I dont mean airflow as in rate of air moving through the fan, i mean it as in volume of air being filtered.
post
"Corsi-Rosenthal Box" sounds like it's some theoretical physics thought experiment, but no it's some filters and a box fan.
Be tempted to build one of those for my shop.
TIL about the Corsi-Rosenthal Box
It is by far the best air purifier you can get for the money.
I got MERV 13 filters to help with my kids allergies. Inside the house, perfectly fine, but once outside it's sneezing and runny noses. It's amazing.
Do you know how much power it uses?
Hi, electrical systems engineer with an offgrid solar system powering fans I tested with meters signing in.
The typical fans you can buy in consumer stores are about 100W on average a little less on low aroubd 80w a little more on high like 110-120w.
They make more energy efficient fans, particularly brushless motor DC powered fans meant for marine boating power systems are incredibly energy efficient and quiet but they're also incredibly expensive.
Also keep in mind consumer fans kind of suck compared to a true industrial fan which can take a lot more power for serious wind speed output which the Wikipedia for this device says improves efficiency of purification. You can get power tool industrial fans that run off dewalt tool type batteries that are low DC voltage but high amperage, they'll be more powerful than typical consumer fans too but run out of juice battery wise within hours.
I personally like the 10-15watt DC fans with pass through USBC charging for personal cooling but thats not what were talking about.
I looked up a 20 inch box fan on Amazon and it was rated for 67 watts. I ran it almost 24 hrs a day(kids loved to mess with it) and didn't notice it on my bill.
67 watts is 1.608 kilowatt hours per day. In California (one of the more expensive states for electricity), electricity costs $0.31/kwh. That would come to just under $0.50/day or $15/month.
Watts per hour isn't a thing. Watts is already a measurement of rate. 67 watts, running for 24 hours, is 1.608 kilowatt-hours.
The rest of your math checks out, assuming no hidden "distribution" or "transmission" fees (like I have).
Been aware of the general idea for a long time, but had no idea that strapping HEPA filters to a fan has a fancy name.
You have to cut some cardboard and use tape too. After when your solution beat every commercial solution you are allowed to name it, just to be able to shame corpo easily.
Could use those circular filters stacked on each other and a fan at the top. Name it my column.
Didgeridoo air filter is also tempting me now.
from huppakke:
Someone posted a link to Wikipedia in the comments, came across their names:
Richard Corsi, an environmental engineer and the incoming Dean of Engineering at the University of California, Davis
Jim Rosenthal, the CEO of filter manufacturer Tex-Air Filters
take what you will from this, but it's definitely not a stick-it-to-the-corp kinda thing
Now imagine that, but in your lungs. Yikes.
... mostly into your stomach.
I have great news for you about what happens to the contents of the stomach!
I totally did not realize how much real science was behind these things. I mean this design is so simple and obvious, it seems like something I would throw together because it just looks like it “should” work. And according to the research I just read they are very efficient and effective. Super cool!!!
I think the science comes in showing that it does actually work. Like, this is so simple of an idea that I would be skeptical of if it would work if I had had the idea by myself. I'm glad that I live in a world where, if I had thought of this and wondered "is this a good idea, or am I just being dumb for thinking something so simple could work?", I am able to go online and find information and guides on this and other diy filters
make sure you get merv 13 or higher for smoke. the filters get gross fast even with 8 but you can tell the difference when you breathe.
I have 2 to 4 of these going at all times and the 8s are full time and 13+ are periodic unless fire season.
correct me if I'm wrong but anything higher than MERV 13 has diminishing returns because of increased resistance. instead of going for increased MERV I recommend getting thicker MERV 13 because of their bigger surface area.
CR boxes rely on raw total air volume and increased ACH vs HEPA which relies on filtering as much air as possible on the first pass.
this is true. I pick up filters from shut down businesses and warehouses sometimes when people dont know what they cost and post them to fbm or craigslist and if they are higher than 13 I also put a filter for the bottom panel since I usually hang them blowing down with cords taped at the corners. even then they start to suck inward.
If you go for the 2” thick filters they breathe better and have more surface area.
Hey, I have that same rug
I have the same box fan
i have the same duct tape
Will all of you get out of my house?!?!
I'm just amazed it apparently took two people to think of taping 4 air filters together with a fan on top.
They may not have been the ones who first thought of it, but the first people to publish research that shows that taping 4 air filters together with a fan works decently compared to other, non-DIY filters (where "worked decently" means does a good enough job that it's worth doing if you want a filter but can't/won't buy or build a more complex filtering system, even if it isn't as good as "proper" filtering systems)
(Tangent: I'm reminded of the "Cox-Zucker machine", a random maths thing that Cox and Zucker made together because when Cox and Zucker met at university, they realised that their names, when combined in the traditional, alphabetical order, sounded "delightfully obscene". )
Curious why it's not 5 filters with some little toilet paper tubes or something for legs. Was it found that the fifth filter is diminishing returns?
Those start out white?? I think it's time to replace mine.
Ya, they were brand new filters from the store. I bought them along with the box fan and duct tape.
This apartment doesnt have a HVAC system (just wall mounted AC unit) so it's doing all the air filtration.
This is why I buy my HVAC filters in bulk 4 or 8 at a time and replace them every 3-4 months (less if there is smoke). The difference it makes in keeping the house clean is very noticable. I get very little dust accumulation except in my teens rooms because they leave their doors closed.
Filtering can be a rabbit hole.
Yes it can!
I was a little miffed when i went to buy the goods for this box because i couldn't get MERV 14 filters and had to settle for MERV 13.
I plan to make a frame so i can just slide filters in each side with the fan mounted on top. I'll have to figure out a means to create a nice seal between the frame and filters so the air passes through instead of around.
Post a new one for comparison.
Ok. I've been looking into this a lil and there are better options than a cr box.
Housefresh has been looking into this and they recommend the nukit tempest or luggable XL or another one - think it was a Canadian brand - as the cheapest total costs over time and lowest sound and most efficient purification. All of those use regular HVAC filters which cuts down on operating cost and are quite big which cuts down electricity and sound.
So recommend getting one of those for long term use, if you have the space for it.
There's also an open source tempest that you can use a CNC for and customize to your liking with a script. https://github.com/opennukit/Nukit-Open-Air-Purifier/tree/main/Nukit%20Open%20Air%20Purifier-W(all)%20v1.0
I have an unfinished project to make a nukit with a power knob.
I got a cardboard proof of concept working but need to make my mark 1 out of plywood or something else.
Now it matches the rug & walls, though
Funny enough I cleaned that rug after first moving in (apartment was pre-furnished) and it looked clean for a whole day.
I feel ya. My house was miles away from the evacuation zone of the PacNW fires a little ways back, and the filters didn't last the month. We wore masks with filters rated for smoke whenever we had to go outside, and sealed every external seam, hoping the firefighters could get it under control in time. Thankfully, they're the public servants that actually know what that phrase means, and to the enth degree. I trust every one of them right alongside our Nat'l Park service members (rangers, et al), sight unseen.
When this nation's collapse comes to your town, remember this simple rule, fellow US peeps:
Firefighters & National Park Service? Heroes of the people, through & through.
Cops, etc.? Shoot on sight (if that's your chosen theme for the apoc, ofc.) 😅
Christ i wish we could get these filters in au at non-arserapey prices
I read that as "our-SER-uh-pee" at first. I now have a new adjective.
have you heard of the Ikea Starkvind filters? they're a bit smaller but you can tape together as many as you want
Theres a way i bet. You just need the filter dimensions to match the fan on one axis.
Good job, Captain Lovell. That’s some Apollo 13-level engineering right there.
top 93 comments