Why would you call something "plant based" when it uses a lot of plastic which after short time degrades and exposes it to the environment?

let's see who you really are meme; first image: plant based leather; second image: PU

all 77 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 42 points 7 months ago

Polyurethane couldn’t sell the couches because it simply as sexy as plant-based leather.

  • source
  • [–] 37 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I do hobby-level leatherworking and I'm all here for real non-animal leathers but yeah, basically all of them, cactus, mango, pineapple leaf etc. all just get put on a PU backing...

    I got excited for cork leather at one point but turns out that is also either PU backed or fabric backed (which is better but doesn't really work as a direct replacement for leather, especially structurally).

    There are a few I'm more excited for and I would love to get hold of but they still seem either experimental or used directly by the makers for their own finished products. Most are fungus based, so one is SCOBY leather, basically the big blob of microorganisms used to make kombucha can be grown in big flat sheets, dried and treated to make a leathery material but I've not seen many applications of it yet...

    But mushroom/mycelial leather is the one I'm most hopeful for. Not only do some of them look like real leather but the random 'grain' of the mycelium has the potential to ape the natural fibrous grain of leather that gives it its strength. That is the one I'm really excited for.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 67 points 7 months ago

    I guess petroleum came from plant.

  • source
  • [–] 30 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    Vegan leather is what they call plastic imitation leather nowadays

  • source
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [–] 30 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

    And it's fucking terrible compared to real leather. It'll start flaking or cracking after a year, it's fucking dangerous around fire, it offers no fucking insulation or protection, it's shit.

    A problem in the fire performer community is that novices will grab it thinking it's the same as real leather, or because they oppose real leather, and we always have to pull them aside and give em a stern talk about how dangerous it is

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    I had a pair of boots that I used 9 months a year in Swedish climate for roughly 10 years without a hitch. They also went for hikes in Costa Rica and across India and Nepal. At the end they looked worn but were still functional as I swapped them out for another pair of vegan leather boots.

    I've had other vegan shoes that lasted a lot shorter but that can be said about my animal skin shoes as well.

    Modern bio-leather causes about 10% off the emissions leather does and doesn't have the same tanning process which is extremely toxic.

    Not saying that vegan is strictly better, but rumours of it's crappiness are severely out of date.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    I definitely haven't had the same experience. Anything I get that is pleather ends up breaking down sooner rather than later (especially thrifted pleather). Hell, my favorite pair of pleather pants recently lost a dish sized area by the crotch, and those were bought new from a brand I trust. Virtually every pair of pleather boots has ended up in the trash, and I currently have a long pleather skirt that basically ripped from floor to waist that I'm still deciding whether to fix or not.

    I will add the disclaimer that I'm an experienced leatherworker which affects my bias

    I rarely get real leather new, and when it fails it's rarely the actual leather. I have a jacket I thrifted about a decade ago that is still going strong, though I've had to replace the buttons a few times. My most recent leather boots survived multiple camping trips and heavy use, until the plastic zipper broke. Even my leatherwork mainly uses repurposed scraps. At this point my partner and I refuse to buy/use a daily purse that is anything but leather because of how long it lasts. It's worth repairing leather, it's not worth repairing pleather.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    Technically if they are organic matter compressed over eons into polycarbons, they're still dinosaurs, so not vegan

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Well a lot of it turns out to be dead trees not dinosaurs, but I'm sure I'll get "um actually" but someone who is a bigger expert

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 51 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    Not all plant based leather uses plastic. It's unfortunate that plant+plastic mixes are allowed to call themselves plant based leather.

  • source
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    "Real" leather (A.K.A. someone else's skin) is also usually coated in plastic and processed with extremely harmful chromium salts, so it's usually not any better than the worst leather alternative.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    And veg tan? I try not to use chrome tan in stuff I make for both environmental reasons and the fact its a pain to work with but we have been veg tanning for thousands of years.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    we've (as human) been doing things for thousands of years, which was barely noticeable because there were less than a billion of us until the 1800s, less than 400 million until 1400s and the obvs even less before

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    My point was more that harmful chemicals in the sense of chromium salts etc. aren't present in veg tan which, for the most part, is boiling it in a load of tree bark.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] -4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    While the conclusion of this argument is valid your premises don't follow a logical sequence. Firstly, leather is defined as a material obtained from rawhide which is tanned (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather) - this is real leather, there is no need for calls to ignorance here.

    Secondly, what do mean by referring to "someone else's"? Because the common usage for such statements usually mean human, not non-human animals. This essentially looks like an emotional appeal at this point.

    Thirdly, you state that it is common for leather to be coated in plastic. While this is technically correct - as large portion of the market is composed of reusing scraps, it dismisses leather production from virgin rawhide and processes using vegetable or synthetic tanning which don't need plastic for the resultant product.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Herdbeasts are sentient: they are "others".

    They don't want to be slaughtered: we care more about using meat from their bodies for a momentary meal than we care about their lives-themselves.

    That is OUR values.

    & our being sociopathic doesn't make sociopathy universally-right or universally-valid.

    ( I'm not vegan, but universe has beaten learning into me until I've come around to seeing the prejudice in our whole "civilized" "relationship" with reality )

    TTBOMK, vegetable-tanning isn't done as much because it costs more.

    & the original person's comment about chromium-salts looks spot-on, & was ignored by your counter.

    Just pointing out some stuff for objectivity, is all: integrity's a precious-resource, & it takes all of us being loyal to it, to make it remain in our world.

    _ /\ _

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    They don't want to be slaughtered

    there is no proof they know that they, themselves might die. they don't want to be slaughtered any more than they don't want to be ceo of beyond meat. they don't know it's even a possibility.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    I can definitively agree on the explanation stated infering the second point. However, it is an aspect which needs further clarification, like op said: "someone else's skin" is usualy interpreted as human directed (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/someone). This essentially introduces double meaning within the argument.

    In terms of vegetable tanning your best knowledge is correct, it costs more as it requires substantially more time thats why it is only used for higher end or artisan leather. Additionally, I have stated synthetic tanning which is comparable to vegetable, but not as bad as chromium.

    & the original person's comment about chromium-salts looks spot-on, & was ignored by your counter.

    In regards to that, can you provide relevant information which details it?

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I thought the point of the stuff was to avoid killing animals.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    Yes. Plastic is actually a great material for anything you don't want to break down.

    If you want something that doesn't break down until you want it to, and then breaks down, you might be asking too much. I'm not even sure animal leather qualifies after the chemical tanning process.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago

    Just because a movie is "based" on a book doesn't mean the movie is made of paper.

    Checkmate vegetables.

  • source
  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago

    It's almost as if another common term for vegan leather is PU Leather

  • source
  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Cause they know fools love buzzz words. That’s why I couldn’t find margarine until I realized it’s now “plant butter”

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    I think everything labeled "plant butter" is vegan, whereas "margarine" can contain both plant and animal fats. I don't think that's regulated, but I think that's how those terms are used in practice. I always check the labels just to be sure, of course.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago*

    Yeah I've had it with Will's Vegan Shoes. They use https://www.viridis-leather.it/faq.html and say it's "bio-based leather" but if you go to the link:

    Is it recycled, recyclable or biodegradable?

    No, it’s not but it expresses its sustainable content because it’s mainly produced using by-products from corn and wheat instead of petrolium based products. Bio polyols always available as renewable resources.

    Which type of PU is Viridis® made of?

    43 % of PU made using polyols coming from corn and wheat, 31 % of normal PU.

  • source
  • [–] 35 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    I don't really understand all the hate/cynicism towards vegan leather. Like yeah obviously plastic is bad for the environment, but raising cows and dumping thousands of tons of chromium into rural waterways for the tanning process aren't good either. Leather is actually far worse for the environment by some metrics.

    Plus there's the fact that most leather is sealed with plastic/acrylic to increase its longevity anyway, unless you're buying something wicked expensive.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [+] -11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Plastic is just as bad for the environment, not to mention people's health, as those cows.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    You clearly haven't chugged chromium water

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago

    Chromium-based tanning is only 1 kind of tanning, but yeah, chromium's one of those chemicals which needs to be limited more-carefully, among our ecologies.

    Vegetable-based tanning also exists, & I'm no expert, so there could be multiple way I don't know about.

    _ /\ _

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Because it is made from plant based materials? Like some LEGO parts are nowadays made from plant based materials.

    Plants -> Ethanol -> Plastic

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Polyurethane is made by (among other steps) mixing paint thinner and phosgene gas. It's a nasty dangerous process.

    The only time plants are involved is when they mix in some fiber pulp at the end.

    Plant based plastics exist, but they are not polyurethane.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    No hate, but leather and pb leather is gross to us idk how people like it. The texture is eugh

  • source
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    I see the point of plant based leather not as necessarily being great now, but as demonstrating that there is demand for R & D to make a product that can meet or surpass the quality of leather later.

  • source
  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Look up where plastic comes from.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [+] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
    [+] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, the simplest answer is to just skip the leather look rather than going with a bunch of plastic junk.

    If you still want to, I would consider cork and waxed canvas to be reasonable options. Waxed canvas in particular is quite a durable material, so it can be a good choice for bags and jackets.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 6 months ago*

    I had a hard time finding a decent vegan wallet that held up...I had a knockoff Ridge for a while and liked it...eventually my SIL got me a real one for my birthday.

    If you don't carry much cash and just need to carry a few cards and ID, I can't recommend it enough.

    Dress shoes that are vegan and ethical/environmentally sound and hold up and fit my bigass US 14EEEE feet is actually impossible.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    i was gonna say "what about pineapple leather" but yeah nope, it's got PLA in it..

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    as opposed to....dead cow skin?

  • source
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] [S] 14 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    As long as there is meat consumption there will be dead skin. I am open for all kind of alternatives but plastic none for me. Also real leather can be tanned in a bad way. So its a difficult topic in general.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Vegetan Bucky basicly a micro fiber

  • source
  • [+] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    But... Isn't actual leather plant based?

    Cow eats grass. Cow grows from eating grass. Cow ded. Make leather from cow.

    From grass to cow to leather. Leather is made of grass. Leather is plant based.

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    are you taking the piss or being serious?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    He forgot the part where grass is grown on soil made of decomposed cow, making grass a meat-based product.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments