Comment and thread in question: https://lemmy.world/comment/23138585

Ban from that community, memes@lemmy.ml:

Rule 1 of said community: Be civil and nice.

Rule 1 of said instance: No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct.

I was clearly not bigoted in any manner, and I believe more civil than the way I was treated, was it the Code of Conduct? Excerpts:

Please be kind and courteous. There’s no need to be mean or rude.

Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every design or implementation choice carries a trade-off and numerous costs. There is seldom a right answer.

I think I was kind with the people I disagreed with, even if they could not be in return, yet those comments (some including ableist slurs) remain. I think this is enough to demonstrate it is merely a difference in ideology which motivated the ban. Well, bans, because it seems they copied and pasted the same ban in all the communities they have access to:

It's not a general lemmy.ml ban, just those in particular.

I understand this kind of behavior in safe space communities that don't want outsiders bellyaching about the pragmatism of electoral politics, but that's not the case in any of the communities I've been banned from, nor is it a part of the instance rules or CoC.

PTB or triggered shitlib? Not an exclusive or, of course.

top 89 comments

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[–] 19 points 7 months ago* (35 children)

OP got banned from this community for "Bad jacketing and electoralism", and while I aint reading 125 comments to see bad jacketing, including electorialism as a ban reason is wild af.

Regardless if PTB or YDI, I think grass touching might be in order for multiple parties here for taking online politics LARP too seriously. It's a beautiful spring weather, perfect for a walk.

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  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (31 children)

    they were calling people who they think didn't vote nazis. seems like a pretty good reason to ban someone. they were also banned from AN because they wouldn't stop calling me honey.

    all in all, a rather unpleasant liberal, who was given the chance to find posting opportunities elsewhere.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (28 children)

    Look I'm not saying op was right but like at some point we have to acknowledge the elephant in the room. The non-voters/moderates/apolitical/silent majority/whatever the fuck you want to refer to them as is always simultaneously the biggest roadblock to progress and the biggest enabler of authoritarianism. Read and listen to what former Nazis had to say on the subject, listen to the survivors of their attrocities who were the moderate/apolitical group until authoritarianism kicked in their own personal door.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    “We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    I'm curious what you mean by this quote, as it feels a bit both sides doesn't it?

    The first half seems to indicate one should just vote dem because lesser of two evils (not voting being "neutrality" in my reading) so then in the second half...

    You had a lot of leftists rightly pointing out Kamala would not commit to ending support for Israel's genocide, and we were told to shut up and just vote the lesser evil anyway.

    So... Silenced and then what happened

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    For all their corpo-friendly faults, Democrats are demonstrably less oppressive than Republicans. Vote for the lesser evil, then don't be silent about the support of genocide. But keep the greater evil out first.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Vote for the lesser evil, then don’t be silent about the support of genocide. But keep the greater evil out first.

    So it turns out that wasn't a convincing argument for enough voters.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    And we're all paying the price for their terrible judgement.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, we are all paying for the terrible judgement of the pro-genocide wing of the party that tried to force their only policy on the American people. Keep blaming the voters and never appealing to them. That keeps working out great for you.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (15 children)

    Exactly. And especially so when its "Dems are just as bad".

    No they the fucknare not.

    Dems suck ass, but there is absolutely ZERO path towards progressive policy and a net positive through the GOP. Zero. They are an agressive, regrrssive, boat anchor, dragging everyone and everything backwards. Dems at least pay fucking lip service to and throw a bone to progressive policies. A bone that can be turned into a seed for actual positive change.

    The GOP would rather grind thst shit to dust and tell you id doesn't exist.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    No they the fucknare not

    Tell us you have no idea what happens outside of the US without telling us you're an uneducated American who has buried their head in the sand to avoid thinking about how the democratic party has a long history of supporting human rights abuses in Asia.

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah, let them solve their own damn problems.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Dems at least pay fucking lip service to and throw a bone to progressive policies.

    And then find just enough no votes so they can block those policies, like with the public option and every tangible individual benefit in Build Back Better. Or we need the parliamentarian on board like with minimum wage. Or we need to ask every federal employee until we get the "no" we're looking for like biden did with cannabis rescheduling.

    The left saw a party that they suspected was ineffectual on purpose.

    Then they turned around and proved it by getting out of their own way and ignoring actual laws to sell weapons for genocide. They could have found an excuse not to. They're amazingly adept at finding them when they don't want to keep their campaign promises.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Yup. If two rapists walk up to me and tell me to choose between them, I'm choosing the one who will give me medical care, education, improved economy for the working class instead of investing class, public infrastructure, nature preservation, and a tease of corporate regulations instead of the one who will empty my wallet and return nothing. Either way we're getting fucked, may as well get fucked like an old housewife instead of a slave.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Here's a thought. Throw the rapists out and elect somebody who isn't a rapist, you fucking weirdos.

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  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Oh yeah I'm sorry I guess I just imagined that literally every single government on the planet is assisting the pedo ring run by my elected pedo rulers. You're literally acting like an American rn... even demonstrating the same levels of willful ignorance and blind ego as the most red of Maga. Congratulations you're more American than 1/2 of their own population!

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    I like how you're doing your best to make giving up and deciding that you're just going to have to pick between pedos from now on seem like the smart choice. That's pretty disgusting, not gonna lie. And worst of all, you don't seem all that bothered by it.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Yup. If two rapists walk up to me and tell me to choose between them, I’m choosing the one who will give me medical care, education, improved economy for the working class instead of investing class, public infrastructure, nature preservation, and a tease of corporate regulations

    The problem is that neither made a convincing case that they were interested in doing any of that.

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    We get minor improvements to everything I listed when Democrat terrorists are in office, Republicans destroy existing policies for everything I listed every time they get power. Nature preservation alone makes the Democrats a million times better of an option, we are fucking the planet exponentially less with them in office, this is a fact.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    We get minor improvements to everything I listed when Democrat terrorists are in office

    So their apologists keep saying to people who are suffering. Rejoice! Prescription drug prices are down! (For 10 drugs! Available only to boomers on Medicare!) What do you mean you can't afford groceries?! Have you seen how great Bezos is doing? The economy is great, now shut up!

    Genocide always gets the front seat at the trough. Where you want it. And netanyahu didn't have to listen to excuses about how everything was slightly better for billionaires so he should be happy.

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Voting for Democrats is not voting for success. IDK why we have to keep telling people that. At the very best, voting Dem is a vote for maintaining the decades of fascism and civil rights abuses by them. It's a vote for the status quo, even at the best of times and during the best years. Usually, however, voting for the Dems is voting for the erosion of civil rights, genocide and human rights abuses in Asia, and the proliferation of corporate and Israeli control over the nation. They aren't the "lesser of two evils", they ARE the same evil, and anyone who says otherwise is an entitled white person who doesn't have to live through the human rights abuse they gleefully take part in.

    The only difference between them and Trump is that finally, Americans like you are having to actually live through the shit you put the rest of the world through. Hopefully you reflect on the experience and see what a horrible country you live in, and actually start voting for somebody who will change that.

    I highly doubt that though.

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  • It took me too long to get this, but man when I did, I was fuming. People like to point the positive of what Dems may do but I point out what negatives they OFTEN do. Biden was pro police, bipartisan, even said we NEEDED republicans. "Both sides" he called it. I'm done compromising my morals for fetid waste that is the Democrat party. Does the vote blaming carry over through most of Lemmy because if so, I have about 6 accounts I haven't blocked I need to report.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    So you don't live in America but you somehow know exactly what it's like to live there under every variable across every administration? Congratulations, you are as American as the most devout maga.

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago* (7 children)

    I can't actually see what your [deleted] comments say but even if they were objectionable to their rules in that community, revoking your access to other communities entirely irrelevant to memes@lemmy.ml seems completely PTB.

    Especially as you've got BrainInTheBox there running rampant, as usual.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago* (5 children)

    IIRC, on lemmy instances, there is no actual "instance-wide ban" feature. to do a ban like that, you have to get banned from all of the communities you're subscribed to via some scripted tool, so this is how it shows up. this is one of the improvements the platforms like mBin and PieFed have included in their code. apparently, it's still "coming soon" in Lemmy's code.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    Yes, it is possible abbotsbury copped an instance ban and thus was banned from all lemmy.ml communities they had previously posted to. Note that the weird way instance bans are handled has been solved on Piefed.

    I didn't know Mbin also did it though.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Lemmy 1.0 addresses the issue, when it comes out instance bans on Lemmy will work the same way they do on Piefed now.

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    @calmblue75@lemmy.ml explained why your comments were being perceived as problematic but you didn’t didn’t read the room. You might actually be in agreement with the community, but your choice of words reads as “a little genocide is acceptable.”

    All genocide is unacceptable. All mass murder is unacceptable. Putting the unacceptable onto a scale of better or worse is a liberal propaganda tactic that doesn’t fly in leftist spaces. Your mistake was conflating the concept of “voting to minimize harm in a captured system” with “my genocide is more ethical than their genocide,” which is a fallacy. No genocides are ethical.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    isn’t making the minimally harmful choice always ethical?
    i think it’s about morality than ethics but ethics and economics (ironically) used to be connected, and part of the same discipline. Economics being quantifiable theories, and ethics being unquantifiable.
    In this case, you could easily say any genocide is infinitely bad. So comparing one genocide to two genocides isn’t really possible… it’s an unquantifiable loss.
    however in this case, in the captured system where two parties are pretty much the only possible winner, we can make an ethical argument for voting for the “lesser genocide”, but really only because they’re both propping up the same genocidal regime, but one is much more into it, wants to develop buildings where the people were, as well as wage other genocides.
    besides, it’s much better to be able to protest without being labeled a terrorist and disappeared to some secret, third world torture prison (like cecot and liberia).
    it’s really hard to think of a worse president.
    i don’t see how “i want to stop this genocide and others” translates into “a little genocide is okay”. Or normalizing genocide…
    i remember shortly before they switched from biden to harris, harris released a statement about protestors calling them all antisemitic and completely ignoring what they were actually protesting, and i hate her with all of my heart for that.
    but she never wanted to arrest them and deport them to a foreign torture prison for life.

    even in math, some infinities are greater than others. I’ve seen interviews with palestinians that said they’d prefer Harris for the same reasons.

    like if someone said they’ll either shoot you or stab you and you get to choose, you wouldn’t say nothing because that makes a little bit of stabbing okay.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    I think the problem is that certain users chose to scape goat voters. In the end, not voting for genocide and voting for less genocide can both be seen as ethical. In either case, what followed is entirely the fault of the party that pushed the genocide as their main platform point even if it was clearly deeply unpopular and frankly ghoulish.

    I think it's also wrong to assume the dems would have done the genocide "better" than trump, and kind of silly to even present as an argument. Both are clearly in Israel's pocket and even a little genocide (it would have been a lot under both imo) is really messed up.

    The scapegoating also minimizes the genocide. Implying it should have been overlooked is softening it and what I consider Israeli propagada. It turns it into a voting issue, something we can decide on instead of what it is, essentially the world's greatest evil.

    I guess the best is to understand that it was a complex situation, but that it isn't up to voters to change what they can stomach but up to the dems to take the genocide out of the equation. Blaming voters sends the opposite message.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    I agree. In this case I think it was unfortunate wording that was perceived to carry a different meaning than intended. With discussions like this, especially among leftists, “less bad” or “less harmful” is preferred over “better,” since that carries some implied support.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago
    [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Things will always break down when the focus is only on the yin and not both the yin and yang. Wearing rose-coloured glasses only takes you so far. Sometimes you have to deal with the pus in order to clean the wound.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago

    Guy came here to complain about how he was banned for electoralist garbage and he ended up getting banned for electoralist apologia. YDM troll.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago

    Here's your medal for being banned from .ml:

    You can get it in 2 and 5 too, they tend to stack up.

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  • [–] 20 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Its absolutely hilarious that there are two types of people in this thread, people who read your comments and people who see ml so assume it must be a PTB. How about you make it easier for everyone and post those offending comments?

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    People would rather just say ml bad then do any reflection on what's going on around them. Especially when it requires them to change views

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    You could convince the vast majority of .world users to unilaterally agree with a hardcore Nazi if you said "look these evil ml tankies just censored a poor innocent liberal"

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    I mean, it works well enough for the liberals. I'd say about 60% of band from .ml are deserved, and the 40% is bullshit.

    But .world and MWoG think that if you were banned for advocating for America to invade places to "liberate" them, you're actually a victim.

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  • [+] -9 points 7 months ago (5 children)
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    [–] 9 points 7 months ago
    [–] 15 points 7 months ago (17 children)

    I 100% get that we elect our opposition not our leaders. and in the US we are only given "lesser evil", and not voting isn't helping. OP was basically bootlicking dems and being ok with their atrocities.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (16 children)

    you normally do have primaries though, you can gate keep the worst shit stains then.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    The democratic party successfully argued in court that it doesn't have to run honest primaries. It selectively protects centrist incumbents like Henry Cuellar, but not progressive incumbents like Cori Bush or Jamaal Bowman. And that's when it deigns to have primaries at all.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (14 children)

    I'm telling everyone to go participate in the primaries. you can't sit on your ass, skip the primaries, then complain why all the candidates are bad

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I vote every year, local, state, and national as well as primaries. In my state, you have to be associated with a party to vote in their primaries though so it ensures one party will not represent you essentially.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    yhea, that should be the standard. good job. I mean voting in local state federal and primary elections.

    You should be able to vote in multiple parties's primaries.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Nope, again, how my state does elections. To be in the GQP primary have to be registered for them, for Dems a democrat. If you independent you get the wonderful not able to vote for anyone's party line in the primaries.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I mean "should" as in an "ideal society". not as in "you can do that in the current system".

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Oh, thank you for the clarification. I ultimately believe though there shouldn't be parties, it's all ranked choice voting for candidates not party systems. I wish to plant that tree.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    I wish we had a comm just about this. My gut feeling is the media is purposely burying talking about the primaries so most don't go vote.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    this, if only a fraction of progressive people would hit the primaries, the entire democratic party would change. not in a slow reformist kind of way. but as in a radical change like they had when Republicans and Democrats switched sides.

    the media doesn't want that. the state doesn't want that. but we absolutely need it.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    What does it really matter if they can just use superdelegates anyway or have half the race drop out and endorse the annointed candidate.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    I think superdelegates are only for presidential primaries.

    for every other candidate there aren't superdelegates. and every elected officials that isn't bought be AIPAC counts.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Well, there's a problem here. Problems

    First is that I suspect there was both a community and instance ban since the timing is more or less instant on the c/s that aren't the one where the comment was from. You're also tagged as being both instance and community banned in that community when viewed via browser.

    So, the extra c/s aren't useful for PTB purposes since an instance ban does that. It comes up a lot.

    Anyway, it's .ml, so there's also the fact that it's kinda like jumping into a pool you've seen someone pissing in, then complaining about the urine content. Yeah, there's a lot of PTB and ptb-like modding there. However, it also tends to happen on very well known lines, so there's a factor where making any political comment that isn't 100% toeing the line is partially on the user. They're absolutely zealots regarding some subjects, so if you engage on those subjects, you can't complain much about the ban coming.

    Since it's a temp ban, which is gentle from .ml, I'm more surprised about that than a mod there issuing a ban over a democrat defense.

    Is it still bullshit that you can get banned for an otherwise on topic and politely phrased political view on a thread under a political post? Absolutely. And you should likely block the instance and be done with them rather than engage again once the ban is over. This is regular there, and expecting otherwise just isn't realistic.

    So, yeah, PTB. But also, your comments there amount to rage baiting for that instance, even though I don't think that was your intent.

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  • [–] [S] -5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    You're also tagged as being both instance and community banned in that community when viewed via browser.

    That cannot be true, the largest .ml community I can see, privacy@lemmy.ml, allows me to vote, post, and comment.

    your comments there amount to rage baiting for that instance

    I think that's absurd, given the CoC. I mean, it's clearly an "ought vs is" thing, I get that, but still a complete joke.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    That cannot be true, the largest .ml community I can see, privacy@lemmy.ml, allows me to vote, post, and comment.

    Instance bans don't actually stop you from posting. It just stops the posts and comments you make there from federating out. So if you have been instance banned, whatever you post on privacy@lemmy.ml would only be visible on lemmy.world.

    Only community bans function as hard-bans, and an instance ban currently only hard bans you from communities on an instance you have posted to.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    Re: absurdity. That's why a lot of people block the whole instance. It is absurd tbh. Yeah, it's their instance, they can do what they want, but there's a line between making a curated and ism specific space and being zealots. They don't just cross the line, they often stomp on it and attempt to obliterate it.

    Someone else already covered the fact that a ban doesn't prevent all interactions, but you can visit the instance via browser and navigate to your comments. You'll see two tags, one that says banned, the other saying something like community banned or something like that. If you're only banned from a community, and not the instance, there's not going to be both (afaik, but I do know that's the explanation I've seen given in the past). So I wasn't pulling it out of my ass.

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