While I agree that plane travel needs to be reduced, and trains should be prioritized, most people typically take a plane less than once a year. The problem isn't Joe Schmoe taking a vacation overseas with his family every once in a while, it's the millionaires and billionaires taking flights every other day on their private jets.

Planes are similar to income inequality in that a (relatively) small percentage overwhelmingly use services wastefully

Almost 90% of the world’s population doesn’t fly at all in any given year. In the USA 12% of the population takes almost 70% of flights. In France 2% take 50%.

American Airlines report 87% of its customers fly 1 time per year which accounts for 50% of its income. The other 50% is accounted by the remaining 13%. There is a small contingency of the population that basically flies almost every single day

To put it more simply roughly 1% of people taking frequent flights account for about 50% of aviation emissions

Normal people should continue to be allowed to have their once every decade trip to change the endlessly drudgery of their working class lives for a week (even if much of that is not an actual vacation as much as stuff like visiting a home they’ve had to move far away from for employment). Once again blame the greedy selfish people that hedonistically overindulge at the expense of everyone around them.

If you want to get angry at an entire industry that is extremely destructive and genuinely has no point other than excess look at cruises. Just go to a fucking hotel/casino on land, 99% of the experience and like 5% (if that) of the emissions

You don't know enough about boat building if you think a modern sailboat is a good idea ecologically. Boat building uses nasty chemicals, very harsh solvents and produce ginormous waste. A modern sailboat has a gigantic environmental footprint. I have a 50 year old sailboat (with a modern outboard) but I never try to fool myself into thinking I'm making a recreational choice that's good for the environment. I'm just out enjoying the day and trying not to think about the bottom paint poisoning the lake, the microplastics sloughing off the oxidized gelcoat, and the impact of the fire retardant the textile industry dumps into all the fabric I'm relaxing on, to name a few. Nice way to spend the day though!

I think I'm on-board (heh) if its specifically /c/fuckprivateplanes, but commercial is apparently pretty good, averaging an equivalent of 100 miles per gallon (42.5 km/L) per passenger on a full flight. Yea, it's not better than a train, but it is significantly better than driving a typical ICE car to the same destination.

Planes offer transportation that is unmatched by other means. Also most humans don't travel by plane and the one who do are not regular flyers as in every day or every week like rape transportation. There are very few people in the pamner wh ok travel by plane all the time. Maybe those people should reconsider their choices as commercial airlines have democratized to a degree the ability for the masses to travel instead of just being a luxury just for the rich and ultra rich. The Elons of the world should definitely travel less by plane or plain out disappear from society but long distance travel by plane I think is a marvelous thing of the modern era and their impact on pollution is minor in comparison to cars. Maybe r restricting plane travel to big planes moving lots of people over hundred or thousands of small plains with few people aboard that coud have taken a regular transportation plane

I'm just sick of listening to rich people whine that they can't afford first class plane travel and lecture me about how I'm a planet destroying asshole for driving an ICE on the weekends and I need to buy a 60K EV.

And also it's 'not travel' unless you're going to another continent.

I live near a small airport and I would gladly join /c/fuckplanes

I cannot fucking stand it. These little private planes the rich folks fly, just for fun, are so loud and distruptive.

the problem is, it isnt your average commute, people rarely take many flights in one year unless you were going on vacations for months at a time, plus theres a long process in getting a passport if you havnt gotten one before, or havnt renewed in the last 10-15years. many people seem to fly to countries, states for specific conferences(tech, stem, research), or business meetings, likely make up most of the flights.

I mean, I guess I could fuck a plane, but helicopters are so much sexier.

Living without high speed rail is hard. Having family spread among several states or 8 hr drives away is hard - especially with young kids. As a result we take 1 hr flights.
I think in this instance promoting high speed rail is preferable to shaming plane travel

I would gladly take high speed rail if it was as available as Asian countries.

I get where you're coming from, and I do agree to an extent, but on the very rare occasion I want to and am able to travel to another continent I don't want to have to spend months travelling by boat to spend a week or two at my destination. I love trains. The US has shitty train infrastructure but I still kinda want to take a train on my next vacation.

Agreed. Although "flying" is fun, traveling by plane is not by any means. Trains are a far better option where you can walk around and there isn't so much security theater.

You’re wrong. Have my upvote.

The issue with cars is people abusing them instead of relying on public transport, where it would be cheaper and more convenient, but some people pay more for the extra comfort, which is seen as wasteful.

This snowballs into urban planning centered on cars, which creates a pretty bad incentives loop.

On the other hand, planes are a necessity for some business travel, and a nice way of visiting the world once per year. Yes, some people abuse flight, but it’s a non issue overall.

Planes suck, but we all know they're inefficient and the experience is terrible. Most people would rather take a train on most trips.

Cars though. People still defend cars. They kill more, too

Another unpopular opinion, in reply some of the sentiment in the comments: You don't have to be a heavy polluter to be conscious of your impact on the planet. The biggest polluters care the least anyway. Laws can make a difference there but also normalizing eco-consciousness and marginalizing those that aren't.

They do, to an extent.

Some journeys it makes sense to do by air (spending a month or two on an ocean liner from, say, London to Sydney would not be an alternative to a <24-hour flight), though short-haul flights on routes connected by more sustainable alternatives (such as rail journeys of less than 8 hours) should be taxed extra, and revenue should be spent on building out high-speed rail, night trains and sea crossings where these can eliminate short-haul flights.

The current arrangement, put in place after WW2, does the opposite: jet fuel and air fares are tax-free, while land transport is taxed.

People don't usually take a plane to a grocery store.

Commercial air travel is very efficient. You just see the propaganda here about hating the rich and conflate it with private.

What is there to discuss and post? Just pictures of planes?