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[–] 17 points 6 months ago
[–] 123 points 6 months ago (42 children)
  • [+] [S] -13 points 6 months ago (41 children)
  • [–] 57 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (34 children)

    Let me know when they'll do a fundraiser for Ukraine...

    Edit: the tankies are here to brigade this thread... someone lit the fires of hexbear lol

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Ukraine is still beating Russia back even after Trump cut their funding. Palestinians are the most defenseless people on Earth.

    What the hell kind of point are you even trying to make here?

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  • [+] [S] -14 points 6 months ago* (29 children)
  • [–] 48 points 6 months ago (25 children)

    Are three fundraisers for Palestine not good enough for you? I don't think this is the correct community or post to expose such animosity, this fundraiser is a good thing for people who are suffering under Isntreals thumb and I believe that should be the focus: if you want to own hexbears epic style, the best way to do so would be to organize your own fundraiser outside hexbear for Palestinians.

    That's not the point, it's great they're doing something good but they spread intolerance via propaganda from authoritarian countries.

    In my experience, hexbears have no animosity towards Ukrainians. I don't want to get political because this is not the appropriate comm for this, you can disagree with the geopolitical analysis of the situation with hexbears but they surely don't want Ukrainians thrown into a meat grinder (nor Russians for that matter) and have no animosity for Ukrainians as a people, in a similar way to how many people criticise the Iranian government's policy without hating on Iranian people.

    You must be blind then, because.ml and hexbear are both massive voices on Ukraine being filled with Nazis and it should be wiped out and returned to russia. The only reason they hate what Israel is doing is because Israel is backed by the west, which they hate.

    Would you be here saying how great it is for a white supremacists group raising funds for something? Probably not.

    Tolerance of the intolerant must not be allowed.

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  • [+] [S] -16 points 6 months ago* (20 children)
  • [–] 17 points 6 months ago (19 children)

    https://hexbear.net/post/253926

    I dunno what instance you think I'm talking about but literally hexbear users saying shit like:

    "(but also, the ukrainian state genuinely has a nazi problem, not that russia's invasion had anything to do with that really)."

    Is not pro Ukrainian, it's russian propaganda.

    You might need to check and see if the hexbear I'm talking about is the same one you are thinking of.

    I'm not here discussing your support for Ukrainians, I have family in Ukraine, so thank you for taking refugees in.

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  • [+] [S] -1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (18 children)
  • [–] 8 points 6 months ago (17 children)

    https://hexbear.net/post/228858

    Good, fuck Ukraine and their victim bullshit, the entire USSR was affected by the Soviet Famine of the 1930s, and relative to their population it wasn't even the Ukrainians, but the people of Kazakhstan that lost the most people, yet you never hear them be this fucking obnoxious and claim they were "genocided". The "Holodomor" was not a genocide, it's Nazi propaganda.

    You're blind if you think they're pro-ukrainian there.

    It takes 2 seconds to find shit like this all over hexbear.

    Hexbear is trash and a stain on the fediverse. They give it a bad name and is why the mass majority of instances have defederated from them.

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  • [+] [S] -6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (16 children)
  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (15 children)
  • [+] [S] -5 points 6 months ago* (14 children)
  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (13 children)
  • [+] [S] 1 point 6 months ago* (5 children)
  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Sure thing...you keep spewing that russian propaganda...

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  • [+] [S] -2 points 6 months ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I provided links and users...and you denied it....

    Hell their is even a user in this comment that's saying Zelenskyy is a Zionist but also that Ukraine is filled with Nazis...make that one work.

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  • [–] -3 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    You made claims you didn't back up and moved the goal posts twice, and finally resolved to calling them a tankie.

    You're "pro Ukraine" in the same way Zionists are "pro Israel", they cannot do wrong and they cannot be criticized. Anyone who criticizes Ukraine is a Russian tankie bot.

    Ukraine does have a Nazi history and a Nazi problem, and that's separate from and not a defense of Russia or Putin, and rejecting it as tankie logic simply because Putin used it as a talking point is intellectually dishonest.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946

    And Zelenski is an unapologetic genocide supporting Zionist, why would anyone collecting funds for victims of Israeli genocide also collect funds for its cheerleaders.

    We can accept that Russia is wrong and Putin is evil and the war on Ukraine is bad without sanctifying Ukraine and pretending it has no problems.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    He must have posted over on his hexbear account.

    Tankie brigade is here to make sure everyone knows that they think ukraine is filled with Nazis...and now Zelenskyy is a Zionist...tankies gonna tank I guess.

    Another one added to the tag group.

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  • [–] -1 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Jesus Christ you're hopeless.

    I even provided a liberal western media source for you, but you're right, suggesting Nazis exist in Ukraine (where they welcomed Hitler and exterminated upwards of 1.6 million Jews) is tankie brigading.

    And dismissing that zelenski is a Zionist is... I don't even know how to label that, you're just shoving your fingers in your ears and screaming "LALALA TANKIE TANKIE TANKIE".

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    So does russia also have a nazi problem then? Where they allied with hitler? Or you just want to keep spewing tankie shit to fit russias narrative?

    And if I can remember correctly....jews aren't exactly fans of nazis...or are you one of those Holocaust deniers as well?

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago

    Or you just want to keep spewing tankie shit to fit russias narrative?

    I have not once defended Russia or their war on Ukraine, I simply said Ukraine is not perfect, and that it's really stupid to keep calling people tankies simply for criticizing it.

    So does russia also have a nazi problem then?

    Not particularly. Russia/the RSFSR is generally understood as a major victim of Nazi Germany, even though some Russians did collaborate. That is different from saying Russia had the same kind of widespread Nazi collaboration problem seen in some other occupied regions.

    https://encyclopedia.yivo.org/article/2015

    Where they allied with hitler?

    The USSR was, temporarily. The Nazi-Soviet pact in 1939 was a real agreement, and it helped enable the joint destruction of Poland. But that does not erase the fact that the RSFSR was later invaded by Nazi Germany and suffered enormously, including over 119,000 Jewish victims in the occupied parts of Soviet Russia. So no, “Russians suffered under Nazism” and “the USSR collaborated with Hitler before 1941” are both true.

    Is it tankie shit to read history books? The Red Army liberated Auschwitz!

    You calling me a tankie doesn't change facts or history. Russia invading Ukraine is bad.

    Historically, there was substantial Ukrainian collaboration with the Nazi occupation, including the Ukrainian Auxiliary Police, which Yad Vashem says assisted German forces in anti-Jewish operations and other repressive actions, while the Holocaust in Ukraine was one of the main killing grounds of the entire genocide.

    FSR was mainly on the receiving end of Nazi occupation and mass murder. Ukraine, by contrast, was not only a major killing ground of the Holocaust but also saw meaningful local collaboration, and it still has a real far-right problem today. Freedom House has explicitly described far-right extremism in Ukraine as a threat to Ukrainian democracy and documented violent intimidation by right-wing radical groups.

    That doesn’t make all Ukrainians Nazis; it just means the history and the present are uglier than the usual clean nationalist story. And calling people tankies for criticizing Ukraine or Zelenski is really, really, stupid.

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (1 child)

    suggesting Nazis exist in Ukraine (where they welcomed Hitler and exterminated upwards of 1.6 million Jews)

    You mean 'The Ukraine', as in, a member state of the USSR as it existed at that time, and not 'Ukraine' a sovereign country, which it has been since 1991.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago

    Because changing the country magically erases its crimes and changes the racism and hatred in its people?

    Yeah... And Russia is no longer in the USSR, all good there, nothing to see. New country new history.

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  • [+] -10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

    They're horrible because they disagree with the amount of Nazis in Ukraine?

    What percentage of Nazis in Ukraine would you consider "tolerant", when does the switch flip from "tolerant" to "intolerant"?

    Everyone gets called Nazis, sitting at a table with Nazis makes you a Nazi, and so on.

    but also, the ukrainian state genuinely has a nazi problem, not that russia’s invasion had anything to do with that really

    propaganda doesn't make it wrong. They DO genuinely have a Nazi problem, see far-right Azov movement. Would you agree that is a problem? Or do you assert that is fake, and the movement never happened or something?

    https://www.theleftchapter.com/post/total-militarization-the-azov-movement-is-colonizing-ukrainian-society-with-neo-nazi-war-ideology

    Is "the left chapter" and hundreds of other sources all Russian propaganda? there is a ton of information online, all fake?

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  • [–] 9 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    So then everyone has a nazi problem and russia should just be invading everyone...if you haven't picked up yet...there are a lot of right wing movements out there. Guess Russia should start bombing civilians in other countries then.

    Guess they should start in their own backyard though.

    https://www.latrobe.edu.au/news/articles/2022/opinion/russias-long-history-of-neo-nazis

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  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)

    Why everyone?

    Wouldn't it be reasonable for Ukraine not to have Nazi military brigades? Is that a bridge too far for you, a Ukrainian?

    Isn't that an official arm of your government? Are they right wing nationalists or not? I've seen them wear SS badges on many occasions, is that AI or fake? You would know better than I.

    I agree, Russia should start in their own backyard, as should all nations. I am against all Nazis and far-right nationalists, in every country, and against armed invasion (like USA's Iran war and Russia's invasion).

    So... you still have a Nazi problem, and in your armed forces no less... do you agree? Or are they not a problem for you? Or are they fake news?

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  • [–] 3 points 6 months ago*

    First I'm not Ukrainian. I have family there but I don't live there or claim that I am Ukrainian. Secondly having groups like that exists everywhere, it doesn't magically give a country a reason to invade and kill civilians. Or do you think that's ok because a group existed?

    The Azov regiment had a past, but that's no longer the case. It hasn't been that way for more than a decade now. In fact, they didn't even pull 2% of the votes. AfD pulls way more than that and has an actual voice in Germany, why isn't France marching into Germany and de-nazifying them?

    https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220325-azov-regiment-takes-centre-stage-in-ukraine-propaganda-war

    So I'll ask again, do you think that a country should be invaded and it's civilians targeted and killed because there are white supremacists/kkk/neonazis/racist/etc. In the military ranks?

    All countries have far right shit heels, it's not going to magically go away, and probably will never go away, but it doesn't give another country the right to invade and kill civilians.

    You're just repeating russian propaganda.

    PS...you tankies need to stick with .ml or something, jumping to other instances gets annoying having to tag you when you show up.

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  • [–] 4 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Hexbear banned me just for posting a meme of Bernie Sanders kissing Vladimir Putin with the caption "Tankies ❤️ Dead Palestinians".

    I don't care how much money they raise. They are monsters. Inhuman, vile, irredeemable filth. Anyone who doesn't let me post in their community is the worst kind of pond scum.

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  • [–] 66 points 6 months ago (42 children)

    well, at least there will be a positive effect from them for once

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  • [–] 12 points 6 months ago (39 children)

    I've never heard of Hexbear. Care to explain?

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  • [–] 41 points 6 months ago (20 children)

    Many instances defederated from them because a large chunk of the user base was abusive and brigading. To an extent even the worst right wing instances federated couldn't match.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Not disputing your claim, as it doesn't surprise me at all, but I'm curious: What are "the worst right wing instances" ?

    I haven't paid enough attention to notice any instances with a consistent and noticeable right-wing lean.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago (11 children)

    [source needed]

    I don't like tankies much either but I've seen way worse from the fascists.

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  • [–] 6 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    I saw right wingers raging (rarely), but there would be a post about Bernie sanders and every time there's a hexbear user saying "this capitalist bootlicking swine, I never want to see his revolting war criminal face again." And replied to all comments saying "wtf is wrong with you" with similar comments. Go check the thread of my instance asking if we should defederate, I can find it if you want. So many people who said "the toxicity from hexbear is overwhelming," myself included.

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  • [–] -2 points 6 months ago

    I don't disagree with you. I think that we should encourage the hexbears to be pitted against the great danger first - fascism. When I discuss factionalism and solidarity, I try to put the accent on "I understand your criticism, and that is why we should focus on the great danger: fascism and corporatism. If we will grow without compromising, we must rally all behind that cause, so that we foster solidarity."

    Propaganda at its core, is "sling something at the wall often enough and it becomes truth".

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  • [–] 5 points 6 months ago (5 children)

    Not really sure if it's useful to ask if diarrea or regular shit is worse.

    I don't want to step in either

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  • [–] 7 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Well, for one, in eg. East Germany, homosexuality was decriminalised before in the West.

    In fascist Italy and Germany, you were sent to a concentration camp.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago

    Ultimately that comes down to personal experience and circumstance. And as you can see a lot of people either experienced it themselves or saw it as well. And I don't think it's controversial to say that the Chapo Trap House crew are rather immature. Unfortunately for you a lot of the evidence that you're searching for is lost to time on instances that were Federated that have shut down. If you have access to hexbear you could probably find some of them I'm sure lurking around from 3 to 4 years ago.

    Not going to lie I haven't interacted with them in at least 3 years and I haven't missed it. Maybe they've matured. Anything is possible.

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  • To be fair, they did specify right-wing Lemmy instances, not right-wingers in general, and I can't think of any instances that would meet that definition off the top of my head.

    But Hexbear definitely has a reputation as some of the worst of the worst of the normal instances. Blahaj defederated from them despite Ada trying to get the trans communities of both instances connected because of the harassment, brigading, and outright transphobia Hexbear inflicted on Blahaj users for not being the right kind of leftists. You can still find the community discussions on the topic in the general instance posts. They even tried to claim that Blahaj was being transphobic to them. You know, the LGBTQ instance created and ran to be a space for trans people and others first and foremost.

    Hexbear is also known to have at least once tried to convince their mods to "take over other instances and ban all the non-communists."

    I believe that at this point if you were to download the stuff to spin up your own instance, Hexbear is on the list of instances that are defederated by default because so many instances have defederated them because of their behavior.

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  • [–] 2 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    Lemmy.world defederated from hexbear "pre-emptively" before they even had federation active. To this day, I have never seen this mythical hexbear brigading.

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  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Yes. And people including myself have accounts on other servers. And experienced it personally 3-4 years ago. That you didn't experience it doesn't disprove it. There's a reason many of us chose servers like world as primary, that didn't federate.

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  • [–] -5 points 6 months ago

    It's more often the reverse. You'll see accounts in hexbear-adjacent servers posting "Why Stalin Was Worse Than Hitler" tier content, getting banned, and then coming over to .world to scream and cry about how they've been censored by the mean Tankies.

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  • [–] 25 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    They are authoritarian left and even though Russia is not a leftist country they will refuse to say a single thing bad about Russia, China, and some will even say nothing is wrong with north Korea. If you search the instance for 'Ukraine' you will see them saying Russia is the good guy in the Ukrainian war. They will say things like authoritarianism doesn't actually exist. I legitimately wonder how many posts are state sponsored lol. There are a lot of them on lemmy.ml as well

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  • [+] [S] 0 points 6 months ago (11 children)
  • [–] 10 points 6 months ago (10 children)

    You guys are so weird. Russia is awful for non-cis people and you're all falling over yourselves simping for them.

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  • [+] [S] 1 point 6 months ago (9 children)
  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (8 children)

    Got it. Everything is the west's fault. Very nuanced.

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  • [+] [S] 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (7 children)
  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (6 children)

    You're the one who keeps dick measuring countries. I call out specific bad actions, regardless of who commits them.

    It's okay though, the west made you post that message.

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  • [+] [S] 3 points 6 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    I wasn't thinking about the Chinese internet firewall at the moment, but you bring up a good point - that's a bad thing. What's the alternative, internet freedom where china can't police the media and public discourse?

    Sucks how the west makes china censor it's citizens.

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  • [+] [S] 3 points 6 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    So the state should choose what people can read and say?

    Why on earth would you want that?

    I really don't get the tankie obsession with dictators and authoritarian rule. It seems so contrary to socialist ethos.

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  • [+] [S] 2 points 6 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 0 points 6 months ago

    There's the obvious language barrier, but just because something is not from the west does not mean it's accurate.

    I lived in Hong Kong for 3 years, Malaysia for 1, and live in a former Soviet country, so I am no stranger to non-western options.

    I hope you give non-western media the same critical analysis that you do western media.

    I'm not okay with suppression of information though. How would I even interact with Iranian citizens given that the government has blocked internet access?

    Media isn't blocked in western countries like it is in authoritarian dictatorships like china, Russia, Iran, north Korea, Cuba, etc...

    Lack of popularity does not equal censorship and that's a huge distinction. If I wanted to, I could read NK news.

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  • [–] 20 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    goddamn this entire thread is annoying:

    • yes the hexbears are annoying and create problems
    • no they're not just as bad as overt fascists. their hearts are in the right place, as demonstrated by this post
    • being a scold when they do something good won't get them to do more good, it will entrench them further into the things they do that are problematic

    so good job hexbears. you did something good this week. keep stuff like this going

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  • [–] 23 points 6 months ago (1 child)
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    [–] 13 points 6 months ago

    Great news!

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  • [–] 13 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)

    Sounds good, but make sure the money really goes into the hands who needs it the most: the vulnerable rather than those wanting to fight to the death.

    Have to add that while zakat and jizya are normal practices in Islam, nonetheless the issue is the charity money is rarely ever accounted properly.

    BTW, food not bombs.

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    [–] 16 points 6 months ago (1 child)
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