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[–] 25 points 6 months ago* (3 children)

They are extremely overpopulated in much of the US, in part because most of the natural predators capable of keeping their numbers down have been killed off and there has been a huge artificial increase in field/forest interfaces where they thrive. Huge amounts of starving deer abound and descend on diminishing native vegetation with a voracious appetite while generally ignoring weird invasive foreign plants. Many native plant gardeners are vexed by their tendency to gnaw native plants, trees and shrubs to death unless those are caged in and some got a taste for venison out of revenge haha.

Would be cool if we could re-introduce red wolves and the like to keep a lid on the deer without like half of the predators ending up shot or run over

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  • [+] 7 points 6 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    The west has maintained more of the larger, predators certainly. Not as much here in the east. Coyotes are invading and sort of acting in the now unoccupied larger land predator niche but given their small size they still don’t really take out deer in any serious quantity.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Same thing with kangaroos in Australia, though even I still find it a little too weird given they're a national symbol and all.

    The alternative is that they overpopulate, overgraze and proceed to starve to death. Which is no good for anyone.

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    [–] 66 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I rather eat that peaceful non-domestic wild animal, than the industry pigs down in the supermarkets cooler. Then we can talk about how fucked up the meat industri is. Nothing wrong with spending time and connecting with the nature, both the hard parts and romantic parts. Makes you more human.

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  • [–] 31 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Deer eats my tomatoes. My tomatoes are now part of deer. I eat deer, thereby reclaiming my tomatoes. Honour restored.

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  • [–] 22 points 6 months ago (13 children)

    Man, I hate white tailed deer. People think they're precious until they run straight into your car thinking they can just pass through it.

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  • [–] 17 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    Or until you're explained just how much damage they're doing to forest ecosystems by overbreeding and destroying native plant life. They're becoming a locust-level issue.

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    Overbreeding. They're doing what they do, what they're supposed to do. It's not their fault all their predators and 9/10ths of their ecosystem have been removed.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    It's not really about fault at this point, it's about solving the issue and bringing the ecosystem back into equilibrium. Like any pest, it's natural to put ire towards the group of organisms actively causing something to deteriorate, and thus sympathy goes away. This makes eliminating them much much easier for locals.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 0 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    God, what a load of shit this argument is. Animals have been seen killing for fun and sport as well as vengeance at times. All animals without their regulatory controls of predators will absolutely wreck their ecology. We don't breed incredibly fast. Without our modern society and tools we'd be lower on the chain as well. If another species achieved sapience like us they'd do the same thing too. The only complaint you can make is the number of people who seem complacent in just fucking things up as opposed to being better. Hardly makes us a pest.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    You can say the same about people. They problem does not change just because its not human.

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  • [–] 51 points 6 months ago* (30 children)

    Deer ARE beautiful creatures, but as a person who lives in the north I can absolutely confirm they are some of the dumbest fucking animals on the planet. They have exactly 1 reaction to any stimuli. Flight. Run like hell or ??die?? In my area they panic, run straight at headlights and cars screaming past.
    Really THINK about that. A robin, a crow, or an ant has more thinking power in an pea-sized sized brain.
    They're not going to be splitting the atom any time soon. Don't feel bad for them, just admire the one standing out in the field for its beauty and watch the F out on a country road.

    Venison is delicious. Sorry not sorry. If they weren't hunted we'd be drowning in them.

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  • [–] 25 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    To your last sentence, if we hadn't killed their predators we wouldn't have that problem.

    And venison salami is the best.

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  • [–] 20 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    To your point, I think if their natural predators were still around we'd also have a lot fewer children around.

    Venison salami IS delicious.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I'm here to represent the Wolf In Your Neighborhood Movement.

    With enough funds raised, we can deliver a pack of wild ass wolves to a neighborhood of your choosing. It might be yours, it might be that of a neighboring community.

    Our wolves are bred to the highest standards and are promised to be the most lean, fast, and aggressive wolves you can find anywhere. They're real assholes.

    They solve many problems such as:

    People who jog in the road Irritating pets left outside/unsupervised Irritating children left outside/unsupervised Too many deer Humans that lack common sense Humans that cannot run fast Humans that are taking out their trash Porch pirates Caribbean Pirates Door to door solicitations Religious folks

    If you're willing to donate money to our cause, we can have a pack of wolves into the neighborhood of your choosing in under 30 days.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Don't let your kids wander into the wilderness unattended and they won't get preyed upon.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Yeah, but all the inattentive parents can now successfully pass on their genes and social values... Which is why we're seeing a huge age verification push online right now. If those people or their children got mauled or eaten at higher rates then we wouldn't have this problem.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    Yeah, but... Why do we base a creature's right to exist on their intelligence as perceived by us? We have no idea what headlights look like to them or how stressful it is being a keystone prey species. I certainly wouldn't want to walk a mile in their shoes. Personally they're a massive nuisance and garden pest, but I understand we brought our* houses to them and not the other way around, so I don't hold it against them.

    They're not going to be splitting the atom any time soon.

    Oh, well actually that I do hold against them. Nevermind.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    Kind of true by how we treat humans as well, actually. Even the most progressive person seems to cheer for a Darwin Award from a MAGA member.

    Intelligence is repeatedly the one exception to the eugenics is bad rule, I know best about that.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Part of me wants the USA to have a venison industry so it’s commonly available in grocery stores, off the efforts of hunters.

    But, that industry would commit itself to forever existence and growth. If someone could be trusted to let that practice stop when deer population balances, or even work to ensure people replace farmed meat consumption with hunted, then it could be beneficial.

    But…yeah, that’s a big “if”.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I'd be happy if the DNR just let people in the butcher businesses handle the road kills, IF they agree to donate the meat to local food pantries.
    But yeah- fuck capitalism either way.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    No no, they have two responses, flight and freeze.

    If they only had flight they'd be somewhat more predictable. As it is, you can't trust them to even move when needed.

    And I agree that venison is fucking delicious. Love me some venison mince ragu, get rosemary in the meat. Mmm.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    I suppose that's fair, freeze wasn't dramatic enough for me to consider that.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    It can feel a bit dramatic when they're there literally a deer in your headlights, and you're on a dark, icy road in the backwoods, doing 80kph.

    And the motherfucker won't move.

    The only thing to do is to try to dodge them from whichever way they're coming from.

    And sometimes, it's not a 60kg deer, but a 500kg moose. And them mofos are almost as stupid, twice as stubborn and also have an aggressive mode. (Albeit it's kinda rare.)

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (6 children)

    and watch the F out on a country road.

    This is the internet. You don't have to censor yourself. You can say fuck here.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    What if they want to censor themselves? Don’t they have the right to do that without this stupid f’ing comment being commented all the time.

    This is the internet you don’t have to comment on things you don’t like, you can move along.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago*

    This is the internet you don’t have to comment on things you don’t like, you can move along.

    Ha, I get it! You're complaining about their complaint by doing the exact same thing as they are, ignoring your very own advice!

    I believe because it is absurd

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  • [–] 61 points 6 months ago (29 children)
  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (27 children)

    You joke, but if we can value the lives of one lifeform over another, why should that have to stop with animals?

    Just because it's harder to anthropomorphize tomato plants, that makes it okay to selectively breed them so their children taste better.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (19 children)

    It takes more plants to fatten up animals than if you just eat plants directly.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (18 children)

    I've tried grazing before, but I couldn't digest the grass.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (17 children)

    Industrial agriculture doesn't rely on naturally occurring grass, corn and soybeans are also used, and feed is grown for animals using similar methods as would be used growing food for human consumption. Relying on more sustainable methods would still require a drastic reduction in meat consumption.

    Also, the point I was responding to was, "What about the poor tomato plants?" If we're still pretending to do the "plants rights activist" thing, then I don't see why grass would be more acceptable than tomato plants.

    Note that in the US, animals are also allowed to be fed feces as a cost-cutting measure, in spite the health risks

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  • [–] -4 points 6 months ago (16 children)

    It's not about pretending to be a plant's rights activist, it's about showing the hypocrisy of where the valuing life cutoff is (i.e. cute animals).

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (15 children)

    This is the second time someone's said this to me recently, which is weird because of how obviously wrong it is. How is it hypocrisy if I'm making a choice that also reduces suffering to plants? It's just complete nonsense, the argument is either uninformed or bad faith, so it doesn't demonstrate anything.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago (14 children)

    You would understand if you still lived in reality.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (13 children)

    Lmao, stuck because your whole argument completely fell apart? Just drop a conversational instawin!

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago (12 children)
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (11 children)

    "In kind" wtf are you talking about? "In kind" would be refuting my arguments logically. The problem being that your position completely fell apart, so you can't.

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  • [–] -3 points 5 months ago (10 children)

    In kind in this context means I'm giving the same level of responses. Obviously, logic would be far outside that level.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (9 children)

    Well, you certainly haven't used an ounce of it this conversation.

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  • [–] -2 points 5 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    "If vegans care so much about reducing harm to animals, why don't they extend that to plants? This proves they're hypocrites."

    "But vegans do reduce harm to plants."

    "Uhh uhh uhh but if you used logic somehow it still shows uhh you're dumb"

    Ok dude.

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  • [–] -3 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    That's some nice strawman you pulled out of your ass. You should think about doing birthday parties.

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  • [–] 2 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    If that's not your position, I legitimately have no idea what it was, because you keep refusing to tell me in favor of these snipes.

    The reality is that it was your position, it got completely destroyed, and you're really, really bad at taking an L.

    Keep posting cope, because it's clearly all you know how to do.

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  • [–] -3 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    It's always so sad watching someone that thinks they're so smart fall on their face.

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  • [–] 1 point 5 months ago (3 children)

    More cope, as expected.

    I don't even know that you do think you're smart though. Like there has to be some degree that you're aware you can't actually defend your position, or you'd be trying to. I think it's more that you're just a sore loser.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Vegans like to call this a bad faith distraction, but when I was a vegan I went all in. No lettuce, no root vegetables, I only ate fruits (botanically speaking, seed-bearing bodies). The plants want you to eat those, and they're freely given.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    I think of this a lot too. Just because it can't think does not make its life should just mean any less. It does not want to die even if it can't conceptualize death, life or anything. But the fact that we can means we are the ones fucking up.

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  • [+] -3 points 6 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    You would be correct if not for the fact that consuming animal protein is waaaaaaay less farmland-efficient and more environmentally damaging than consuming plant-based protein... unless you're eating meat from sustainably-grown animals. Including carefully-managed hunting of wild animals. Factory-farmed meat, however, is very much not that. Most of the feed that goes to them is ALSO a mono-crop.

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  • [–] 36 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    “Precious”

    For people that don’t live with them or have to deal with their problems.

    They wreck all your plantings. Whatever ornamental garden you might have apparently tastes better than any natural plants, they will destroy them. You want a garden to grow your own food? Need a 8 foot fence around it, and that probably still isn’t enough. They jump in and wreck everything. They shit parasites and drop ticks everywhere. Dogs are idiots and eat deer shit, picking up parasites. Trees or saplings are just perfect to rub heads or horns on, they destroy the bark and kill the plant…again apparently because your plants are better to wreck than anything out in the woods.

    Yeah, I think deer are pretty cute, but fuck them too. Goddamn pests.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    i read somewhere that there was an area with an overpopulation of deer and they nearly turned this beautiful forest into a completely barren desert. then wolves were introduced into the area and things got better

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago

    With ghee (& optional touch of garam masala), balsamic vinegar, cayenne, pink salt.

    Maybe some fried garlic in a dollop of kimchi & mayo.

    Keep their numbers in control, so their food supply does not get over-run, so they keep on living strong as a species. Keep your health. Good all around, on the whole, so long as not doing it stupidly.

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  • [–] 29 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Pest animals such as deer are about the most ethical source of protein you can get in my country

    I'm all for eating feral animals whenever possible

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    What country are you from? Theres a few deer near me in the UK, and ive never even considered they could be pests. They look excellent to me.

    I cant eat them though, because I used to work in a meat factory and whenever we had venison to process it stank like fuck. Not sure if it does or if their supplier was awful quality, but its put me off forever.

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  • [–] 22 points 6 months ago

    I think that in Australia they're considered an invasive species, at least some species, as they're not native, breed fast, and devastate local ecosystems to the point they're seen as pests.

    In Europe they're just part of the local fauna, and population numbers are well under control.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago

    In the UK their population needs to be controlled otherwise they will be a pest.
    If left unchecked they will devastate tree populations.
    If I recall correctly there was an estate who didn't keep up with their deer culling and the army got called in with helicopters.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    I thought they were talking to the deer about eating the plants.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    What happened in the eight years since? The suspense is killing me. Oh dear.

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  • [+] 8 points 6 months ago (1 child)
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