My dad w his drawer full of old road atlases: “WHATS UP NOW MOTHERFUCKERS!!?”
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Most people don't know how unbelievably fucked the world would be if Russia did this on a consistent basis. The entire stock market runs on GPS for nanosecond timing of trades. Shipping, trucking, trains, planes all use GPS. Sure, all of them CAN operate without GPS, but the delays would be enormous because of how efficient GPS is and how automated a lot of things are. Communications systems use GPS for timing to sync up. Farms use GPS for accurate planting and picking of vegetables.
Also, many power grids are reliant on GPS to synchronize power plants to keep the power in-phase.
The entire stock market runs on GPS for nanosecond timing of trades.
Funny you should mention this. At work we built a time delivery system on our fiber optic network (based on WhiteRabbit from CERN) with the national lab who generates our countries UTC contribution, and a stock market operator became one of our early customers.
This is true but it's not only GPS - it's the whole array of GNSS and associated tech.
Modern receivers SHOULD be using whatever GNSS is in view, including Galileo, QZSS, GPS, Beidou, and GLONASS. They SHOULD be internet connected to get authentication and trust certificates.
However, there are 10 billion pieces of GNSS receivers out there, so not all of them are modernized.
If Russia did this to the world they'd be declaring war on everyone. China wouldn't stand for it and they would likely act.
The thing is, China has their own GNSS called Beidou (pronounced like Play-Dough if I've been informed correctly). China has spent the last 10 years convincing non-aligned countries (Brazil and most of South America, many African nations, etc) to switch to using it instead of GPS. An attack by Russia would be "condemned" by China but would actually be a boon to them and their allies. Europe has their own GNSS, too, but it is much less widely used.
Yeah, like, what nation wouldn't see this as an act of war if deployed on a targeted and continous scale?
Lol as if critical systems don't simply trust gps if you are in a field where you actually need to have that accurate time you have fail over and multiple sources over multiple media. Spoofing gps will fuck with the "little" players that can't really afford to play.
they'd also fuck themselves
I mean, they have their own system: GLONASS. Their closest ally in China also has their system: Beidou. Many of their trading partners use Beidou or a mix of Galileo (EU's system) and GPS and any other system in view. They are jamming GPS over a wide swath of territory already, so they know how to handle it within their borders. The world economy would crash, but it would be less of a crash in countries allied with China. Also, Russia's economy is so fucked right now that a worldwide crash would just be a blip.
For the life of me, I don't understand why we as a species try so hard to make life worse for everyone.
I watched a video on this recently. Really interesting, especially how the researchers figured out it was a Russian satellite in a really high orbit. All it takes is a low-power burst to overwhelm the GPS network because it runs on such low powered, sensitive signals. They theorize the Russians were testing for very brief windows to see how well it world work. They could jam these signals anywhere over the Earth. Same for other nations too.
I watched the Veritasium episode on it just yesterday! The other theory is that it was actually being used for covert signals and the disruption was secondary.
Considering the impact of these tests, that doesn’t seem likely. You wouldn’t be sending covert messages in a way that would be so heavily scrutinized. I know it was a theory presented during the video, but that’s just journalistic integrity.
And ultimately, even if they were covert messages, now they also know they can disrupt gps
I think the point was less about making the messages undetectable as it was about making them unjammable. In order to stop their transmission, we would have to essentially shut down GPS for the entire EU. So you might use that frequency to send critical, must-have messages.
Especially once a second signal was noticed that was almost exactly the frequency used by the Chinese GPS system, as mentioned in the Veritasium video.
I thought that was the cover story. They deliberately used a channel partially in the bandwidth for some deniability. It isn't like they didn't know what bandwidth GPS used when they designed the satellite.
last I checked that channel was owned by private equity so take it with a grain of salt
All it takes is a low-power burst to overwhelm the GPS network because it runs on such low powered, sensitive signals.
The signals aren't very sensitive, quite the opposite, they're chosen because they can be very easily detected even at low powers. If you want to jam GNSS from the ground you don't need a lot of power because the satellites are so far away and their signal is so low. If you want to jam it from a satellite you need quite a lot of power, especially if you consider that the suspected satellite constellation has twice the apogee of the GPS constellation. Also you don't need a burst of power, you need sustained power to really jam GNSS, the suspected satellites only did bursts because they're suspected of just testing their system.
GPS satellites send at like 25W of power. Naively I would think you could make that 2.5kW on a satellite without issues, probably even more.
I deal with this every day with the dark fleet using four enterprise AIS tracking systems and can 100% confirm this is accurate about GNSS systems.
please by all means share this video
It was probably this one by Veritasium.
Yes we all watched that Veritasium video.
I've actively avoided Veritasium since the lightyear long wire video, when he made claims that were proven wrong by numerous other channels and then doubled down on them. Then he sold out to private equity and YouTube has a hard on for pushing their videos in to my feed regardless of what I was just watching. I go so far as to scramble in to the room to change it if I'm just listening to the TV from another room to avoid having YouTube add that shit to my algorithm harder
Claire Saffitz? Veritasium is next. Scary Interesting? Fern next? No Veritasium. Fern? Veritasium. Veritasium videos from years ago you've already seen, why not. That fucking light-year video again, fuck you.
That said, EVEN I have seen that video.
I mean, he did say he sold out to private equity cause he wanted to retire basically. His channel is basically now his retirement investment
His "light-year long" cable video did not make claims that were disproven. Veritasium correctly demonstrates the principles of electric field theory, fully as described by the Maxwell equations, and his follow up video demonstrates the effect much more clearly, because his first video was controversial for being misleading.
If you have an undergraduate level understanding of lumped element model of circuits, it's understandable to see why this seems "wrong", but that is not how physics works in reality when we look at the real analog world. If you don't believe me, feel free to DM me and I can explain better. I work in analog electronics for audio and rf circuits and studied device physics as well.
Trains don't need gps, do they?
I mean, neither do cars or planes.
Planes don't? That plane flying off course and getting shot down lead to GPS signals being made accessible to the public.
VFR pilots aren't even allowed to use GPS for primary navigation. Those don't fly bigger airplanes but visual flight is still taught and used to this day
Celestial navigation is still taught. Hard to use in certain weather conditions though.
It helps a lot, but planes were navigating the world long before the invention of GPS.
They also used to go off course and get shot down.
Well, you’ve not specified what shoot down incident you’re talking about but I’d argue the fault probably lies with the trigger happy air defenders not IDing their targets.
“GPS” would mean GNSS satellite systems like GPS, as well as terrestrial systems like AGPS and base-station-based triangulation. Given that modern train control systems involve transponders alongside the railway line, these can be used as well. Railway lines running through tunnels in particular would rely on non-satellite systems.
Russia and Iran stole a drone a few years back. They did it by jamming and spoofing gps signals
Words cant describe how much i despie terrorist "state" of russia
watch out, or you might be kicked off your instance :D
While certainly not all .ml users love russia, all russia lovers are in .ml.
Oft course thats not entirely true, but there are some weird communities there.
But my phone has GLONASS too?
Let me know when they can block my paper road atlas.
Oh no, not something to push people to adopt new block 3 capable receivers!
Surely they won’t just use $20 glonass or beidou receivers…
They're all susceptible to the same attack. It's "just" jamming.
For some reason I thought block 3 gps has some kind of rotating side channel bit selection method to resist jamming “perform more consistently in poor electromagnetic conditions” or some such…
would work if it's regular EM interference but when a satellite broadcasts across an entire spectrum of frequencies there's little more you can do to adapt.
How would you say that interference broadcast from satellite is different?
EM interference is going to hit lots of places across the spectrum and turn it into swiss cheese.
a satellite actively vomiting EM interference within a radio band takes away the cheese and tells you to fuck off.
I mean in a more technical sense. In what way is “traditional” terrestrial frequency jamming with wide band noise different when the source is extraterrestrial instead?
I have enough limited experience receiving and transmitting rf signals between terrestrial stations and between terrestrial and extraterrestrial stations that I’m very interested in how rf interference and therefore its mitigation is different when the interference source is extraterrestrial.


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