Panasonic has said demand for backup batteries is rising quickly, and it is largely driven by the expansion of AI infrastructure that requires stable, continuous power. It has already allocated around 80% of its planned output to existing customers, leaving only a limited share for new buyers attempting to scale systems.

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[–] 114 points 7 months ago (8 children)

So everything at this point?

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  • [–] 44 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Anything it takes to set up a data center. I bet network cable is next.

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  • [–] 83 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Stop selling stuff you haven’t made yet to people who have no money and haven’t paid. Wtf is wrong with businesses these days?

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago

    Why would you think there is anything wrong with them? They now get to scalp people with outrageous prices for the 20% they are selling. If the AI sloppanies pay, they made big sales. If the slop producers producers are unable to pay, they will sell the reserved stuff for normal or even slightly elevated prices. It's win-win. Basically an excuse for industry wide price-fixing.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The point of capitalism isn't "make a widget/sell the widget/to a customer" anymore, it's "create market value/sell the value/shareholders are the entire point." The widgets are just a prop in a way, the customers an abstraction. If it's making money, if it's growing above 3.5, we worship it. If it's growing at thousands of percent, then it's a god who cannot be stopped. Everything else just supports this - government, social programs, people's life and death and joy in between - that's all an abstraction. Shareholder value is the only thing that matters.

    This is why we must restrain capitalism with regulation, but it's too late, it's metastasized into its final form now.

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  • [–] 59 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    I wonder if there's going to be a point in the future where we all look back at this massive over-investment and kick ourselves for making so much expensive electronics waste.

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  • [–] 48 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    They learned nothing from the NFT/"Metaverse" hype cycle, but a century of hindsight might help. There's always going to be that golden goose that can make you insanely rich based on vague bullshit a lot of people don't fully understand.

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  • [–] 62 points 7 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 17 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    It will burst the same way the dotcom bubble bursted.

    Just like the internet, AI will be here to stay.

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  • [–] 52 points 7 months ago

    Comparing the dotcom bubble to the AI bubble is like comparing a corn kernel to a corn cob at this point.

    The US economy was more spread out and varied back then, and the bubble wasn't over a third of the entire economy.

    And you know, the internet actually had market value and was producing profit immediately at least. AI still has yet to turn any profits.

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  • [+] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    That's the part of all this that truly blows my mind...nobody wants this shit. You dont even need to be a technophobic boomer to fucking hate dealing with AI when youre trying to get an answer to a question that isnt something you can find on wikipedia, like for example, "How much will this particular software license cost me if Im installing it on two host VMs serving approximately 200-250 concurrent users?" The AI isnt gonna answer that right...I know it wont, because Ive spent at least 2-3 full fucking 10 hour days in aggregate playing this stupid fucking game as phone lines are getting closed left and right and I always end up running in circles until it will even permit me to get an actual human fucking being involved, if that is even a possibility, which 70% of the time, it just dumps you to an email and a wait for a response email that also didnt answer the fucking question.

    And the thing is...its getting harder and harder to opt out. I cant even vote with my wallet because its either deal with the AI trash, or deal with some fly by night company that no one has ever heard of and goes radio silent for weeks when they cant fix a problem in 3 minutes.

    This is gonna make me sound old but I saw this coming 25 years ago with self checkouts. Look at what a piece of shit the average self checkout is. Just last weekend the lines at my local grocery store were out the fuckin door because all the self checkouts somehow decided the cart itself was an item in a cart that wasnt scanned and thought everyone was stealing. Rather than get humans on the checklanes and shutting the self checkouts off, the store just had an extra person at the self checkout to enter their code after literally every single transaction to bypass it. Im talking rows of 20 self checkouts that had two people that had to code through every single transaction. Human cashiers wouldnt have had that problem, but human cashiers cost money, so better your service as a customer suck fat ass then bring in a couple teenagers extra to cover some weekend shifts on a register.

    I see this at the doctor now with their self checkin machines that take fifteen minutes to get through what you could do with the person in three. I see this when trying to ship a fucking package and the machine runs out of labels and theres no human being for miles around to put more in so you can get on with your life.

    This shit fucking sucks, and they no longer have any incentive to improve, because theyre all doing it, so everybody sucks, and we just get to deal with it.

    Remember this when you see the lack of savings being passed on in lieu of all the payroll theyre saving. Every minute you fight with AI to answer a simple fucking question, some oligarch is screaming CHACHING!!!

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Some form of "AI" will always be around. It has been around nearly as long as we've had computers. We've even had AI chatbots since 1966.

    But, the dot com bubble is a bad comparison. If you look at a graph of Internet users over time you can barely even see the dot com crash. The Internet was a massively useful phenomenon and more and more people kept using it. The dot com crash was basically an overestimation of how quickly people were going to adopt it combined with a massive drop in the value of Internet-based ads.

    What's much more likely with AI is another AI Winter where a few things stick around, but mostly AI goes back on the back burner for a few more decades.

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    You have got to be goddamned kidding me. Literally this weekend I said to myself “time to get a UPS”.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    I mean it depends on what you're used for a UPS is. The smaller ones can still be had on Amazon for under $100 and if you hurry you could still get that pricing. But by the sounds that those ones are going to be jumping way up in price for no reason because literally those are useless to anybody in the Enterprise level. Unless they're being used at a desktop level which they do tend to purchase pallets worth of but this is more along the lines of Enterprise server level UPS's.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (10 children)

    Chech out what Bluetti offers. They're LFP portable batteries but with a UPS features. You'll want the elite versions though, all the others are noisy with the fan, which the elite series fixed. The tech is pretty new with these showing up in the home portable battery market, but they will last longer in both battery longevity and power during outage than the old SLA type ones. And if youre travelling / going somewhere and dont need the UPS active you can take it with you and be useful!

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (7 children)

    I actually have an ac180 for camping and using tools away from power. I kinda figured it was a bit of a waste as just a ups, and worried about killing the battery quickly.

    Maybe get another dedicated one for the office where I need it..

    Update- picked up a BLUETTI elite 30 for my PC. I’ll keep the 180 for what I need it for, and now I’ve got a smaller one if I need it. I almost bought another standard PC UPS, but I was swayed by the versatility.

    I should probably look at the one on my server/network stack, probably getting close to time to swap the battery.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Ya, I don't think you really need that much as a UPS but if you ran the AC180 in UPS mode, it would turn the fan on every 15-20 minutes as the circuity in the battery is still powered by the battery, even though the power is fed to your gear from the wall power. That results in it slowly going to 99% and then charging, which is noisy on the non-elite models in a quiet room. These LFP models are good for like 3000 cycles though, so using it as UPS it'll still last a decade or longer with 80% capacity left over.

    There's the Elite 30 which can be a nice little battery backup / be portable and isn't too much more expensive then the comprable SLA types that don't last long.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    Have you ever tried running a small coffee maker off of one of those? I've been trying to decide what power supply I'm replacing my battery system in my pop-up trailer with and I didn't want to go with anything that was too large or takes up too much space. But this looks like for price it's near perfect for my use case. The only thing I'm ever curious about is will it run my coffee maker in the morning. And what kind of charging are you using for it? Do you run solar off of it?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    Hey just FYI, if you do decide to get something, the AC180 is last years model and is upgraded by the Elite 100v2 even though they still sell the AC180.

    There's a comparison on the elite 100 page about half way down, but if space is one of your concerns, it's smaller, and 12lbs lighter for only 130wh less. It also chargers faster from solar than the AC180, but a little slower from wall power.

    With 1800 watt output power (3600 surge) it can run anything a normal 120v outlet can run before tripping a circuit breaker, which will include any coffee machine, however if the coffee machine uses the whole 15amps while the heater is on, it'll only run for around 45 minutes.

    I have the 100 and really like it

    https://www.bluettipower.ca/products/elite-100-v2-portable-power-station

    Edit: oh and I wall charge mine. I have 200w of solar as backup for emergencies but I haven't used it to power it beyond testing.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    Solar is important for my use. I Boondock so I'm away from power for up to a week at a time. I would love to stop bringing my generator.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    They don't support sending messages over a serial / USB / network connection to say "battery is almost dead, shut down cleanly while you can" right? As far as I can tell, that's the one key feature that a UPS has that a portable battery doesn't.

    I took a look the other day and was amazed at how little UPSes have improved in the last few decades vs. everything else battery-related.

    At this point, I'd expect a consumer-grade UPS to have something like a Raspberry PI attached, and run a web server. I'd expect it to not just have a serial port for signaling, but to be able to run custom BASH scripts to send messages out to any attached device warning it about being on battery and keeping it up to date on the battery status.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Ya they don't have that ability yet. If it was on something you'd want to shut down cleanly you'd want to be there to do it yourself or be able to remotely do it. The advantage of these new LFP ones though is it can last for hours instead of minutes, so there isnt a huge rush, and if your outages are short, it might not be an issue.

    Edit: i had my internet, a couple security cameras and a small low power computer running some things last the whole ~1h45m outage last time I was away and power went out.

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I'm tired boss....

    That joke aside, does anyone else find swapping out UPS batteries bizarrely satisfying? Every time I heft one of those APC rack batteries and slot em in, I walk out of the server room with a smile on my face!

    Fuck, maybe I need to answer the call of the void and work as a tradie XD

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  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago

    The just in time economy is running a little bit late.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    If there's a shortage of AAAs, and my TV remote stops working, we're gonna have a problem.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago*

    I doubt that there's actually a substantial impact on battery cell production. Might be on rack-mountable batteries containing those cells. But setting that aside:

    Panasonic plans to expand lithium-ion cell

    Non-rechargable AAA batteries are typically alkaline, and rechargeables are typically NiMH, not lithium-ion.

    EDIT: Looking at a handful of rack-mount lithium-ion batteries on Amazon price history using camelcamelcamel, prices are either unchanged or very slightly up. Could be Panasonic looking to get into the news, but it's not clear to me that there's a shortage of even rack-mount lithium-ion batteries.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Get yourself some rechargeables. Yeah they don’t last as long per charge. But I’ve got a stockpile and I keep rotating them out so I’ve always got a fresh pair ready to go.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Honestly? I'm on the 3rd cycle with my AAAs (used for an MP3 and small electronics) and the 2nd for my AAs.

    I've not noticed them lasting less, and I've already made back what disposables would cost.

    Bonus: I charge them at work because why not.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago

    Burn all this useless crap down

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    Shut it down

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    Supply and command, Ricky!

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    All this for what? AI Big Becky diving videos?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Oh this one is going to be interesting, cause the other component shortages were not something thin clients needed.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    This might not be the worst thing, if it results in better stationary batteries. Unfortunately they will probably just keep using lithium ion.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    don't most enterprise ups use lead acid?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    We use rack mounted LiFePO for some of our network nodes that don't have local facility provided UPS. But I do notice Lead Acid often as I visit various small datacenters. My guess would be that Lithium is still more niche

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Feels like 2007

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