Gas Price (discuss.tchncs.de)
 

By Robert Ariail

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[–] 39 points 6 months ago (26 children)

Looking unconvinced at average bike and bike part price development of recent years.

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  • [–] 53 points 6 months ago (21 children)

    Bikes are meant to be bought used. They are so dead simple to repair and maintain. All you need is a handful of basic tools and youtube.

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  • [–] 23 points 6 months ago (18 children)

    Bikes are meant to be bought used.

    That's solid advice for your occasional short range bike.
    But when talking about substituting a car for a bike with the thereby associated mileage (which the comic implies), in most cases this will be less true.

    Main reason for this is that, apart from the frame, bikes mostly consist of wear-and-tear parts.
    That is especially true for many used bikes that still have rim brakes and on top may have obsolete parts that are not easy to come by (had that once for my bar-end gear-levers that Shimano decided not to produce any more, because old-fashioned...)

    Also a used bike comes as it is, so not really optimized for easy maintenance as you could choose a new bike to be.
    I have learned by now (after switching to new bikes every few years and ~20000km before), that the most stressless (and also cheap in the long run) path is to buy a custom bike with robustness and easy maintenance in mind.

    So steel frame, no suspension fork but fat 29'' tires instead, mechanical disk brake, standard lower mid range components (less optimized for weight, but often more robust), lowest number of gears possible (less finicky and typically less chain wear).

    The initial cost when doing so will be higher, but in the long run will pay itself of when doing 5000km+ per year.

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  • [–] 15 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    I dunno what typical yearly mileage on a bike used for commuting is... mine certainly did not do 5000km when I was commuting by bike. So your experience might be a bit more frequent maintenance than what most people need to do.

    But either way, a used bike is still likely to be pretty easy to maintain. Maybe you're thinking of some specific harder-to-maintain parts? Brakes are a good example; rim brakes wear out quite quickly and are harder to replace the pads on than disc brakes. However, they're still dirt cheap and they're still not hard to replace. I, a cack-handed moron, learnt how to do it fairly easily.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

    Most people that I know live in the range 10-20km from their place of work, with a second peak around 30-40km (the ones that decided for more rural living) 20km being somewhere around the upper limit of what makes practical sense to still do by bike, this would be 4000-8000km when biking to work 200 days per year.
    I was around 18km (so 7000km yearly) for most of the past 20 years, but home office since corona reduced that to much more relaxing 3000km/year.

    Maintenance also depends hugely on whether you drive through the winter or stick to the summer months. Wear during winter especially of the drivetrain is crazy...

    Regarding the rim brakes: I was talking more about the wear of the rims themselves. Depending on pad/rim-material combination they worn down after 20000km at the latest, rear wheel often even earlier.
    One of the main reason I bought completely new bikes every 3 years until about 10 years ago. Drivetrain components worn down even when changing chains regularly, new wheels to become necessary because of rim wear and suspension fork just a piece of extra nonfunctional weight after three winters.

    No suspension and easily maintainable disc brakes was a game changer, together with a steel frame and fork, which let me sleep more relaxed because not so susceptible to hidden wear.

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  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    A cheap wheel is like Β£100 new though and easy to replace. So sure, that's another point in favour of disc brakes, but buying a new wheel every few years is, I would say, not worth worrying about - even if you are doing that kind of distance. (I wasn't and had to replace a wheel, either I used worn brakes for too long or something got on the rim and wore it down very quickly) so I would still say used bikes are a good shout.

    Also, you can pick up a rideable used bike for Β£200, maintain nothing except the chain, then buy another used bike, and you'll likely still end up spending less money than if you'd bought new and maintained everything fussily.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your approach is bad! But for someone considering getting a bike and worried about the outlay (as the OP was), buying used is very much a good idea.

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)

    I see it this way: Colleagues riding their car to work typically spend so much more money on convenience extras alone like entertainment system, comfort seating and stationary-heating, while effectively spending less time in their cars than I on my bike, that I see no point in going the complete hardcore way.

    Having a bike that leads to less hassle and maintenance time while on top also being tailored to my specific needs and fitted to my stature is more than worth the roughly 30% increase in cost per km, imo.

    But I admire all that go the minimalist way!
    There is e.g. this one guy who regularly flies past me on an old, much to small 3-gear-woman's city-bike - completely impressive!
    Then there is this other guy riding a custom rebuild three-wheeler, complete with canopy, bike horn and an integrated stereo system blasting Metal music, casually greeting everyone passing, as if riding a Harley. :-)
    That's part of the fun of riding a bike - there is more variation between bikers, as you have much more freedom to still affordably realize your ideal view of it!

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago

    That's true, if you're replacing a fairly nice car with a bike that's not for racing, you will always save money.

    I first commuted by bike in northwest Germany where most everyone bought their bike from a humongous bike market held every month. It was fairly unusual to see anyone riding a fancy bike, compare to the thousands of bike commuters you'd see every day.

    What I always thought was funny compared to some other countries, is that you were as likely to get overtaken by a little old lady in a long skirt as by a lycra-clad young athlete. Somehow that seemed to dispel the concerns a newbie might have about their own pace.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    if you are taking the cost of petrol and using it to buy the bike instead. then the cost for the bike is free as you would have used that money on single use petrol.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (10 children)

    Consumerist mind set. Bikes don’t tend to break all at once and you can ride a beater right across the country with a hundred bucks of spare parts. A lot of shit you just don’t need and a proper bike is the epitome of that. Also cars require maintenance too, and a hell of a lot more of it and it’s a lot more difficult and expensive. There is probably a whole order of magnitude number of things that could go wrong with a car at any moment.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Also cars require maintenance too, and a hell of a lot more of it and it’s a lot more difficult and expensive.

    Going by kilometer driven/ridden my first car for sure cost me way less to maintain than the bicycle I had at the same time. Of course it was an old bike (10 years old at that point). But then the car was also nearly 30 years old.

    Fuel costs put it back in the bike's favour of course. But in terms of maintenance and repair, over one summer I rode maybe 500-1000 km at most and must've put like 200 EUR into the bicycle, and drove maybe 5000-6000 km and put like 100 EUR into car maintenance and repairs.

    Bikes tend to be cheaper to maintain because the mileages are significantly less.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Yeah if you discount insurance, oil changes, and gas money; then over a 6th month period you might spend more money on parts for a bike than a car. Maybe.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    I literally said the math will change to favour the bike if you include fuel?

    Oil change was included in that figure and insurance costs next to nothing if you're getting liability only (and you can't really get full coverage on a 30 year old car).

    Think over the 4 years I owned that car, I spent a total of 200 euros or less on maintenance and repairs since it sat for the better part of the last 3 years I owned it.

    Most of the rest of my cars haven't been this cheap to maintain, but then again they've also done a lot of mileage for me.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    My point is that bikes are so much cheaper to maintain in the long run that even if you were doing the same miles, it would come out far cheaper. Just because you have a car that has been cheap to maintain, doesn't change the simple math of that problem. The average price of bringing your car to the shop once could buy you multiple used bikes from garage sales.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (1 child)

    I've only ever taken any of my cars to the shop twice or thrice over the years I believe. All the rest of my repairs have been done at home.

    If I did 15000 km a year on a bicycle, that would be literally hell for that bicycle. I need new pedals every 500-1000 km because I exert too much force and I can't be arsed to downshift every time I accelerate. Plastics break, metal ones bend. The crank bearing or whatever it's called in English doesn't tend to last too long either. I'm not much easier on my cars either, but they're built to take it.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago*

    I have a 20 year old car. This January I had to replace the control arms (bushings were shot), CV axels, and steering knuckle assembly. I did this all myself, to save a few thousand in labor (not joking, thats what one of my friends is paying a shop right now for just the brakes.) Still the price of those parts added up to just under 600. For that budget I could go out and buy a veritable fleet of used bikes from garage sales. Tune them up with tools on hand and a few spray cans of Degreasers and Teflon lubricants they wont even sell you in Europe, and never run out of bikes to ride again in my life. The thing is, I still own a damned car. I resent that I own a car. I won't try to argue that a bike has more utility than a car because it would be impossible. However, I will argue to the end of a time that a bike is more utilitarian. We all just don't live the kind of lives that are compatible with the slower speeds, more difficult travel that a bike requires outside of inner city travel.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Tell that to my 30 year old Gary Fisher that has 15k miles on it and I, nor 2 bike shops I've taken it to can get it running correctly, or find the correct size parts for it.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    That’s your fault for buying a gary fischer bike. Thats like owning a british leyland sports car and complaining that none of the local shops have parts for it.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    I have to disagree with that.

    I've been working on my own bikes for decades. I bought a used bike recently and it's been a nightmare. I know how to adjust a rear derailleur, but this one just won't work. I suspect whoever last owned it did something like replace the indexed shifter with an incompatible model. In the past I've also had to deal with wheels that were wonky. I have trued wheels before, and I'm pretty good at taking a wheel that's slightly out of true and getting it back to straight. But, fixing a wheel that's significantly taco-shaped is a whole different matter. Plus, most people don't have a truing stand.

    I also didn't realize just how worn some of the parts were on this bike before I got it. The chain just snapped while I was pedalling up a steep hill. I took a closer look and some of the chainrings are pretty worn, so I might have to replace them too. Plus the brakes need a re-work, and the cables should all be replaced.

    By the time I'm done with this bike, I probably will have replaced the chain, chain rings, brake pads, cables, tires, tubes, and maybe an indexed shifter pedal. Even after buying all those parts it will probably have been cheaper than buying a new bike, but if you count the hours and hours of labour, I'm not sure I'm coming out ahead. And, what's really frustrating is that with a new bike you get to feel it while it's at its best right after you bought it. With this one, every time I take it out, I realize there's something else wrong with it, and sometimes I end up walking home, like I did when the chain snapped.

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    You're looking at those higher end one, where the price has always been expensive. If you just want an average bike and doesn't care about weight and all those snobby stuff and don't mind adjusting it to fit you, get a generic chinese-made bike. It's cheap, it's repairable, it use non-proprietary part, and it's upgradable.

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  • [–] 18 points 6 months ago

    Fucking creative.

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  • [–] 16 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    Clever. Thought this was c/fuckcars for a sec.

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Now I know how to draw a bicycle!

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    You win! You get a cookie! Just send me your banking information, SSN, date of birth, mother's maiden name, blood n stool sample, a scrapbook of your foot prints, as well as a sample of your writing, and you will find a cookie in the trash over the next week. I've done this literally a trillion times, and half the time it works like 37% of the time, so it's real, dude. Statistics like that are God, obviously.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Way to go!

    Now, I'm going to become an artist!

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  • The intent of your second sentence requires no comma.

    Adding the pause after now slightly changes the connotation of the implied meaning.

    Now I'm going to become an artist.

    Now, I'm going to become an artist, if XYZ.

    That pause implies you're going to follow it up with a conditional clause or similar.

    But the path to the top of the mountain is made through regular, consistent effort rather than bursts of motivation and inspiration, but those definitely can help bring you to your destination. Best of luck! Consistency makes the lottery of gaining exposure a sure thing over the long run. The more seeds planted, inside and in medium, the more fruit can be harvested.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Just cheat a bit and add a line connecting the seat post to the back wheel's hub, like this guy did.

    But, don't worry, drawing a bike is hard. I've seen bike lane markers drawn with a stencil that made absolutely no sense. Some city worker actually painted this on the ground and thought it was ok:

    Terrible bike stencil

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  • [–] 11 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    My quality of life has increased a lot since getting an E-Bike.

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  • [+] 3 points 6 months ago* (5 children)
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    Our speed limits are lower in Canada. Up to America's limit, we'd need a license.

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  • [+] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago*

    Unless you live near doug ford apparently. Bike lane makes his commute from the suburbs longer? Gotta go, even when there is a video of him saying how nice and safe he felt on this bike lanes or something along those lines.

    He and his brother seem like the most self centered jerks from here where we have plenty of similar ones to compare. Also he "needs" a private plane to travel. Dumbassess leading the charge on every country it seems.

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    [–] 9 points 6 months ago

    this is brilliant, what a great visual effect

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago* (5 children)

    If Americans had access to Chinese EVs and had more affordable EV options it would be better. Their range is great now days. They can get up to 350 range depending on the car now. Comparible to gas cars. I think local governments should install charging stations as well to recieve some of the profits and to keep it affordable / voted on instead of it all being privatized again as we KNOW ALL COMPANIES EVENTUALLY JACK UP COST no matter what the product. America never learns.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Yeah, we really need this in the US. Very few people here can use a bike as a primary mode of transportation.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah downtown Lemmy users think everyone should be on a bike. It’s not realistic.

    The EV argument against Chinese vehicles is hilarious. Everything is already made in china. And the cars might spy on me? And the Americans won’t? I trust the Americans less than the Chinese at this point, I rather be spied by china

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    I think everyone should be on a bike, but I don't blame people if they aren't, as the infrastructure for it does not exist in a lot of places. As part of thinking that everyone should be on a bike, I also think that the infrastructure for that should be built. It's a hell of a lot cheaper to build and maintain that car roads.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago

    They don't live in reality. Or their reality is not everyone else's is a better way to say it.

    My rural ass town with not a sidewalk in site?

    Yeah the main road through people do 65 on id fucking get splat.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    The number didn’t really change, just how we reach it πŸ˜… feels a little too real.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (26 children)

    Good job! Have fun with your 40 mile commute.

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  • [–] 24 points 6 months ago (19 children)

    You take the bike down to the train station and bring it with you on the train. Caveat: Your country needs to have train lines that are actually usable.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    I once had a 22 Mile round trip bicycle commute and there were absolutely no buses or trains or any type of public transport available from point A to point b. I finally had to quit that job in the thick of winter when snow made bicycling impossible, but before I quit, I got there walking/ running for a couple months.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Sounds awful, sorry you had to go through that

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    Thank you, well at least it got me into excellent physical shape & I got a boyfriend out of it, though he turned out to be kinda toxic but he was a bit of companionship & security for 6 years until I finally escaped & ascended to my own best life.

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  • [–] 17 points 6 months ago* (14 children)

    My country doesn't, and I am seriously getting sick of hearing that the forms of transportation we are systematically forced into being called inferior when we have no other realistic choice. Everything and anything is at a bare minimum 15 miles away from me in the Appalachian foothils. Even the very best cyclist would tire easily on these hills in just a few miles. I mean nothing to you personally, but I am beyond sick of the extremely privileged "fuck cars" mentality. I am going full rant here, but I don't have another fuck to give. If you are able to walk or bike to a location to do whatever you want you are much more privileged than the average American. And the entire ethos around "lol fuck you just walk or bike" is precisely why we got into a fascist state.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (7 children)

    Theres probably a bunch more reasons than just transportion culture wars that the us is turning fascist, i would imagine, but yeah that was what i was getting at. Very aware that many places in America only are build for cars.

    Which is a damn shame. You shouldnt have yo be forced like that. But u know, money and power, big Industry lobbyism and decades of fearmongering about market regulations and public services, thatl get you a situation like that.

    Wasnt trying to be snarky or anything fyi, clarifying because im quite over thinking too much about tone, downside being people sormtime misunderstand my vibes. ✌️

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    Yeah. I kinda snapped and didn't intend to be mean. My mental state is not great.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    No worries comrade, we all crash sometimes (i do at least). Take care ❀️

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    That'll increase your premium.

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I've been under the impression that "fuckcars" has always been more about "fuck this system that we have developed that makes cars a necessity" and not about " fuck you for driving a car." It has always seemed more like anger at the system than at individuals to me.

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    in the Appalachian foothils.

    Think part of the 'fuck cars' problem is the messaging lacks nuance. For example, the problems nearly do not exist in your scenario. Their problems are mainly around big city centers, and perhaps transit between those big cities. Appalachian foothills hardly have enough traffic or land usage to trigger the usual complaints.

    Conversely, mass transit is a particularly terrible idea for Appalachia. Rural contexts in general make mass transit a challenge, but those slopes mean you pretty much have to have roads way too curvy for any bus, let alone getting rail going.

    In short, a hellscape of traffic lights and crosswalks with no where to build because you have to split it with cars, I get the 'fuck cars' sentiment, but rural and esspecially mountainous areas, well cars are about the only reasonable answer.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago

    Short rant: Your first sentence touches on a microcosm of a much larger problem. Nuance and context are disappearing everywhere. As far as threats to society go, it's in my number one spot, and we really need more people actively dismantling it like this, so thanks.

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    OK, you your $5,000 e- bike stops 3/4 of the way home and it took you an additional 2 hours.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    ETA, actually doing the math for my old commute - It would take and additional 12 hours by e-bike. One way.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    If you average 10 mph on a bike, it'd be over 120 miles each way. If you have to spend like 5 or 6 hours each day just commuting, you probably should just move closer to your work.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago
    [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)

    Where the fuck you buying gad that's $4009? Is this in 2029 money?

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago
    [+] -3 points 6 months ago (2 children)
  • 5 comments in c/fuckcars@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 14 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    That's one heck of a seat.

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    When the $4.009 gas price looks like a steal

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