Rich people think this way for everything
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Obviously never used AI. How it really goes is that you ask for a cheese pizza and after you spend hours and a bunch of money on tokens, you get an onion and peanut butter pizza with no cheese and you go, "Fuck it. Close enough."
You forgot the part where they steal the pizzas from other parlors to sell them as thier own.
you know, i've tried to defend some usage in the past, explaining my processes and the many steps of manual refinement, masking, and layerwork i put in to things, how i only run local models with open weights, how all my power comes from hydro etc etc
but as the tools keep evolving i've realised nobody else seems to actually care about the process. the pro-people just want as much slop as possible. someone likened it to a slot machine, where you keep pulling just because. that's where we are now.
I fully get where youβre coming from. I fully believe that you canβt vibe code correctly unless you already know how to code correctly. Iβm against the shifting paradigm of βwho cares what the code looks like aa long as it works properly and the LLM can read it quicklyβ bullshit thatβs coming out of it. I want to read the code and understand it too. I want it to be object oriented and not just dumb ad hoc methods everywhere thatβs 1,000 lines when it couldβve been 100 lines.
Now anecdotally, as someone who uses it for my main work and side project, I am still getting a lot of use out of it. Iβm learning new things at a faster rate than I would have before. For my side project, I am trying to optimize gear sets for a game and thereβs hundreds of millions of different configurations. The LLM Iβm using knows about my code and the project and what I need and is able to suggest other algorithms, like I was able to learn about Dinkelbachβs algorithm. I have it write up design docs with formulas and pseudocode implementation and I review that and it takes my comments into account. I treat it like a junior developer and ask for questions to make sure I understand what itβs doing. I think a lot of people arenβt treating it like a junior developer or intern and thatβs where problems come from.
Now, I wouldnβt be using it if it wasnβt free with my company, as this is more of βlearning/researchβ for my job.
And for my job, we have semantic memory and a ton of MCP servers setup that guide it through the right code and can do internal documentation search so itβs way more powerful than just using base Claude Code or whatever. It has helped me stay more on track with my projects as an ADHD person (even though Iβm medicated) by documenting what it does after it does it in a shared doc rather than me forgetting to do that because I run a command and log off for the day or something.
I do hate the water usage and energy usage thoughβ¦
Same, but you forgot, the massive stealing of intellectual property that no government fights against because they are scared to be left behind by big tech, the impact on learning (especially students), and the impact on little hands that had to moderate the NSFL content.
i refuse to use ml models for code. the copyright issues alone should be enough to keep them away from every public code base until the matter is settled. but also because local tooling is, frankly, shit. i have a bit of hope for text diffusion models, but i have a hard time seeing the situation improving because everyote is full in on cloud models now.
Imagine if you put that much time into a useful skill.
i do. i experiment with transformer and diffusion models like a few hours a month, tops. the result isn't interesting enough. the process of bending and breaking the models is the fun part.
Sounds like it's a very rewarding hobby lol.
yeah, it's a great way to see the limitations of these systems. just like ctf and ioccc.
I was being sarcastic, man. That sounds like a tremendous waste of time.
i will always take the time to explain things i find interesting to people. the benefit here is that i can now much more efficiently break large models as well when i come across them. helps me add anti-ai clauses to websites, cv's, and repos i publish.
Don't bother explaining to them. Their name is a misnomer, and they're an acerbic moron.
Thanks for taking one for the team then, I guess!
it's the curse of getting into something early and it becoming a global issue; i did a course on machine learning in 2014 and have tinkered since then.
like imagine getting into blockchain-based systems because of git in 2007. can't talk about that stuff at all now.
Surely you can see the damage it's doing to human creativity and intelligence, the economy, and the ecosystem as a whole.
oh i am anti as all hell. i have knowledge of how the models tend to work, how the training is done, and how reasoning and tool use is implemented. that's why i never use online models and check the datasets of local ones.
but like... the idea isn't bad. it's just that the way people use it is to steal information, burn through massive resources, and atrophy their knowledge. just like how the idea of a block chain, or a uniquely identifiable digital token, isn't intrinsically bad, but the biggest use was grifting.
a model trained on consensually acquired data, using only renewable energy, run locally, can still achieve useful things like quickly finding information from a loose query, doing bulk edits, making templates and placeholders, or offering suggestions. it's just that it would take longer and not be hype-worthy. so no for-profit entity does it. that's what makes projects like the ai horde interesting.
the best part is that the waiter stole it from another restaurant
This, but you don't get a pizza, you get a wheel of iron, colored in brown with glue on top of it.
AI would bring you a big cheese wheel with salami on it, and temu Ratatouille in the background, in the wrong scale. Because that shit is DUMB!
Somebody on the other app said that Cheese Pizza stands for CP and the AI thing becomes even more accurate
"Give me a cheese pizza in the style of a famous italian restaurant pizza kitchen. Use lots of cheese, tomato sauce, and bread. Cook it in an oven at a very high temperature. The cheese should be hot to the touch. The crust should be thin when the cooking is complete and have a few tiny black spots on it to show that it is crispy. Put the pizza on a metal tray and deliver it to my table within the next thirty minutes. Make no mistakes."
You forgot to specify Italian DOP cheese, now you have a pizza oozing with shitty Kraft/Lactalis pseudo-cheese.
How is this different from what anybody who hires or employs people do?
How is this different from what anybody who hires or employs people do?
Fun question.
- Most employees will someday no longer be day-one idiot employees. (conttasted with AI)
- Many managers take a class or something to know how to get results from their employees. (in contrast with many people given unlimited token allowances)
- Most employees are capable of a relationship amd even loyalty, if any is merited. (in contrast with corporate AI API vendors who only want to extract wealth)
I think most people leading a team would say "we built this". Personally, if I hire someone to build something for me, I'd say something like "I had this built" intead of saying I built it myself.
I think there should be a short form for "I had AI do this for me"... "I prompted" maybe?
People very comfortably say "Company made this", or "we made this" regarding a place they work even if not on the team if talking to someone external.
When people get houses built they often say they're building a new house, even if it's actually someone else doing every part of it.
There's a part of our language that lends itself to having the cause of a thing be responsible for the thing.
The closer it gets to being something you could have personally done every part of and another person is involved the more we tend to draw back, which is why the AI art language grates a bit.
My coworker said he's building a cabin up north: I have no uncertainty at all that he's approving a design and someone else is doing it.
I wouldn't say I put up a handrail on my stairs: it's plausible I could have, but I didn't (it's an awkward space with weird stud spacing, and I have older family I want to be able to rely on it, so I paid someone with licensing to do it right in 20 minutes). I don't want to take credit for what I didn't do.
With the art, only one person actually caused it to be made. But it also feels like taking credit for something more difficult than it was.
If I drop a bucket of paint off a balcony, I wouldn't say "I caused a giant mess to be made", but "I made a giant mess".
If I pointed at it and said "I have made art", people would assume I was joking, despite a surface similarity to some art. The amount of effort is disproportional to the claim.
I believe the "part of our language that lends itself to having the cause of a thing be responsible for the thing" (in the contexts you give examples for) is just the human desire to be included in what's happening, even if you shouldn't be. If we were honest, we would callout these inaccurate claims. But it is a component of social lubrication that we ignore minor inaccuracies. We allow white lies because the cost of pursuing them is greater than the value of uncovering them.
That is not the case with people falsely claiming ownership of things genAI has made for them. Presumably because we understand that the person "building their house" is not building their own house from scratch. And so it doesn't erode the foundation of architecture to allow that inaccuracy. Carpentry as a profession won't be written off because Business Chett heard someone say "anyone can build a home (by having someone else do it for them)."
This reads like a rebuttal but I'm not seeing it a contradiction.
If you don't provide the ideas, manage the logistics, supply the labor, test for quality, etc., then I wouldn't say that you were a part of making it. You're an investor, certainly, but that's not a maker.
Well see that's the thing about patent/copyright/trademark/etc laws that don't make sense to me. If it's illegal to copy someone's idea and sell it as your own how is it viable to ask AI to do something where it pulls all of the data from someone else's work and gives it to you and you sell it as your own. (Or use it to make something you sell) In general it would make sense that you would have to pay the person who's idea it was you used for each sale... Or that no one can own any idea, and patents/copyrights shouldn't exist at all.
AI eliminates software copyright.
Look at malice.sh
Not sure what malice.sh is, the link goes no where for me.
That said, as far as I knew a fully AI created work couldn't be copyrighted, but that doesn't mean someone who uses AI to make something and sell it can be used legally without purchasing it. I assume you probably could even make a copyrighted work that you used AI to make, so long as it wasn't fully AI created
Presumably this:
malus.sh - Clean Room as a Service | Liberation from Open Source ... Clean Room as a Service Finally, liberation from open source license obligations. Our proprietary AI robots independently recreate any open source project from scratch. The result? Legally distinct code with corporate-friendly licensing. No attribution. No copyleft. No problems.
The problem is that AI actually can do useful work, unlike what the fuckais want people to believe. It can do that. Except you don't get any updates or support, or help with fixing bugs. So not even sure how useful this is. But oh look how evil lol
All this shows is how stupid intellectual property, patents and copyright is. We're not talking about "high art" or ingenious inventions or stuff, it's all capital sucking up the work of workers and turning it into a commodity. A commodity that fundamentally is easy to copy. And copying isn't theft, it doesn't take anything away except the potential profit the capitalists are dreaming of. If you are taking away my copy, my ability to learn or enjoy culture, then you are the thief. Because most of the time there is no profit, only potential profit that would never materialize. We have a 1000 textbook variations about the same topic, because every one has their own copyright instead of collaboration and free resources. Pulp.
There are no artists posting on reddit, they are no genius comments or novels posted. Millions of books from an industry that produces slop. And LLMs managed to turn all that into something resembling intelligence which might be useful for quite a few things. And they don't even copy, they use machine learning to turn it into a model of the thing.
And suddenly everybody looses their fucking mind and pleads for more stringent copyright laws lol.
Fuck the AI bubble and environmental BS and do address the avalanche of societal problems coming our way, but copyright law is not the fucking answer. It's an oppressive and imperialist tool to collect rent. And it will make things much worse long term if there are no legal open source/weight AI models.

These guys sound like a bunch of assholes.
I mean yeah totally, it sounds comically evil lol. But I don't think this will even work out for them.
If it could work out to really cleanroom create new standard library stuff, then the "value of programming labour" has actually gone down very much. At least for these kinds of "solved problems". That would be the moral there, that we have solved certain problems and now have machine intelligence who can create infinite variations and adaptations to this. Which would be awesome, being able to rewrite much of the IT stack in more safe or more performant languages, or automatically optimize and improve. If that was possible already it would be a cause to celebrate. On to code bigger and better things.
But we're not even there yet, they'd have plenty of problems, bugs, issues and downsides with their "malus alternative". So I don't see a huge issue with this.
But the pizza was stolen from the store down the street
I prefer the term βbuiltβ when I share my vibe coded slop, thanks
*sarcasm
I definitely get the sentiment. But in my opinion it's closer to somebody going to the pizza shop, ordering and picking up a pizza and bringing it home to fam and saying "hey I got us a pizza"
I sometimes have LLMs make and spin up single us UIs for things. It's not uncommon for me to prompt "make it pretty" or " can you make it" pop " more" which makes me laugh quite a bit.


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