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[–] 34 points 7 months ago

Yes, it's different this time:

In the past, people have often used tools from calculators to GPS systems for a kind of task-specific “cognitive offloading,” strategically delegating some jobs to reliable automated algorithms while using their own internal reasoning to oversee and evaluate the results. But the researchers argue that AI systems have given rise to a categorically different form of “cognitive surrender” in which users provide “minimal internal engagement” and accept an AI’s reasoning wholesale without oversight or verification. This “uncritical abdication of reasoning itself” is particularly common when an LLM’s output is “delivered fluently, confidently, or with minimal friction,” they point out.

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  • [–] 21 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Many (most?) people have always relied on somebody or something else to do the thinking for them.

    AI can just be added to the long, long list of sources people so inclined uncritically accept.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    AI doesn't object, or ask for compensation, and, it sits in their pocket, available 24/7, and the responses it gives are sycophantic. There's a difference between relying on humans to do their thinking, and relying on a computer.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • 36 comments in c/publichealth@mander.xyz view that post
    [–] 38 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    Yada yada here's the open-access paper.

    (I usually provide these links neutrally, but I'll make a point here: in a public health community, it may be worth requiring linking to a paper on top of the news article covering it – especially if it's open-access. Ars here is mercifully concerned with methodology; many outlets don't give a shit.)

    Conclusion is as follows (for expedience; I encourage reading other parts):

    As AI becomes ubiquitous in society, understanding how it reshapes human thought is essential. Tri-System Theory [author's note: introduced in this paper; tenuous to call it a "theory" on that basis] offers a new framework for this cognitive frontier. By introducing System 3 (Artificial) as a distinct and external reasoning process, we move beyond the classical architecture of dual-process theories and chart a new decision-making paradigm: one where intuition, deliberation, and artificial cognition coexist, compete, or converge. We show that people not only use System 3 to assist with reasoning, but often surrender to its outputs whether correct or flawed. This cognitive surrender illustrates the value and integration of System 3, but also highlights the vulnerability of System 3 usage. Similar to how System 1-driven heuristics lead to systematic biases, System 3 has differential cognitive shortcomings that will challenge decision-makers and society at large.

    Tri-System Theory is not a warning about AI’s dangers but a recognition of System 3’s psychological presence. We do not merely use AI; we think with it. [author's note] In doing so, we must ask new questions: What happens when our judgments are shaped by minds not our own? What becomes of intuition and effort when a generative, artificial partner stands ready to answer? How do we preserve agency, reflection, and autonomy in a world where users engage in cognitive surrender? We offer Tri-System Theory as a conceptual foundation for understanding these challenges. It is a theory for an age of human-AI algorithmic cognition, and for the decision-makers, researchers, and designers shaping that future

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I think this paper is overly exoticizing AI. People have always been externalizing deliberation to others, be they parents, friends, bosses, partners, gods, spirits, journalists, advertisers, superstitions, tarot cards, or rubber ducks.

    Perhaps it is worth calling all of these "system 3", but I see no reason to separate LLMs from them. Our judgment has never been our own entirely, and even if there is nobody else to defer to we can defer to "what they would do".

    We accept that these external sources are flawed and can give us bad advice that we follow, but we keep listening as long as we think that is made up for by good advice or other factors.

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    If you're willing to abandon your thinking to AI, I'm guessing you weren't too attached to it in the first place.

    If we let people freely continue in this manner, we're going to evolve into two separate species, one of which we might as well call the Eloi, completely unable to think or perform any tasks for themselves.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    I get you, but it's important nuance that cognitive surrender is closely associated with external incentives and time pressure. If you're being paid to do a boring task, e.g., and you don't have enough time to do it, using AI is just the path of least resistance. I don't condone it, but I can clearly see how it happens. It's fun to talk shit on idiots though, as well.

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    "ChatGPT, how should I feel about this?"

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I wonder if being religious is a factor in which group you belong in.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    The vast majority of Cults are not religious so I doubt it would be a strong correlation.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    I don’t know if I can name even one irreligious cult but I can name dozens of religious ones.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    That says more about how you are only open to seeing religious cults as cults and do not see other thought terminating ideologically charged movements as cults.

    A worship of capitalism as "natural" is a cult, fad diets are 10000% all cults, multi-level-marketing schemes are cults. Cults are EVERYWHERE, identifying only the outwardly religious as cults is to only see the tip of the iceberg.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Religion has been doing this for centuries.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Maybe... But I guess so does branding of many sorts. People rarely question the efficiency and/or safety (or the moral integrity in the manufacturing process) of a lot of products. Foods, cosmetics and medicines would be the first categories that spring to mind which are regularly abused and misused by population at large.

    So yes my point being perhaps religion has been doing this for centuries but it's not like there wasn't any other case

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    I’m seeing this, even in intelligent people. They expect they can just keep prompting and reach a 100% correct answer that needs no human verification. Looks like an earlier phase of AI Psychosis to me.

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  • The whole point of ai is to train people out of critical thinking. It started with shitting all over / underfunding the arts, then turning schools into employee training camps and now, to remove any last residue of free thought, ai to fill the gaps.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    I dunno, I find this entirely unsurprising. And I bet this also correlates strongly with political identity too: authoritarians love gullible idiots that vote for them. Humanity is fucking stupid in aggregate

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Wouldn't they... have to have some logical thinking in the first place... ?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    I think a very good amount of AI users are like this....

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    In general, “fluent, confident outputs [are treated] as epistemically authoritative, lowering the threshold for scrutiny and attenuating the meta-cognitive signals that would ordinarily route a response to deliberation,” they write.

    People have always conflated confidence with ability and knowledge. That's why so many positions of power are occupied by confident bullshitters. It seems like that tendency transfers over to people's interactions with LLMs.

    It would be interesting to experiment with an LLM trained to sound less confident and more tentative or self-deprecatory. Maybe the results would be different.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    "those who treat AI as a powerful but sometimes faulty service that needs careful human oversight and review to detect reasoning or factual flaws in responses" Yep.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Reddit comments are a shining example of this.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)
    [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Oh, so we've amalgamated all the Facebook conspiracy theories with 4chan conspiracy theories, along with whatever % garbage political messagin,g everyone's major religious texts, and basically the sum off all art, knowledge, and advertising that was available on the Internet at the time.

    Of I were real honest, I'd say that last one is the one that really bothers me. The vast majority of our modern media is dumb ads. Really, since the Victorian era. My unscientific guess is that the bulk of modern media is designed to weedle past your logic to make your emotions want to buy various petroleum products.

    And out off all that mess we're expecting what?

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    So like with any other tech or tool, there are two groups of people... Tale old as the world.

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  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    This makes clearer that critical-thinking can't be a mere add-on, it has to be the bedrock of people's capability, ideally of 4/5ths of the population as a minimum-standard, XOR social-highjacking by ideologies & AI is certain.

    Unless someone's identity is including critical-thinking, then they're prone to cognitive abdication, either to ideology or to LLM, both are the same fundamental abdication.

    I didn't know that LLMs were gaining the same abdication that ideologies have been gaining, but .. now that that paper mentions some evidence, it looks clear.

    ( "religions" are another highjacker of minds.. all religions which displace critical-thinking do the same thing.

    For anybody who claims that religion always displaces critical-thinking, you've obviously no experience with Vajrayana style ruthlessly-correct reasoning.

    I say Vajrayana style, but it could well be pervasive throughout the different south Asian branches of AwakeSoulism/Buddhism: I don't know.

    Western philosophy is mushy-as-hell, by Vajrayana's standards for objectivity & correctness )

    _ /\ _

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Sorry, but you obviously know nothing about Western philosophy if you think that it as "mushy" and contain no logical thinking. It is the exact opposite. Religion is another story, though. Don't conflate the two.

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  • 16 comments in c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 44 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    I mentioned that I don’t use AI today, and the person I was talking to was really surprised. They didn’t understand how I could not use AI for anything.

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  • [–] 30 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    its almost like the world has been turning for millions of years without it

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Partly why I support age-gating some things are the scary stories I hear from schoolteachers I know: about whole classrooms of kids that have trouble concentrating on anything for more than 60 seconds, or how they hear every day: "If AI can do this, why do I have to learn it in the first place?"

    (And don't come at me about age gating because I don't care to argue about it.)

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    I saw somebody in work upload a firewall config xml and start querying if stuff was blocked. I actually thought it was a pretty clever use of it.

    I probably wouldn’t trust it to write a config and upload it back, but for an assistant to an untrained eye it was pretty solid.

    I’ve also used copilot for silly things like

    “Take these 10 lines of process steps, make them sound professional and format them for easy reading”.

    Stuff like that isn’t my job, but when it lands on my desk it’s a quick way to get it down and back to what I’m supposed to be focussing on.

    This is a long way of saying, there are definitely use cases, but nobody’s being replaced.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    I saw somebody in work upload a firewall config xml and start querying if stuff was blocked. I actually thought it was a pretty clever use of it.

    I would find it some place between worrisome and you-should-lose your-job, depending on how important that firewall is. This might seem exaggerated, but if your colleague had showed that config to a child, and then asked them yes and no questions, a game to which the child happily participated in. I would consider that exactly as reasonable, and exactly as responsible, as asking an LLM. Imagine someone doing this, for an important firewall config... and taking the child's answers at face value. It should be fair to think that this person is grossly unqualified, and showing a dangerous lack of judgment.

    And, that's just the issues I would have regarding using a bullshit generator as a source of truth. If the firewall config could be considered sensitive information, uploading that to a third party, would be grounds for dismissal for entirely separate reasons.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    I wonder what made them imagine an LLM could answer questions that involve reasoning about firewall configurations. It's just not the kind of thing LLMs are good at, since they can't parse something specialist like that or create a model then simulate applying the rules one by one to evaluate the end state. An LLM will improvise a plausible-sounding answer based on similar-looking questions and answers in its training data, and that's not trustworthy at all.

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  • [–] 58 points 7 months ago

    A lot of people never adopted logical thinking in the first place.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago

    Not surprising. We always want to take the path of least resistance. I mean 20 years ago, you could access the world's information via the internet, but you had to know how to search for things. We slowly went from that to "I'll just google it." and "Well, google says." Now that we have LLM's (which IMHO are mostly just fancier, faster google search) we have people legitimately saying "let me ask ChatGPT" and "ChatGPT says."

    I think there is a positive future for LLM's and true AI, but its not right now, and it definitely is not in the hands of capitalists.

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    But LLM's are bad at math and logic.

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah, thats kinda the problem, they couldn't think for themselves, and would rather trust a hallucinating autocomplete program

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    would rather trust a hallucinating autocomplete program

    I mean, outsourcing your thinking would still negatively affect your cognitive capabilities even if you were to rely on something actually intelligent.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago
    [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, what a new and scary thing that started with AI and nothing else ever. Jfc, AI has been the best thing for liberal moralistic arguments of social degeneracy since social media.

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  • 7 comments in c/science@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 9 points 7 months ago* (5 children)

    This works well with my AI-as-shackles theory. I’m assuming the rich will use AI to enslave us, and this article makes that scenario seem much easier for them to achieve.

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    lol as if we aren't already enslaved to the rich in this last stage capitalist hellhole

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Sorry I couldn't read this comment, I was busy binging a netflix series / doomscrolling twitter or facebook / shopping on amazon or temu / wallowing in depression due to a lack of hobbies, nightlife, affordable housing and other necessities / getting bombed by the Russians / ... ah, who am I kidding, I'm just illiterate 🤷

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    the shackles are already in the heads of the people. if you can't think for yourself then llm isnt much different from your regular propaganda from tv or papers, except it functions better.

    Llm is tool for control.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Humanity could actually have reached it's pinnacle in the recent years. Now it's just gonna go downside, with people unable to accomplish to most basic logical operations without ai.

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  • 1 comment in c/psychology@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    There’s a huge amount of dolts who think AI magically knows the answers to everything and is always right.

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