This is probably a hot take, but it's because society has this weird aversion to sex even though it's necessary for us to continue existing. This aversion extends to sex work in general and is also the reason why the field has so many problems.
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people think it's easy money and get jealous
and people like that never realize just how much work actually goes into it (speaking from personal experience here)
One modern issue is that sites like OnlyFans has caused is a unique type of spam as various models spam in a lot of places in order to build their audience.
american puratism has infected the world.
Anyone who works a job they hate for a boss they hate, for not enough money, is the same as any prostitute. They should stop being so judgemental.
The first is a form of coercion as well.
Who do you know that goes to work for fun, and not to make ends meet?
I work with several such people in my department. I prefer not to reveal much information about my work but I'll just say it's with electronics.
Three of them are retired and one of them works for us in his spare time when he's not traveling across the country for his "main" job. The later one offered to do the work for free because all he really wanted out of the job was to learn how the work is done and how he can do the same work for his retired father.
Of the other three one recently had a second "retirement" because he no longer had the spare time and now cares for his wife full time. Another one recently had an argument with management because he wasn't logging all of his hours on the job while working from home and would regularly do additional work that he wasn't being paid for.
I've also had one prior side gig type of job where I know some people did it for fun while getting some cash on the side in the entertainment industry and another job with a similar situation in sports.
I'm not going to pretend much of this is very normal by current standards and I'm certain the majority of people involved were also motivated by having at least an additional source of income, but there absolutely are people who even within our current economic system go to work for the fun of it. But the only ones I've ever met who do it are people who no longer need to worry about making ends meet.
I feel like I have to do my job to make ends meet - how is that different from sex work? Coercion is a different story
Fact is, we humans make quite surplus enough for everyone to make ends meet. Your job is a form of coercion, to make others money. That health care in the U.S. is tied to one's job is evidence of that. That housing is dependent on mortgages being paid consistently or one risks homelessness is more evidence still. Taxes are coercion by governments to give credence to fiat currency, not because they need it to pay for goods and services... they could print money to pay for goods if that weren't true. Point is jobs are coercion, and sex workers are under the same pressures I described above, enough that I doubt any sex worker is in it just for their love of the game.
And thus... Sex work is no different to the others
Then why so many sex workers die from drug overdose?
Why do so many people in other jobs die from a drug overdose? Because the world sucks
Sex workers face mortality rates from overdose that dwarf the general population. We're talking about an external-cause mortality risk roughly 8-12 times higher for these marginalized groups. The direct link is undeniable: studies show a significant history of substance dependence (100% in one cohort) with opioids involved in ~90% of those fatal events. It's crucial to note these are likely "conservative estimates" because many records don't capture sex work status.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12405828/
The driving factor isn't the work itself, but the trauma surrounding it. You see a high burden of PTSD, anxiety, and depression that predates or coincides with substance use. For many, the drug use, especially "polysubstance" mixing of opioids and benzos, is a form of self-medication to numb the violence and stigma
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acps.13559
The overdose is often a direct consequence of criminalization and policing. Research shows that when police target sex workers or create barriers to safe consumption sites, the odds of a fatal overdose more than double (AOR 2.15)
I agree with what you've said but I don't consider these things as caused by the job, rather symptomatic of how the job is treated in society (and how poorly regulated human trafficking for sex work is)
Of course, but it is the reason why I would not want any woman to be a sex worker in the current capitalist bigoted society.
We are not free. We are just able to choose from a limited selection of approved choices or face retribution, or maybe you can't even get a choice and that is seen as a personal failing.
needing to perform sexuality in order to make ends meet is a form of coercion. Like if someone has to grant access to their body, under threat of starvation or homelessness or whatever, that's coercion. I don't know how many sex workers are out there with a couple jobs lined up an then say "nah i'd rather do sex work" but within the current framework of gig economies and legally grey/restricted labor I bet it's not a significant amount.
if someone has to grant access to their body, under threat of starvation or homelessness
But that's employment in a nutshell, though. A welder rents out his body to a company to weld steel beams for 8 hours a day. An accountant rents out their body to sit behind a desk for 8 hours a day and crunch numbers. A salesperson rents out their body to cold-call for 8 hours a day.
No matter what, we're coerced into giving or body to perform someone else's labour. The fact that it doesn't always involve nudity doesn't change anything vis a vis your bodily autonomy.
None of them rent out intimate access to their bodies, it's stupid to think that an account sitting behind the desk is just like a sex worker. Clearly one is in a more preferalble job. Clearly the welder has a better option to barter or organize for collective action, clearly those jobs would still exist in a society where destitute women didn't whereas the porn industry as it currently is would die out
"Intimate" is a completely subjective term. Some people, like it or not, don't consider nudity to be intimate and are therefore more than happy to use it to their advantage. Just because you wouldn't, doesn't make you the arbiter or what is or isn't considered intimate.
So, as you say "Clearly being the more preferable job" is a meaningless statement. A vegan wouldn't rent out their body to work in a slaughterhouse. A pacifist wouldn't rent out their body to the military. Just because you wouldn't rent out your body for people to enjoy on the internet doesn't make it objectively worse than any other profession. It's just your perspective.
I'm not saying that there aren't issues in the porn industry. Of course there are, tonnes of them. But renting out your body to perform manual labour or renting out your body for people to look at on the internet are not as different as you think.
That rings true for every single job - I mean individual coercion
and yet some of those jobs would exist in a society without destitute women, whereas the porn industry as it currently is, wouldn't.
I am personally friends with multiple women (and non women) who do sex work (some do porn) instead of other, more mundane jobs that they are fully qualified to do. There are issues with the industry for fucking SURE but lets not pretend that everybody in it is a hostage, as an excuse to belittle those who work in SW.
All work is done through coercition Some coercition are worst than other, but the all the worst one are not only in sex works. Fighting for emancipation is done by the workers themselves, not aqainst them
Other people do a lot of shit to make ends meet.
Hazardous backbreaking work and being treated like shit in a minimum wage job.
And you have a problem with people who have the choice to be their own boss and work on their own terms?
So you're basically saying you're against it.
You can't do it if you're coerced, and not by your own choice to make money.
Do you also have a problem with 99% of people who work to make ends meet, not for fun.
No, that's only one reason you mentioned.
You also said you are against it "to make ends meet".
If they're not coerced, a valid reason to be against it, then it's nobody's business how they choose to get their money.
If they choose sex work over janitorial or whatever shit work it's their right and there's nothing wrong with it.
Whats going on??? There's obviously a difference between a cashier or warehouse worker being forced into their labour than a sex worker forced to sell intimate access to their body?? "Their own boss" what kind of liberalism is this???? This just flattens all the discourse around "sex work as work" into "wow they just perform a service like my mechanic it's literally the same thing!" Fuck off with that bullshit.
I'm just gonna quote some marx here for all you people that think all labor is equally good and everyone just chooses freely what they want to do
The economists tell us, to be sure, that those labourers who have been rendered superfluous by machinery find new venues of employment. They dare not assert directly that the same labourers that have been discharged find situations in new branches of labour. Facts cry out too loudly against this lie. Strictly speaking, they only maintain that new means of employment will be found for other sections of the working class; for example, for that portion of the young generation of labourers who were about to enter upon that branch of industry which had just been abolished. Of course, this is a great satisfaction to the disabled labourers. There will be no lack of fresh exploitable blood and muscle for the Messrs. Capitalists—the dead may bury their dead. This consolation seems to be intended more for the comfort of the capitalists themselves than their labourers. If the whole class of the wage-labourer were to be annihilated by machinery, how terrible that would be for capital, which, without wage-labour, ceases to be capital!
But even if we assume that all who are directly forced out of employment by machinery, as well as all of the rising generation who were waiting for a chance of employment in the same branch of industry, do actually find some new employment—are we to believe that this new employment will pay as high wages as did the one they have lost? If it did, it would be in contradiction to the laws of political economy. We have seen how modern industry always tends to the substitution of the simpler and more subordinate employments for the higher and more complex ones. How, then, could a mass of workers thrown out of one branch of industry by machinery find refuge in another branch, unless they were to be paid more poorly?
LOL the moral police got triggered hard I see.
Yeah being against the commodification of womens bodies and nonconsensual sex is just being the moral police 🤮
Woman can do what they want, cry about it repressed biblethumper.
yeah I'm sure they're really stoked to be fueling your goonsessions. disgusting. fucking libs start frothing everytime someone dares call out the oppression required to maintain their treatlerite life.
I feast on your tears little frustrated nasty man
blocking you now loser, I would slam the door in your biblethumping face but you're unfortunately behind a keyboard in your mom's basement.
Probably molesting your little cousin or whatever perversions you repressed fanatics do
Nah, they're right about this one and you're wrong.
the oppression required to maintain their treatlerite life.
If you don't feel the same way about fast food workers, convenience store clerks, and baristas, your problem isn't with the exploitation, it's with the sex.
No it isn't. It's more like gig work if anything but often operates in legally gray/illegal areas with less if any chance to unionise. It's harder work than retail, leaves you with less options in your social life, pays barely enough to get by, and is way way more intrusive to the laborer. it's clearly not like other work. If there were no women left in the margins of society with no option, nothing to sell but access to their bodies then the porn industry as we know would die out. It's such an idealistic view to think that a woman chooses to become a sex worker the same way she applies to be a barista or fast food worker.
Also "her own boss" is how libs try to sell the gig economy that leaves the laborers destitute and desperate, be it uber eats or whatever else. Any john/client whatever should be treated with the same scorn as a landlord, a predator preying on less fortunate.
leaves you with less options in your social life, pays barely enough to get by, and is way way more intrusive to the laborer. it's clearly not like other work.
Yeah, I forgot about all the incredibly fulfilling fast food and coffee jobs that pay a living wage and are easy to get by on.
It clearly is like any other service work, unless you believe sex is a magical, special sphere of human activity. And if you do, then you're thinking magically and not materialistically.
It clearly is like any other service work, unless you believe sex is a magical, special sphere of human activity
love having my reasons ascribed to me when I already laid them out, clearly I'm just a dullard while you have seen every possible argument one could make. Enjoy your sex treats I'm done wiht you all.
Clearly you don't love having the giant Bronze-age patriarchal bullshit sized holes in your reasoning pointed out.
Go on pretending anyone who isn't exactly the same kind of ascetic you are is just a "Treatlerite". It definitely doesn't make you look ridiculous to leftists and liberals alike.
My opinion is that, if you ignore the judeo-christian prudishness, it comes down to two things.
First, some jealousy. It looks like easy money, and they're having sex (in the case of porn actors), so there's this almost subconscious anger that someone else found a trick to "get rich". Thing is with that, the only people getting rich in porn were/are the producers. Only fans shifted that a little, but the company takes a cut like any asshole pimp would. I've actually heard people irl express things that lead me to believe this is a common factor.
Second is the fact that a large swath of people, even though otherwise open minded and unconcerned about sex issues, still think that the only reason one would sell their sexuality is because they can't do better. It's the whole thing where humans like to piss downhill. Anyone doing something that a person considers "below" them is gong to be seen as inherently flawed. That doesn't apply only to porn, btw.
Hell, I fall prey to the trope that anyone doing porn must have some kind of trauma, if I don't pay attention to myself. It is true that porn as it exists in this world is marginalized, and heavily staffed by sufferers of trauma. It actually is one of those jobs where people that have serious mental health problems and/or drug dependency get drawn to because it's relatively easy to find and keep income compared to other jobs when you have those issues.
Since porn is marginalized, there is a significant portion of the on screen workers that don't have many other options. It's super easy for someone young, undereducated, and desperate to end up being paid to show their body or fuck. Since someone in that situation is going to get paid less doing anything else they could find, the industry is heavily weighted towards that population (partially because of the ease of finding desperate people, and mostly because the desperate are easier to exploit and abuse).
Only fans runs closer to neutral since it is based in individuals. So while abuse occurs, and there's a lot wrong with the company, the real abuse only happens when an outside person is forcing a model or models to perform. Not that porn is free of trafficking and forced labor, but it's less useful to do that for porn when there's easier ways to exploit someone there.
That's my take anyway. It's based on casual conversations with people that object to porn in its various guises, and the rest from casual exposure to interviews and conversations with adult performers
They don’t. Generally, nobody cares. The few that do are just so damn loud you'd think there was a lot of them.
Personally, I think influencer/hustle culture, parasocial relations, personal "brands" are a rot on society coming from the worst parts of capitalism. The influencer benefits from alienation and I think that's wrong. I don't think an OF model is any worse than any other influencer. I also think a lot of OF models didn't feel they had many options when they started. But the really successful ones could get out or be less parasocial or something.
Because most cultures have been heavily influenced by cultures descended from the bronze age sheep fuckers who came up with the idea of virginity as a way of ensuring paternity and maximizing the price they could charge for selling their preteen daughters to old men.
Sex is still seen as a Taboo. It's 2026 guys, come on!
Sex work is work.If someone hates on a sex workers, me thinks they doth protest too much.
I respect sex workers but I really don't want to be advertised to while I'm jerking off, or ever really. Like if i'm in the market for buying nudes I'll come to you. I have nothing against anyone who buys or sells pics on onlyfans.
how do find these people if they can't market themselves? (honest question)
At places where they can market those things. There aren't any? They can make them.
They have in the past, with several subreddits, and I'm pretty sure some Lemmy servers also have communities for it. But the real issue is marketing morals vs profit.
Direct marketing and ads where there is natural traffic(Such as Instagram, and other social networks) generates a fuckton more revenue than posting on a space by and for makers.
Personally, all the marketing directed at me makes me leave, be it sexual or not. When I am advertised at, I just stop using the service. And when I want to consume, I look for it in places where the makers are in as much control as possible, and I can actually get my money's worth.
Sometimes I just want to see, so I subscribe to makers I like and who advertise in places for that. Do I know they don't do direct marketing? I do not, but at least they're posting in the places for it.
If I want something more specific or custom made? I put on a request message, or search for makers that take requests and actually have discussions with potential customers, I keep it short, sweet and to the point because I understand they are not my friends, time is money and this is their job, and honestly, I have become friends with some, and even helped some who wanted to leave the businesses and work in something more stable or compatible with their wants and needs. I used to do sex work when I was young, so I don't judge, but also have high standards.
So long as it’s entirely consensual for all who’s involved and every one is of adult age I don’t see the problem …
Some people genuinely have a problem with it.
But I’m convinced that the majority of it is just: It’s embarrassing (and therefore costs social capital) to defend it.
So therefore: If you attach it to something else you want to attack, you just gave yourself a strategic advantage.
my issue...
they are just ads with tits. (yes, I'm being blunt). they come into social settings and post images or whatever, and it's just yo... you with the penis. give me money because I have tits.
overall, I have no issue with the site. but FFS .. STAY ON THAT SITE. don't come here and advertise your ass cheese. its annoying and the majority dgaf.
this applies to onlyfans because pornstars... well they don't do that shit. they keep their crap to normal ads (which still suck) and their sites. I have respect for pornstars, I have no respect for onlyfans 'gimmie money' clowns
Apparently one of the reasons for advertising off-site is because OF does not have an on-site discovery mechanism. So there really aren't other options. Not the fault of the performers.
Bro has failed to consider male sex work, or sex work not aimed at people with penises.
In all seriousness this is giving big "I'm OK with gays but can they just not shove it in my face?" energy. Reevaluate how your phrase this argument.
tell me you hate women without telling me you hate women
Sex workers face mortality rates from overdose that dwarf the general population. We're talking about an external-cause mortality risk roughly 8-12 times higher for these marginalized groups. The direct link is undeniable: studies show a significant history of substance dependence (100% in one cohort) with opioids involved in ~90% of those fatal events. It's crucial to note these are likely "conservative estimates" because many records don't capture sex work status.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12405828/
The driving factor isn't the work itself, but the trauma surrounding it. You see a high burden of PTSD, anxiety, and depression that predates or coincides with substance use. For many, the drug use, especially "polysubstance" mixing of opioids and benzos, is a form of self-medication to numb the violence and stigma
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acps.13559
The overdose is often a direct consequence of criminalization and policing. Research shows that when police target sex workers or create barriers to safe consumption sites, the odds of a fatal overdose more than double (AOR 2.15)
I dated a cam girl for a while, (insert the obligatory “it’s not dating if you’re paying her lul” joke here), and she smoked a quarter per day. It was the only way she could tolerate the work.
Given, she was damned good at her job. She made more in 4 hours of streaming than my roommate and I made in a week combined. She literally made enough to cover her rent and bills in like three or four hours of work. So she could definitely afford to smoke that much, because basically everything after that first stream was disposable income for her. But she would get done with her stream and immediately hit a bowl to try and forget the work. And she’d basically be stoned until her next stream was scheduled to start.
If she had ever graduated to harder drugs, she 100% would have OD’ed. However, it’s also a little disingenuous to compare streamers/OnlyFans models with in-person sex workers. There’s a level of compartmentalization that online sex work creates. It’s definitely still reliant on building a parasocial relationship, but you’re not actually sleeping with Johns in person. Unless you’re doxxed, there’s very little personal risk involved. But with in-person sex work, all of that is inverted. Online sex work is obviously still sex work, but it’s definitely a different type of sex work.
It’s like comparing retail work with an Amazon warehouse. Both jobs suck in their own way, and they’re both fulfilling the same basic purpose of getting products to customers. But very few people would say that they’re the same job, and the stressors associated with each are unique.
While yes, I agree that OnlyFans is sex work, I disagree with lumping the general "prostitute" from the street/brothel with the onlyfans/sex cam worker.
The remote nature keeps unsavory folk away by default (under the assumption that they arent doxxed) while sex work in person is, well, in person.
I think a lot of hate comes from:
- People who are jealous of people with natural looks
- People are jealous of people who have more motivation than them to exercise and keep their bodies healthy
- Men who exercise and work on their bodies but can't make any money from it
yep, lots of jealousy
and they never realize just how much work is actually involved
for real this topic always comes along when my bf jokes about opening an OF together
i bluntly respond with "yeah we just need to market ourselves on elon's twitter for months with teasers and maybe paying for that blue mark while networking with other creators"
You forgot:
- Bitter incels
Men who exercise and work on their bodies but can’t make any money from it
I mean they can, there are many male OF models and some don't even work out, you only need to find your place in the market (usually with a kink)
I mean they can, there are many male OF models and some don't even work out, you only need to find your place in the market (usually with a kink)
For sure! I didn't mean "they can't make money" as in "men can't make any money". That'd be absurd.
I meant that "those angry individuals can't make money from it". And maybe they could if they tried, but they're not trying, so they can't.
i wish i had this realization when i was younger. lol
back then, i was deeply confused when i learned that people were getting off to a surreptitiously recorded hookup that featured me because i assumed no fancied me; yet there was in in my full glory laughing at the wailing coming from the man i'm pleasuring and the video had over 100k likes/upvotes.
it wouldn't have made me a millionaire; but it would have gotten me a hell of a lot closer than i will ever be. lol
and at least i got a husband out of the whole affair; i like silver linings. lol
damn that sounds hot no wonder it got many likes lol
you would be surprised, a friend of mine got popular with their low quality gay orgy videos and now lives on Canada and its part of a polycule
If there was a basic income there would be a lot less people in the porn industry. There still would be people in the porn industry though because those ones enjoy the work.
Its the bots and getting it shoved down your throat. on every app with a non neglable user base you will see countless bots/grifters swarm popular posts.
its kinda like the furry comunity. The vocal minority destroyes the public image


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