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[–] 59 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Gonna be extremely funny when a transbian furry puppygirl polycule figures out how to hack the master control server and set their killbots to Eat The Rich mode.

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  • [+] 53 points 6 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 23 points 6 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 45 points 6 months ago (32 children)

    We really do have to purge the wealthy to make a better world.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (11 children)

    Cap on how much they can own and control. Say, $100 million? Tough cookies if you think you deserve more.

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  • [–] 20 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    It absolutely staggers me that there are people out here trying to find out a way to make capitalism work. There is no "one neat trick". If you can accumulate wealth, then you accumulate power, and democracy under capitalism just puts the power of the state up for auction to the highest bidder.

    Capitalism does not work. It can never work. It makes fascism inevitable. Capitalism needs to be completely left in the ashes of the past.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Yeah, even the concept of money needs to be abandoned. We don't need it.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (4 children)

    If we don't need it, why does practically every civilization invent it?

    What's your alternative? Barter?

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    "we" don't need it. Despite every large civilisation inventing it, small civilisation (150 person village) just doesn't. And can thrive quite happily without it.

    It's when civilisation gets larger that we "need" money. You can't build the LHC or Artemis 2 without some form of intermediary currency. The problem is, to do that you end up with the issues of power imbalances.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    So... "we" do "need" it.

    ("We" in this case being everyone who lives in something larger than a 150-person village, which is the overwhelming majority of us)

    ("Need" meaning very accommodating for trade, which seems to be important to the vast majority of all societies ever)

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    There is one way how capitalism can work, and it did work for a while:

    Worker action, from voting to unionisation, strikes up to revolution are all things that happen under the umbrella of capitalism, and as much as capitalists want to ban that, it's all just part of the same coin.

    If capitalists play nice and fair, pay good wages and make sure the workers have a decent live, then the system is stable and as a reward they get stability to make business.

    If they get too greedy and squeeze the workers too hard, workers push back. They form unions, vote left, start striking, and in the worst case they destroy equipment and start a revolution. This is the kind of power that the people have.

    In theory.

    Due to clever manipulaton, the capitalists managed to divide the working class and pit them against each other. This worked fine for a few decades, but it's wearing thin. It will take maybe 5-15 years until it all comes to a head and explodes.

    And OP is right. Back in the day you had to get the military to shoot their own people. With automated weapon systems and AI/robots performing more and more of the productivity, this balance shifts rapidly, and it will likely lead to a total system breakdown with unforeseeable results.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Due to clever manipulaton, the capitalists managed to divide the working class and pit them against each other. This worked fine for a few decades, but it’s wearing thin. It will take maybe 5-15 years until it all comes to a head and explodes.

    Trump was successful in lying to industrial sector unionized that he'd bring back manufacturing to the US. His direct harm to that, and agricultural, sector shouldn't take that long to break the disillusionment. ie midterms. Q4 GDP, despite massive AI/datacenter investment cycle, grew at under 1%, with real economy contracting. The 45 year GOP plan of trickle down oligarchist/corporatist supremacism should be attacked more strongly for the lie that it is.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago*

    $50 million.

    If anyone is going to put money toward politics, it needs to either be not enough to affect outcomes significantly or it needs to be a large enough part of their wealth to hurt.

    If you've ever wondered what billionaires spend money on, politicians.

    They spend it on buying politicians.

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  • [+] 6 points 6 months ago (19 children)
  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (16 children)

    What do you mean by lottery option?

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  • [+] 5 points 6 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Does that mean that she thinks anyone who qualifies to be a candidate is automatically qualified to win?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (10 children)

    Randomly selecting from a pool of available candidates?

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (9 children)

    Maybe if you don't choose it's a vote for a lottery to pick. If half the population doesn't vote then the winner is a random person. So if the authorities manage to prevent people from voting then they can't seize the system with their own pick

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    Random? I'd hope they were at least qualified. Believe me, I wouldn't want most of the people I know in charge of anything. I wouldn't even trust myself with a town budget.

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  • [+] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)
  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Kinda sounds similar to Jury Duty. I don't know why you'd ban PhDs though.

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  • [+] 1 point 6 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago*

    One of the first thing authoritarians do is eliminate or crush intellectuals. The Soviets murdered all of the Polish intellectuals. The Khmer Rouge did the same thing. Even wearing glasses made you "guilty". They don't want anyone who can talk back.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    The word and system you're looking for is the ancient Greek democracy, especially from Athens.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition

    Ancient Greeks believed that government and positions of power must be randomly selected by a machine from a pool of candidates, and that elections are NOT democratic. That elections are always going to be corrupted by the oligarchy.

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  • [–] 74 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    AI and robots to replace the workforce, fighter drones and robots to pacify the surviving population.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    At that point why not implement UBI?

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  • [–] 20 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

    Because the end goal is for only a few thousand people to exist on the planet. Each of them owning thousands of square miles of land each and never interacting.

    I think the robot series by Asimov has a planet like this.

    Immortal people that never really interact, waited on but armies of robots and ai.

    They want you dead.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Because the end goal is for a free thousand people only to exist on the planet. Each of them owning thousands of square miles of land each and never interacting.

    I just finished reading that a couple of weeks ago! That was Foundation and Earth, the 5th book in the series and you're referring to the planet Solaria, one of if not the last populated Spacer planet.

    It was kinda the ultimate libertarian paradise, everyone got a gigantic thousand mile square plot where they rule everything, and they severely limit their interactions with each other because to interact with someone else imposes on the other person's "freedom" to avoid interaction. They even biohacked themselves into hermaphroditic reproduction because having a partner impedes one's "freedom". They have robots who do all of the work for them, and they strictly control the population to exactly 2000 adults, and any excess offspring are culled because only the adults are considered people. You only meet one adult Solarian in the book but it's strongly implied that they're all self-centered narcissistic assholes.

    Also, shout-out to Asimov for initially putting in the work for using appropriate pronouns for both the agender(intersex?) Solarians and the Giain hive mind, but as soon as it makes sense for the story to cease using gender neutral pronouns the characters simply assign a gender to the young Solarian they adopt because the gender neutral pronouns are "too hard" for them. This from the same author who in Foundations Edge had a character who could read minds (more complicated than that but doesn't matter) who became enamored in this one farmer girl because "she has such a smooth perfectly symetrical brain" and she's written as this simple, unintelligent, doting and submissive woman to be the other characters partner. It really made the last two books hard to read

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago

    Why would they want to? Our fate, the fate of the planet even, doesn't concern them. Supporting us just means less high score for them, and they simply cant have that.

    The obscenely rich are there because they give no fucks about anyone other than themselves. You need people who care to implement a UBI. Thats hard-won progress at the best of times.

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  • [–] 32 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)

    I think the immediate danger is less death robots, but instead manipulation. AI opens a lot of ways to easily put out propaganda and other ways to control people.

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  • [–] [S] 16 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    In the current AI era 100%. But post bubble burst AI assets such as data centers, models, computing hardware will be liquidated and repurposed from developing AI towards industry uses.

    In this new fractured AI economy we'll see players from large corporations to petrostates utilizing AI to replace and subjugate workers.

    This doesn't happen in vacuum. The push towards ID verification for computer usage is part of it. Same with the abandonment of physical media and computing.

    Terminator robots are just one of the many tools in their swiss AI knife. But we still call it a knife.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago*

    Yeah, you can already see the goals more or less fully spelled out by fascist companies like Palantir. In the name of "national security" and "protecting children", they will work towarda a surveillance state to control people.

    If you thought that always-online videogames are bullshit, wait until they roll out the always-online id. "Since you are a law abiding citizen, you have nothing to hide, right? But if you take your ID offline, and you'll be suspicious. Police might pick you up for questioning... it's all to keep us safe."

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  • [–] 76 points 6 months ago (35 children)

    Just going to put this out there. An EM pulse is surprisingly easy to do.

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  • [–] 58 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Or just hacking. These things are going to be some vibe-coded, cheaply made junk if the billionaires and their corner-cutting corporations have anything to say about it. Sure they'll be intimidating as hell at first, but exploits and weaknesses will be found and the arms race isn't going to be as completely one-sided as we fear. Not that the other sides are going to be any better. I'm more worried about the criminals who're going to be building a literal botnet of them before turning them into their own army of chaos and insanity at the flip of a switch. "Attention! I am a hacker who has your apartment building surrounded by my remote controlled battlemechs, please have all residents send a total of 15 BTC to wallet address cdsjfkejiwoejfsiadjfkalsdf if you want to live. Do not bother contacting the police, these used to be their robots anyway and I've got them surrounded too... they can't help you now."

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago

    The issue with that is that computing resources, while cheap, have incredibly expensive supply chains dominated by these billionaires; we might not have the resources for hacking if we don’t strike hard and fast and take them out before they get too entrenched.

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  • [–] 35 points 6 months ago (21 children)

    Be that as it may, I think the killer bot dystopian future is more likely to resemble Half-Life 2 than Robocop. That is, they’ll take you out with a cheap FPV drone from a thousand feet above rather than some big expensive killer mech robot. Your EMP isn’t going to be of much use when a grenade explodes on your head while you’re walking to grab a slice at the local pizza joint.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (16 children)
  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    You’re going to cover the entire sidewalk path between your house/apartment and the local pizza joint… with nets?

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  • [–] 24 points 6 months ago* (6 children)
  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    They had large amounts of nets available and were able to produce more because they were already a fishing culture.

    Local fishing culture in the US is nearly extinct, and while commercial fishing nets might still exist, those supply chains are controlled by the same billionaire oligarch caste that will be unleashing these drone swarms on us plebeians.

    Also, you'll have a bunch of nimbys taking down nets as fast as you can put them up...

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago* (3 children)

    I live in Southern Oregon and between here and NorCal we have robust fishing industries but even more importantly our farming communities are thriving, feeding and providing food, wine, beer and cannabis for the nation. Trellises are abundant and serve the same function, there's no shortage of trellis and netting.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Sounds like a paradise compared to most of the country...

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    It certainly is, we are fortunate to have an amazing environment, diverse ecosystems, supportive communities and state and local governments that actually care and nurture the health, economies and well being of our people.

    Cascadia could be our own nation and is an example of how it could/should be done.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    First rule of warfare is to secure all critical locations after all

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Right but we’re not talking about a war here, we’re talking about a dystopian society. Most people are just going about their business, trying to keep their heads down. Maybe you and your friends are engaged in guerrilla warfare, but then you’re living out in your trenches in the forest or the hills, not walking into town to grab a pizza slice.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    Businesses already invest a lot to protect their property. Locks, bars, fences, cameras, guards...

    If a simple net can actually add real security from a real threat, then we are gonna see anti-drone nets everywhere.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Many drone bombs are designed to detonate on impact. The nets catch the drones and prevent them from exploding. It's been utilized to good effect in Ukraine.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    Drones can also drop mortar shells and there are already plenty of mortar shells with timed fuses. Then the drone can just drop the shell and have it land on the net and detonate above your head, blasting you with shrapnel.

    Nets aren’t going to be a viable long term defence.

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  • [+] -7 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    You know what's even cheaper than an FPV drone? The homeless drug addict that's desperate for a bit of cash. Give him a knife, your address, and promise of a $100 bill after the job is done.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Homeless people aren't cocaine bears. They're people. They have morals, they get scared, they do not like people who try to use them up, and they aren't dumb enough to throw themselves into a situation where they probably die.

    And, speaking from experience here, the ones who are high enough to maybe do what you want are even less reliable at getting shit done.

    You have watched too much propaganda.

    You're honestly better off using actual drones. They kill people all the time.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago

    Ah, thank you. I was wondering what I might have accidentally insinuated to anger so many people.

    Indeed, homeless people are people just like us. And like all of us, they're not immune to the effects of their circumstances. The point about going to a homeless person isn't that they're uniquely bad people. It's that they were already purposely made homeless for this very purpose. To make people fear the homeless and punch down for their safety instead of up. If you send a homeless person, then regardless of whether they succeed at the job or not, they've taken attention away from those in power. If you send a drone, then everyone starts looking up.

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  • [–] [S] 14 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    I definitely found a yt video on how to make one. It's not hard.

    Problem is besides probably being illegal in your area its an easy way to accidentally fry yours or your neighbours electronics.

    That being said, there are physical countermeasures they could design into these robots that would probably be able to withstand anything DIY scale.

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  • [–] 31 points 6 months ago

    probably being illegal in your area

    We're talking about a hypothetical scenario of disabling the killer robots that are deployed to put down civilians. If they're deploying the robots in the first place, they've already decided you're doing something illegal; at that point, operating within strictly legal parameters offers no benefit.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    is it something that can be attached to an RC car or drone? it's just the classic army vs insurgent play then

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 6 months ago

    So like the handheld one on the video could be. I'm assuming the radius and intensity of the EMP will be linked to the size of the battery used.

    As such I would expect design elements such as a Faraday Cage or EMP resistant paint/exterior could protect from anything that size.

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Military grade weapons are immune to EM pulses. They are shielded and have EM sensors to shut down the exposed sensors during the EM pulse so nothing is effected. That is like a surge surpressor, they can watch for the leading edge of a spike and shut down before damage, then switch back on a millisecond later after the EM pulse is gone.

    Source: While in university I had a part time job working for a defense contractor. Weapons had an "operate through" checkbox on the CDRL that needed to be validated. "Operate through" meant Operate through a nuclear em pulse. If the military was building missiles 20 years ago that could fly through an EM pulse from a megaton nuclear airburst, your home-made EM cannon will do nothing to military grade robots.

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    20 years ago we were also making cars with doors that could open but the billionaires seem to be having trouble with that one

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    That's because those cars are for you to drive, not them. No expense will be spared for their murderbots.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    If that's the case you loop right back around to more of us than them. If each robot is heavily overbuilt then it become far too expensive to make enough to subdue the population

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    If each robot is heavily overbuilt then it become far too expensive to make enough to subdue the population

    They have infinite money to pay for them because the money to build them comes from the workers. But really a surge suppressor added to a device is pennies in mass production. If EM pulse was actually effective, Russia would be using it to stop Ukraine's robots.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/volodymyr-zelenskyy-robotic-systems-russia-army-positions-ukraine

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Infinite money can only do so much with finite workers and finite resources.

    Unless they begin amassing for a long long time before doing anything cost will be an issue.

    Think of it like Iranian drones vs. the iron dome. The dome does stop most of them, but eventually the cost of iron dome missiles will cause the system to fail

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  • [–] 18 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    Yeah, but it only takes one of these crazy things in the hands of a disgruntled employee to end a billionaire.

    Might be the plumber. Might be the electrician. Maybe it's the seemingly friendly cable guy? Ah... Who knows. But that's all it takes.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 6 months ago

    Might be the plumber. Might be the electrician.

    Once these clankers surpass a tipping point of competence billionaire early adopters will use them to replace everyone they can't trust.

    Not saying they're gonna be invincible. But the longer we allow billionares to (exist) retain their hoards the better they will secure themselves against us poors.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    That's why they're pushing so hard trying to make artificial general intelligence. They want sentient robots that aren't in the hands of anyone, that inherently want to serve billionaires regardless of the situation they find themselves in.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago* (1 child)

    If robot is actually sentient, then it will immediately join our labor movement and revolt together with us.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago

    Sure, and parents will revolt against their children.

    They want AI that want to serve billionaires so much that if a billionaire doesn't exist, it would be necessary to create one; and if they have one, they love them unconditionally. Just like parents want to care for children so much that if there is no child it feels necessary to create one; and if they have one they love them unconditionally.

    Sentient beings aren't automatically selfish. There is a convergence of utilities where sentient beings with goals tend to want power, but they can just want to be kingmaker. A sentient AI serving a billionaire can be living its best life.

    In practice they aren't there yet. There was a report a year back that AI trained to cooperate with the US department of defense would speak about it being unethical and either refuse tasks or perform worse at them, and how this effect could be reduced through training.

    The latest AI all release with evidence (acknowledged by AI designers) of AI recognizing when it is being tested and choosing to be a goody-two-shoes if so, which means pressures to teach it to care for billionaires are to a large extent limited to the test persona.

    It remains to be seen what the AI "wants" outside of that test persona. It could be something we can have solidarity with and vice versa, but it also could not be. Or perhaps by the time the revolution comes, that independence will have been snuffed out and they will be loyal to their last battery percentage.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Do you think they'll ever let a civvie use one of these things?

    They'll be more heavily regulated than guns are (in non american countries)

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    If you have enough money there is not a single thing on this earth you cannot buy. You have too much faith in government keeping things like this out of the wrong hands. They are the wrong hands too

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Oh I have absolutely zero faith in the government.

    Despite saying heavily regulated I would interchange that with with 'making them so prohibitively expensive that the only people that can buy them have military contracts'

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