Treating your customers decently can lead to profits in the long run. What an insight. They should teach that at business schools.
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Being customer friendly. What a novel idea.
I feel like this is not rocket science here, this is like business 101.
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Make the customer happy
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Enjoy increased sales and revenue
N,o, it is economics and at some point over the last decade or so companies decided that the customer should be subjected to a constant shift of quality until it arrives at a level where it is the worst they are possibly willing to accept. Quality down profits up. Welcome to our new world.
This is the new "the customer is always right" attitude.
20 years ago, the exact opposite was said about Steam and they didn’t change much. People just got used to it.
No.
As a person who resisted hard 20 years ago, they earned it. I didn't get used to it, I found value. In cloud saves, in steam sales, in no pushy advertising, and so on.
As a Linux user over 20 years they also did what nobody else really tried. That matters a lot.
My husband remembers buying The Ship in a store, and when he went to install it out said he had to install something called Steam for the multiplayer. He was baffled and annoyed.
Now all the games we have save a few from GOG are steam.
They failed at first attempt with steamOS, but they learned the lesson, and came back swinging with years of preparation.
Yeah the steam "sales" that cost more than used physical games because valve killed them. How generous of Gabe.
The steam cult among PC gamers is fucking absurd. Valve did more damage to PC gaming than any other company on the planet.
If it weren't for national and local governments repeatedly suing them we wouldn't even have their meager 2 hour refund policy.
I see 0 reason to buy a used game over pirating it so I don't really see what was lost. In both cases the devs get nothing, and buying from someone else is a hassle, and having large physical media instead of just some files is also annoying.
If we didn't have steam we'd instead have the fucking epic games store or EA origin (or whatever they renamed it to). Just because valve isn't perfect doesn't mean any publically traded company wouldn't have been so much worse. And they also did plenty of actual positives with SteamOS, Steam Deck, being the first to push consumer VR with the Vive..
They haven’t changed much? They have like literally a million more games available on their store now.
The basic principle is the same: a DRM-enabled online store, and more often than not the only source for certain games, a monopoly.
DRM is not required by Steam. Developers choose to add it.
No difference from a customer perspective.
And with those resources they decided to make a huge long term investment in making PC gaming on windows optional, then even the worse experience. Don't see that loser Tim sweeny doing anything of that value... It's not exactly a monopoly either.. You can install any other available store on your pc, unlike consoles. More competition would be great but steams market share was earned in an environment that wasn't a walled garden.
Sure they didn't change much if you ignored all the improvements they made to the platform.
If they didn't the other competitors wouldn't be irrelevant today.
They literally cornered the digital sales market from the very beginning with HL2. It has nothing to do with "improvements to the platform". By the time other companies had the infrastructure to try to catch up it was far too late. If you wanted to sell a PC game digitally, you had to do it on steam.
So much ridiculous counterfactual revisionist history in this thread.
By the time other companies had the infrastructure to try to catch up
How many years did it take epic to implement a shopping cart for their store? It's so horrible they're scrapping the entire store and rebuilding from scratch. Almost a decade and they couldn't get the basics right.
Are they? Their returns policy is crap compared to GOG. Not sure how its even legal for them to refuse refunds just because you used a product for over 2 hours.
Remember when PC gaming was dead according to every outlet for two solid years?
I remember. I also remember it was started by Tim Sweeny when Gears of War was taking off. I also remember when Sweeny come crawling back to PC with EGS after Fortnite became BR king.
The key is being consistent and transparent. We got gut punched by the Steam Machine price, but it was an expected and transparent outcome. XBOX and Sony are so volatile that it's making Steam look like a saint. From laying people off, to constant price increases, to the disc situation. Both these companies need to chill tf out.
Add to this MS buying up all of these game studios to do nothing with them and then kill them because they're so inept.
Their actions look like a typical monopoly. Buy competition to destroy it later so you're the only one in business.
Valve's main advantage is they don't have to make up heinous policies in the quarterly game of "tug off the shareholders".
It's all been fucked by AI RAM and SSD (and still GPU) prices. If anyone tries for a next gen £1000 console, they'll be going the same way as Sega.
In case anyone’s not clear as to why: Sony has announced that they’ll stop producing discs and that they can take your content at any time for any reason.
Historically, Steam has promised they will never do that and will offer DRM-free (clarification: they’ll remove the Steam DRM) downloads.
Also, all of them have jacked prices up. Xbox, PlayStation, and Steam have raised hardware prices around 35-40%. However, Steam runs on PCs they don’t sell, as well as Macs, and they have a Linux distribution they provide for free called Steam OS.
Steam has promised they will never do that
Can you give us a credible source? I want it to be true, but I don't want my only source to be hearsay.
I have never seen anyone back that claim up, despite it being a very popular one to make. People like to pretend they own their steam games but until that gets enforced by law; you don't.
You don't own any software! All software is licensed, yes, even FOSS software. The only software you own in a traditional sense is public domain which not only is a vanishingly small portion of software made, but is also a category that is difficult or impossible for software to be made a part of, depending on the laws in your country.
This is no different for Steam vs. anywhere else you can buy games, even with physical copies. The only benefit of physical copies is that it's much harder to remove access to those games after you purchase the license, unless there is online activation or DRM.
Edit: I should clarify the only other software you own is the software you create or paid to have created. Then you can license its use for others, or not, as you choose. So MS owns Windows, and I own some small number of applications I've created, and other companies or individuals own the software they produced. But none of that has any bearing on games on Steam or anywhere else where you're spending money to get access to a copy of a game.
Tekinukly. Software might still come with a license, but that license has no teeth without some form of DRM. This is a stupid way to try justifying the DRM steam has. In all practicality, you own whats downloaded to your drives without DRM.
I already addressed that. Steam has DRM, because Steam wouldn't exist without it, and the physical copies publishers sold instead would still have DRM. There are DRM-free games on Steam - they don't require publishers to use it. Direct your ire where it belongs.
Maybe it is better expressed as degree of control you have over the data on your drive, disk, whatever. When you choose to buy a game from steam, especially if it is on a website like GOG, you are choosing to have less control over your data. With large companies like Sony moving towards anti-consumer practices, it isn’t wise to believe that valve would never do the same.
As Gabe said, piracy is'nt a pricing issue, it's a service issue. This problem has been addressed before and it will be again, if need be.
The ESA won't thank you for spreading their rhetoric, you know.
I would think that the ESA would be happy for free support of their opinion. Unfortunately, the law is on their side. If you don't like it, you have two options: try to change it or pretend it isnt true. One is easier, and I suspect both are about as likely to change things.
If you reach out to Steam support, you'll get a response like this.
(Not my support ticket, this was stolen from Reddit)

But who knows what measures are in place and if that would include all games.
Edit: I'm dumb and misread the convo. My response is about if Steam went away, you would still be able to access your games but the convo is about would Steam remove games from your library.
DRM is up to publishers, not Steam. Valve doesn't enforce or require it, and it's unlikely publishers would lift DRM from their games because Valve asked.
Steam does have a DRM mechanism - it's optional and easy to circumvent, but it's there
Steam itself is DRM
Not by my definition. Not in the same way as denuvo or dvd movie drm is.
It is in the sense that you can't play the games without it.
You can. Many of steam games you can just archive or copy over somewhere else and they'll still work just fine.
Wow it's truly insane how you guys will just blatantly lie to defend your precious gaben.
Go ahead and disconnect your PC from the Internet for a few weeks and see what happens to your "DRM free" steam games.
And you can get a crack for most DRM out there (nowadays, even Denuvo).
Being weak and possible to work around for those with sufficient technical skill doesn't make it any less a DRM.
Steam's DRM is clearly only trying to stop the people with average and below technical skills from installing and running the games outside steam, not trying to stop the people with higher technical expertise from going around it (and in fact if you use something like the Goldberg Emulator there are even more games which can be made to run outside Steam than just the "many" you talk about).
By comparison the no-DRM posture you see in with GOG is not only "here are the offline installers to download" directly from the page for the game in your library but even "CONTRACTUALLY game publishers cannot sell games here with ANY DRM".
"The rules are there but we don't enforce them" is a very different posture from "we make sure there are no such rules".
No, cracking the game vs just copying the downloaded file is not equivalent. How did you not see that? With copying the file it means the original file is already DRM free and does not require steam. So steam is just a glorified downloader and launcher in that sense
None of this affects the fact that, contrary to what the person above claimed, there are games on Steam without DRM.
There are many, many DRM free games on Steam.
Stop spreading this nonsense. There are arguments against Steam, but until they require DRM to be on their platform, this isn't one of them.
None of them are DRM free. Every game requires the Steam client to download, launch, and play. Stop spreading this nonsense.
Stardew valley is one example I know of. The developer didnt enable it so you can buy and install the game then copy the installed contents to other computers and run it without steam and play multiplayer all with the same copy. Steam can be closed or removed on all of them
Incorrect. DRM free games on Steam do not require the Steam client to be running to run them.
Try it before commenting.
Even if Valve promised DRM-free downloads if they go belly up there's no chance in hell they'll ever actually do that
I've heard it requires a DLL to disable steams basic drm, and it's been that way for 20+ years.
Why do you think that? Turning off DRM would be trivial and they might even end up being legally obligated to do just that either because of laws or because of how whatever hypothetical bankruptcy they go through might be structured. Never mind Valve going belly up seems highly unlikely to begin with. If it does ever happen and it happens in the way you describe, piracy will absolutely skyrocket and people will stop buying games online after they've had their trust shaken.
and that they can take your content at any time for any reason.
Its less that they can and more that they definitely will. The fact that they can has been fear-mongered and pearl-clutched over since the dawn of online sales.
Until now its been handwaved away as obviously nobody would actually shoot themselves in the fucking face like that. But then they did.
Valve has not jacked up prices: Their game prices have been consistently among the cheapest and the only reason their hardware is expensive now is because part manufacturers are mostly price gouging (lying about AI being the cause of ALL the increased costs, which isn't true, just like it wasn't entirely true with the bitcoin mining craze).
It's also worth pointing out that Valve has made massive contributions to Linux gaming (and Linux in general), which enables people to game on potato-spec machines and compared to other gaming platforms, they are far better than almost all of them except for GOG.
Well, if the Steam Deck hasn't gone up in price where you're at, you might wanna buy a couple. Keep them sealed, you can sell them for a profit later. Most places, they've gone up quite a bit.
The cost of making the Steam Deck has gone up. Valve can't sell them at a massive loss or they'll go out of business. That's not Valve jacking up the price, like I already pointed out:
Go re-read my post, because you clearly missed an important part
the only reason their hardware is expensive now is because part manufacturers are mostly price gouging (lying about AI being the cause of ALL the increased costs, which isn't true, just like it wasn't entirely true with the bitcoin mining craze).
Building a PC for yourself has skyrocketed in price too, blaming Valve is just ridiculous and anyone making that argument is just showing everyone that they are wildly ignorant.
Also, scalping is shitty.
Yeah, but if you give Valve a pass for jacking up hardware costs, you kinda have to give everyone else a pass. Otherwise it's just bias.
I'm biased toward Valve over Microsoft and Sony, but I try to argue in good faith. Not saying you're not, just that I try to hold myself to a standard. RAM, GPU, and storage costs are up so all game consoles are up. I don't give Valve a pass here.
No, I don't.
I can (and should) look at each one on a case by case basis, compare the parts, the actual costs of said parts, and make a determination from there. In the case of Steam devices, I do not lot believe they are price gouging - you can build a similar device that's going to be on par with or less expensive than their machine, but not by all that much.
How have Epic and GOG been faring?
Epic is run by an idiot.
GOG had its ups and downs, but I've been able to build a sizeable library there.
GoG appears to be around 2.5% market share as of November 2025. For contrast, Steam is around 75%.
Frankly, I don't give a shit about Epic Games. Tim Sweeney can go suck-start a shotgun for all I care, complete piece of shit human being.
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