumentation doesn't apply.

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