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US and Iran end 21-hour ceasefire talks without agreement before Vance departs Pakistan (apnews.com)
submitted 7 months ago by to c/world@lemmy.world
54 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

They must not have worn suits or thanked him enough but the dealbreaker was that the selection of couches was abysmal.

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[+] 143 points 7 months ago (2 children)
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    • [–] 57 points 7 months ago (20 children)

    USA is crazy if they still think they have any leverage.

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  • [–] 47 points 7 months ago (16 children)

    The USA is crazy if they think Vance has any negotiating finesse.

    Or...we are crazy to expect anything from this administration

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  • [–] 34 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    The only reason Vance was there is because Iran insisted. Normally, we would never send the VP, but Iran rejected Trump's amateur negotiating squad, Witkoff and Kushner (they're real estate developers, not diplomats), because they wanted to deal with someone in authority. So sending Vance at their demand was already a concession on MAGA's part. They started from a position of weakness before the negotiations even started.

    The Art of the Deal, my hairy ass.

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    Americans are crazy for allowing it to continue.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    Europeans are trying to get to throw away our best shot at getting power back, which is a bloodbath in the Midterm election in November.

    How MAGA responds to that is going to guide our actions over the next two years, until we can have a Presidential election. How MAGA responds to that will guide our actions after that.

    THAT is the time table. There is no reason to short circuit that without any better plan in place. Telling the American people to "do something," is the same as Trump telling the Iranian people to take their country back. How? By what mechanism? The only strategy that could be employed at this point would be a total abandonment of society, which would lead to anarchy, chaos, and violence. So how does THAT help the world?

    We still have chance to get through this by using our laws and our Comstitution. It's literally our last chance, but we have to try that first, before we reach the worst case scenario.

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  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (9 children)

    Europeans are trying to get to throw away our best shot at getting power back

    Ridiculous claim with no basis in reality.
    I also never wrote the "people" I wrote Americans, and that includes American politicians and all the American institutions that are supposed to defend democracy. The so called democratic safeguards, like the press the courts the congress. Even within the administration they could call for article 25.

    You are making an incredibly stupid straw man argument.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    Except that we Americans see and answer similar comments all day, every day. We are constantly asked why we don't rise up, or we are shamed every day for not rising up.

    I just explained for the millionth time that we are fighting back, but we are doing it within our system at this point, hoping we can get it done without getting too crazy.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago* (7 children)

    I just explained for the millionth time that we are fighting back, but we are doing it within our system at this point,

    And the system doesn't work, which is part of the problem. And you have let Trump destroy NATO, allowed threats of invasion of allied countries (Canada and Greenland), and started an illegal war against Iran that is ruining global economy, and emboldened Putin in his war against Ukraine, against the interest of USA's former allies. And watched in silence as Trump threaten the annihilation of an entire civilization, a threat that is only meaningful if nukes are on the table.

    hoping we can get it done without getting too crazy.

    It's clearly too late now, things are far beyon too crazy already. You can wait all you want now, it probably doesn't matter anymore, not much left for Trump to destroy.
    As I have equally mentioned a thousand times here, the problem is not only the administration, it's the fact that nothing is done, and the fact that the American population elected Trump twice. The second time well knowing he tried a coup. It shouldn't even have been possible for him to run, but ALL checks and balanced have proven worthless, and USA is now a rogue nation, completely disrespecting both their own laws and international law.
    Even attempting to illegally undermine ICC!

    You don't explain shit, you may have done what you could IDK, but the problem isn't about individuals, it's systemic, which is why everybody hate USA now.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    All of that is valid, and nobody likes a two and half year timeline to get it back on track, but having America become a dystopian wasteland, or a uber-fascist nation, aren't the outcomes that anyone wants. That would be far worse than the current situation.

    If we have the bloodbath in November that is expected, then that will blunt much of MAGA s efforts, and calm things down a bit. Then the Dems will have to control him over the next two years. That will take strong Dem leadership, which we haven't had in a long time. The difference is that we already have a rising progressive wing that is getting more and more aggressive, and their ranks are going to swell in November.

    There will be new leadership after November, and they won't tolerate the nonsense like the MAGA comedy act of Schmuck & Jeffries have. Things will start to improve after November, and then we can look to 2028 for the next phase.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Then the Dems will have to control him over the next two years.

    Except now the Dems are accomplishes, with Schumer doing absolutely nada, he behaves like he is under the thumb of Israel. And with him it stalls Democrats from doing anything.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    That's why I said we need new leadership, and it will be imperative. You can bet your ass that the minute the Midterm is over, I'll be contacting my reps and demanding not just new leadership in both houses, but bold and AGGRESSIVE leadership.

    No more weak statements in response to atrocities. I want to see the Democratic majorities aggressively on the offense every day. Turn those strongly worded letters into subpoenas and indictments. Put MAGA on the run. Make them quit their insider trading on the advice of their expensive defense attorneys. Make them wish they'd never decided to pursue their criminal careers in the political arena.

    We are in unprecedented times, and we will require unprecedented solutions. We need to support candidates and leadership who will embrace that philosophy, and not just the same old business as usual that got us here.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    That’s why I said we need new leadership

    OK that we can 100% agree on. And also the rest.

    We are in unprecedented times,

    Absolutely, I never dreamed I would ever be against USA, I grew up in Denmark in the 70's with Americans being the heroes. Watching American movies and TV series, and everything about USA was cool back then. Also Carter was a true humanitarian, and I trusted him more than any president that has come after.
    But Nixon and Watergate and the Vietnam war, then Reagan with the Iran Contra affair, Then Bush with a war based on false intelligence and comments like if aren't with us you are against us. And Now finally 2 times Trump.
    It's been an ever increasing slippery slope from bad to worse, disrespect for both local law and international law. And now your allies don't trust you anymore, after threats of invading allied countries and undermining the global economy. It's not just Trump, it's the 60 year history that leads up to trump, and a lack of trusting the American population and democracy.

    You probably notice that all the presidents I mention are Republican, but that's not because democrats are that much better, Obama also had illegal surveillance against allied governments, and he used drones illegally into Pakistan and other countries costing more than 70000 civilian casualties.

    If USA can turn it all around to something that can be trusted again, I will be the first to celebrate, but for now, I'm no longer holding my breath. As sad as it is.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    100%, my Danish brother.

    I never dreamed I would ever be against USA

    Me neither, and I'm an American, who grew up in a military family. I was born on an Army base in a converted barracks. And yet, I hate what America has become, and actively root against things like this war. I hope we lose this war in front of the entire world, in humiliating fashion. America doesn't deserve it, but MAGA sure does. MAGA is NOT America.

    Stick with us, the good part of America, by far the largest part, will prevail, and then we will put have to put aside our kindness for a moment, as we deal with family business, and then return to the world with a responsible attitude, and the hope for redemption.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Stick with us, the good part of America, by far the largest part, will prevail,

    From here it seems the good Americans are a minority, but I hope I'm wrong.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    You're definitely wrong, it's just that the evil minority is willing to cheat, lie, manipulate, bribe, etc., while the good majority won't stoop to that, and they've ridden that corruption to power.

    What will happen is that they will eventually wake up to the fact that even kind, empathetic people sometimes have to defend their way of life against evil people who intend to take advantage of that kindness. When that switch flips, watch out.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    The only leverage the US has is having a shitton of ordnance against a world that seems apathetic to the pummeling of a non-white country.

    THAT'S what's bringing Iran to the table.

    This is what gets conservative dicks hard. Not out of a pursuit of peace or stability. But out of wanting to show the world that they are powerful.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    against a world that seems apathetic

    I don't think that's 100% true, although (former) allies haven't done much to stop USA, they have expressed that the war is illegal, and no (former) ally has done anything to really help USA and Israel.

    AFAIK EU has talked about ending the EU/Israel association agreement, that is the basis for trade between EU and Israel.

    I agree it's not a lot, but it is a sign to both Israel and USA, that we distance ourselves from this war. China of course support Iran.

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    • [–] 33 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    "These GODLESS, EVIL people in the Iranian REGIME couldn't accept my simple requests and don't want to work for peace, even though I tried very hard, everybody's saying that. So, even though I don't want to, we might have to SEND THEIR COUNTRY TO THE STONE AGE. Blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne! Thank you for your attention to this matter. - The Big Don"

    Did I do it right? 🙏

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    You forgot to praise Allah.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I can't just say that ironically or mockingly, haven't you read my username? 😅

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    • [–] 63 points 7 months ago*

    Anti-palestine was still launching missiles during ceasefire talks btw.

    But of course we can't possibly get mad at them. It's "antisemitic."

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    [–] 42 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    I still don't see any public discussion on why Israel should be allowed to have nukes, and not Iran. That is the core idea of deterrence.

    Israel has so much kompromat on western politicians, that they are basically held by their balls.

    Also, the US Involvement in the war is almost certainly fueled by all the shit Israel has on Turd. The Epstein files, considering Epstein was a Mossad agent, must de devastating.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I understand not wanting dictatorships to have nukes. Look at North Korea for example. So far we're good, but eventually someone that is absolutely insane could be appointed and then South Korea no longer exists. The history of the Roman Empire shows us what can go wrong,.now imagine it with nukes.

    Of course the US's democracy is off the rails too so who knows. I guess ideally the leader can change every 4 years at least. Just gotta keep them away from the nukes.

    Now all that being said any country not building nukes is setting themselves up for failure. Nukes mean you have sovereignty in the modern era.

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  • [+] -13 points 7 months ago (3 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    North Korea A) isn't a dictatorship

    Lmao

    Anyway see my last paragraph for point B, a point I already made. Every nation that wants sovereignty should be building nukes because that's the world order that's been established.

    And finally I'm not a liberal nor a tankie obviously. I know it's hard to comprehend a 3rd option (it's not conservative either btw).

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    Well the thing is that Isreal already has them. You can only stop a country from having nukes before they get them. The reality is no one should have nukes, but there's no real way to have everyone disable them at the same time and have any confidence they couldn't just make them again. Every one who has nukes promises to never use them unless someone else nukes them first, but we all know that if it's a choice between being conquered and using nukes to stop it, promises are worth nothing.

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    • [–] 20 points 7 months ago

    Do you even have a suit?

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    [–] 17 points 7 months ago

    Art of the Deal, baby.

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    [–] 13 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Doesn't get what he wants. Takes his ball and goes home.

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    • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Does the Vice President wear a condom when he fucks a couch in another country?

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    • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Vance is almost certainly demanding concessions as if Iran lost the war.

    Trump and gang (and Netanyahu) want excuses to blow up more civilians and civilian infrastructure.

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    • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    I would have thought that when the nuclear talks in 2015 needed 20 months to find an agreement, it should be possible to solve 10 problems more in 2 weeks /s

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    [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    And not enough gold curtains

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    [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    The Art of Pining for the Chesterfield. Shady Vance's head's not in the game.

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