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Canada finally reveals the results of its universal basic income experiment (ecency.com)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/canada@lemmy.ca
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[+] -33 points 1 year ago (19 children)

You're looking at one tax. If you look at ALL Canadian taxes, income tax, provincial taxes, sales tax, import taxes, fuel taxes, property taxes, health services taxes, business taxes Canadians actually pay about HALF of their gross income in taxes. We are f'n taxed to death in Canada.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This is an untrue statistic often trotted out by the Conservative Frasier Institute. Canadians think we're taxed far more than we are, because public opinion has been manipulated to believe so. Average Canadian pays about one third of income to taxes - creeping up as you move up taxes brackets

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I don’t wish to interrupt a Canadian discussion, but the US is similar - ~20% state and federal taxes, property tax, medical coverage, etc. are all going to be about 30% income, if not more, depending on location. So not unreasonable at face value without going too deep into the particulars of each.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Meanwhile, in south Carolina, I pay bring home about 60% of my income, I can't afford to eat well, I get absolutely zero assistance for food, medical insurance, or God Forbid basic income, and I am genuinely contemplating attempting to live in my vehicle in an abandoned parking lot near my work to save on gas money.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    UBI would also be good for the economy, as it stimulates consumerism. To economists, CEOs and politicians, you have to talk about the positive effects on the economy.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    We are f’n taxed to death in Canada.

    Bullshit

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/2025-06/canadians-celebrate-tax-freedom-day-on-june-8-2025-infographic-breakdown.png

    Id say giving 68k in taxes on an average Cdn family income of 158k is taxed to death, wouldn't you?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Fraser Institute is a conservative Canadian org. They cheat on their taxes and don't pay them because they're "a charity" and think no one else should pay taxes. Of course they fudge numbers like this and find extremes.

    If you do the actual math on your personal taxes, unless you are somehow extra ordinary, you'll find overall you're being taxed in the neighbourhood of 30%.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

    Show your work, please. I'm pretty sure it's closer to 25-30%.

    Edit: confirmed. I did the math. It's closer to 35% for most people. Including income tax, sales tax, and property tax.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    Many middle class Canadian pay 25% or more just in income tax. Then you have to add sales taxes, property taxes, and the rest.

    I would say he is about right.

    The top income tax bracket is over 50%. If you are very high income, you can pay well over 30% just in income tax (overall).

    For anybody that does not understand progressive income tax brackets, a top rate of 50% does not mean you pay 50% on all income. You pay nothing to a certain point, pay a lower percentage up to a certain level, and then it goes up on what you make beyond that level. On the 30,000th dollar you make, you might pay 25 cents tax. On the 200,000th dollar, you might pay 53 cents. On your first dollar, you pay nothing.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Oh no! Won't someone think about the highest earners! #clutchpearls

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Sorry to have not gotten back to this.

    I did not advocate for high earners (or for anybody actually). Your comment has nothing to do with mine.

    I made no value judgements at all, did not take a political side, and I certainly did not clutch any pearls.

    What I said, and tried to demonstrate, is that a statement (a mathematical calculation - not an opinion) was reasonably accurate.

    I do advocate for accuracy and rationality though. Fact free politics bothers me (no matter the source or the target). So, your comment would certainly make me reach for my pearls if I had any.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Thankfully BC doesnt do sales tax on food (even at a restaurant) and property tax is super cheap here. Ours is about $1500 on a 600k place. My tax rate is about 22-26% but with deductions it would be more like 20%, and spouse earns less and other deductions so 13% owing. But even at 20% there is no way another 30% is additional tax

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    So, I've done the math. Let's take someone with twice the avg canadian salary.
    They're making $130k/year.
    They pay about 29% tax. $38116/year.
    Let's say they own property in a HCOL area. Maybe $3k/year property tax.
    That leaves them with $88k left.
    Assuming worst case scenario - they don't pay mortgage or rent or anything and spend every penny. So they're paying about $13332 in sales tax.
    That leaves 75550 that they've spent before tax. Which is about 42% of their income going to tax paid, in total.
    Again. That's worst case scenario. In reality, they're paying a mortgage and/or contributing to an RRSP or even paying rent. All of which would substantially reduce that percentage.

    The idea that Canadians (on average) are paying 50% tax is just right wing propaganda bullshit designed to scare you in to cutting social programs in hope of getting a little trickle down action. Don't fall for it.

    For me, I'm paying about 35% tax, in total. Including sales tax, income tax, and property tax. And I think I'm far closer to the "normal" percentage most middle class Canadians pay.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    There are many other taxes. There are luxury taxes, payroll taxes, land transfer taxes, estate taxes, import duties, tariffs, and many excise taxes just as examples. There are a lot of “registrations” and tolls that are really just taxes. And the GST and often Provincial taxes are not just charged to the end consumer but in fact multiple times along the supply-chain in practice.

    If you live in BC, your property tax is likely more than you suggest. If you drink, your sales tax will be as well. If you rent, how much are you paying to cover your landlords income tax? And again, there are many other taxes. Again using BC, gasoline tax is 37 cents a litre of tax before you tack on the GST. That can be 50%. And the tax on cigarettes can be 250%. What is your total tax rate if you spend your $88k “after-tax” income on gas and cigs?

    Ontario slashed their liquor tax in half. Now it is only 30%.

    I am not sure that saying 50% is propaganda and then calculating it to be 42% is a total slam dunk anyway. But it is also far from the worst case scenario as you left a lot of stuff out.

    And, if it was 42%, you land on June 8 which is exactly when the Fraser Institute says tax freedom day is anyway. Those lying bastards!

    But I get your point.

    And I am quite happy with the way Canada manages taxation (though perhaps not spending). I am not trying to scare anybody into anything.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I don't get your math. Here in BC my property tax is about $1500 on a 2 bedroom condo. Maybe 1-2% of my income. With deductions my tax is about 13% since my wife doesn't earn a huge amount but even if single it might be 20%, there is no health insurance fee as its baked into taxes. We aren't paying PST on food. So your claim is my other 15-20% tax means I'm paying 30% tax on everything else I buy?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Assuming this was supposed to reply to my response (you're just responding directly to the main post FYI).

    Canadians actually pay about HALF of their gross income in taxes

    I haven't ever heard a number this big. Where did you get this from, and how does it compare to other countries?

    I don't disagree - we're taxed more than the US, but that comes with things like single-payer healthcare and higher regulatory enforcement. GST, for example, isn't something collected in the US meaning they only have the effective PST component of our sales tax, which varies widely by municipality to municipality, but is quite a bit less.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Single-payer meducal systems are objectively less expensive than the US's ludicrous system. Americans pay the highest per-capita for medical care in the developed world by a huge margin. Technically it's not taxes, but that's because it's directly feeding corporate profits. It's still effectively mandatory cost of living.

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