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[–] 80 points 7 months ago

where are those videos of Israel governments saying that iran is targeting civilians and the world must join together to fight terrorism?

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  • [–] 75 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Terrorists. Just using half-million dollar bombs instead of suicide vests.

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  • [–] 91 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The video:

    Israeli strike near Gaza camp in Deir Al-Balah kills one person

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs9edpeOFg4

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  • [–] 32 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    If any other country did this they'd be isolated and cut off.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago*

    Yeah but if Israel does anything bad you're not allowed to criticise it because then that's anti-semitism. They can practically do anything, including murder and no one (in government) bats an eye.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Indonesia and Guatemala beg to differ. This is not the first genocide the west has supported.

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  • [–] 49 points 7 months ago (68 children)
  • [–] 38 points 7 months ago (45 children)

    There's a lot of innocent people in Israel that are fighting against the current regime, just like in your country. Don't damn them just because you're angry.

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  • [–] 26 points 7 months ago (20 children)

    most Israelis (81%) say the military has a very or somewhat good influence on the way things are going in Israel https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/20/how-israelis-view-their-government-institutions-and-leaders/

    73% of Israeli Jews think that suffering of the Iranian civilian population is not important in Iran War https://en.idi.org.il/articles/59726

    Support for Netanyahu's party has gone up since 2023 and support for the opposition has gone down.

    There comes a time when you have to admit that the apple is too rotten to be saved. Nothing will change anytime soon; if anything it will only get worse.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (19 children)

    ...are you saying that the solution for genocide is more genocide? There are a lot of innocent people in Israel. We should not be nuking those people just because their government is failing them. And likewise, the innocent people of ALL countries (including yours :) should be spared when fixing the problems caused by a corrupt government.

    Nuking countries when your goal is to stop their leaders isn't an option. Sorry. Try again.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    No other country has this much popular support for an ethno-supremacist nationalist policy of extermination. Even the US, which is the most hated worldwide right now, sits at 30% support, at best. The "innocent" people of Israel (if you can call people who serve in the IDF that) can always go back to the countries they came from before colonizing a land that wasn't theirs, that was stolen through murder and displacement.

    I'm not pretending to know the solution, but the time for peaceful resolution has passed by at least 70 years. Any solution that comes now will involve violence against one side or the other. Thinking otherwise is utopian nonsense.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    There are several generations of Israelis born Israelis. They don't have anywhere they are from to return to.

    I agree there is no realistic solution without genocide in sight, but that is not an excuse to support more genocide.

    The isrealis need to be condemned and isolated from international support. After we accomplish that, we can re evaluate. They might not be so bloodthirsty if the US and other countries weren't so ride or die for the IDF.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Also important to note that Palestine was a very diverse place before the occupation began.

    The problem isn't specific people or a specific religion or specific genetics, it's a diseased culture.

    Though at this point, it needs to be up to Palestinians who gets to stay and who doesn't.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Israelis can easily travel to Europe and the US. For example, in Germany, they can get citizenship if they can prove German descent. In other places they have advantaged programs for immigration compared to other non West countries. Choosing to stay is embracing Zionism. That's the only peaceful solution, which obviously isn't going to happen when 70-80% support the status quo and further expansionism.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    The majority of the Jewish population of Isreal are decended from the Soviet Union and the Middle East. When Isreal was founded 10s of thousands of Jews lived in North Africa and other middle eastern countries. Nearly all of them moved to Israel, and those countries will not welcome their children and grandchildren back.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    are you saying that the solution for genocide is more genocide?

    Israel not existing is not a genocide against Jews.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (11 children)

    It would be a genocide against isrealis.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    Israel could stop existing without a single person dying.

    It wouldn't happen, but it could.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Exile, statelessness, and ethnic cleansing are forms of genocide.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Were whites genocided with the fall of Rhodesia or apartheid South Africa?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Not to my knowledge. I had understood that they were allowed to stay. In Rhodesia they had "their" land expropriated, so many chose to leave, and In South Africa they had their political dominance ended. The issue of land expropriation remains under debate.

    In both cases it wasn't bloodless, and south Africa retains a white population to this day, so clearly not genocided.

    I am not deeply familiar with the history of Zimbabwe, so if you are, please enlighten me.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    The end of "Israel" will probably go similarly. The people who are fine with living alongside Palestinians as equal citizens will stay, the racial supremacists will leave, at least some war criminals will need to be punished, though it's basically a society of war criminals from top to bottom, so all of them won't be feasible. There will be some bloodshed but hopefully not too much.

    I'm not deeply familiar with Zimbabwe either, but there wasn't a white genocide.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    It's not exile if you're not from there.

    You're not stateless if you're not from there.

    It's not ethnic cleansing if you are a colonizer being removed.

    With that said I don't generally think that Israelis born there should be removed. But that's up to the Palestinians, it's their land.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    That's a fair compromise. Sucks for the people born there, but it's a lesson to not do colonization.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. Palestinians are generally very kind (and very religious) people, though positive generalizations are still generalizations. Or yeah, maybe they wouldn't be willing to risk making the same mistake twice, and no one could really reasonably blame them for that either.

    Long way to go before we need to think too hard about that anyway, unfortunately.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (18 children)

    Its obviously hyperbole. Completely carpet bombing the population isnt a step I would want to take. But if Israel disappeared overnight, I surely wouldnt miss it.

    Also, lets not downplay the killing of thousands and thousands of innocents by Israel.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    The state, as an American ally, conducting genocide in the region needs to "dissapear." The people, cannot dissapear.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    Killing more innocents doesn't solve the problem, AND is the same as your chief complaint.

    Don't do that.

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  • [+] -6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (12 children)

    Again, stop downplaying the murder of countless innocent lives.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    I'm saying "Don't kill more people"

    this is why reading comprehension is important folks 🤣

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    Nobody disagrees with protecting innocent lives, well except Israel and the US. What you are doing is deflecting from the genocide and protecting the attackers. Otherwise you wouldnt reiterate on a point already covered.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    So to not downplay an atrocity the stance is to kill every last one of them, women and children all?

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    That's a weird and extreme take you have.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Why do you say his take is weird? You're the one arguing against those of us saying that no more innocent people should be killed. If you think it's weird and extreme, then fix it yourself. You're the one expressing it, not us.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    Hi I'm sorry but that's not correct

    Nobody disagrees with protecting innocent lives

    ^ this is wrong because you are arguing against me when I said no more innocents should be killed.

    Not only are you wrong, but the reverse of what you're saying is true. That means you're either a liar or stupid. Pick one or we'll pick for you.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Nope, you either failed to read my comment or understand it. Or you are being purposely malicious. We will go with the second option, given your relentless ignorance.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    You've accused me at least twice now of doing exactly what you were doing. Please refer to my other comment and we'll try to get some clarification.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (1 child)

    You insinuated that I wanted to kill innocent Israeli's, I clarified I didn't. You then kept going on about killing innocents. You are all up in arms when it comes to Israeli's being under fire, but just pass off Israel's victims under the blanket term of "all innocents". So kindly fuck off, you zionist sympathetic.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (3 children)

    its a ridiculously tiny minority. And leaving Israel in that region means letting them continue their war crimes, and you know that. There is really no way around it. The only ethical solution is to eject them from the region entirely. The 8 year bloodbath needs to end.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    We can't be opposed to the Gazan genocide and at the same time use genocidal language like "ejecting them from the region." Them being Jewish people. Yes Israel should be sanctioned, and militarily invaded. Benjamin Netenyahu should be assassinated, and the country needs to be rid of the Zionist ideology. But there is simply no way to mass migrate a large population without great pain and suffering.

    Plus, if the Israeli people, the citizens not the elitist leaders and soldiers, were moved from their country, where would they go? To cause more violence in the regions they move to? The Israeli people have been subject to large scale mass international propaganda, they need to be deradicilized, not treated like parasites.

    I agree with having a firm, radical opposition to genocide, but individually, morally it is not good to use words like "flatten" or "eject." I understand the anger, I think we all feel it.

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Leaving them in the region obviously leads to an even worse outcome. They murder every day and dont consider others to be humans with any rights at all.

    And I flatly disagree that ejecting them is genocide. Equating the two is flatly untrue. If you need to define that as true then it must be true that the zionists genocided 750,000 people in the nakba, along with however many they just genocided in gaza, the west bank, syria, and Lebanon.

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago

    We can't be opposed to the Gazan genocide and at the same time use genocidal language like "ejecting them from the region." Them being Jewish people.

    yes, we can

    That you don't says so much about you and your values, it is also a reflection of the live you've led. Israel has no right to exist and by the wills of the Palestinians it would be extinguished, I'm so sick of western liberals and armchair arbitrators trying to support their government funded colonial project.

    If you still feel that Jews deserve their own space/country, carve out a giant hole on a map between Germany and Poland and move them back there, that's where they came from and belong. Let's see how long Europeans do a Holocaust 2.0

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  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago*

    doesnt seem like alot, if a majority is openly supporting it, plus they have international jewish people and thier backers supporting the zionist regime. the time to get rid of benny was him getting sent to jailed and not get elected. more or less we hear very little from opposition of bibi since the oct 7 attack.

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  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    israelis are definitely not a people that are going to get better over time. Watch any interview with israelis talking about committing war crimes. They are always smiling. They absolutely love killing, and they dont care at all who it was. The only thing that will work is flattening them. Its their inevitable future and nothing can stop that now.

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  • [+] -7 points 7 months ago (12 children)
  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    This is racism, just like fighting the Nazis in wwII was racism.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    If, during WWII, you said that all Germans were happily committing war crimes and love killing with a smile on their face, you'd be racist.

    Just accept that you're racist.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    Nope I don't hate jews I just feel that Israel should fall because it's a Nazi state at this point. It's encouraging not only apartheid and it has been for decades but it's been openly committing genocide for the past several years. Just admit you're an Israel apologist and it doesn't matter how many people they kill how many children they murder or torture or how many women they rape that you will stand with that state no matter what enjoy your Zionism and fuck off.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (5 children)

    Ah yes, the old "if you respond to Israeli racism, then you are the racist" gambit.

    How about we just say that every human must be given whats in the UN declaration of universal human rights. You know, the document the Israels are one of the only countries in the would to vote against. You onboard with that?

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    yes, the israeli government is racist and israel is conducting a genocide. saying all israelis absolutely love killing and must be immediately flattened is also objectively racist

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    the standard for what happens to a population is never "all". Its not reasonable to interview every member of a group. You have to trust polling. Are you claiming most israelis are good people who dont support the actions of their government? because all the data at hand says thats just not the case.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    well, if you mean most israelis, then say most israelis. assigning an opinion to an entire ethnic group is racist regardless of the opinion

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    ok I'll say the overwhelming, vast majority of israelis, sure. 90% of Israelis want war with Iran. 21% of Americans support war with Iran.

    82% of israelis support the complete ethnic cleansing of all palestinians from their homes and any area Israel controls, regardless of whether they are innocent, based on their ethnicity (racism, see that? Are you spending any time opposing that? I dont see any time spent opposing that in your comments, which is odd)

    68% of Israelis oppose giving human rights to all as outlined in the universal declaration of human rights. Not one of your concerns-- you are much more interested in not insulting the Israelis that arent in that 68% than the problem of the 68%'s actions. You pretend this is all happening as a rhetorical point rather than realities of 80-years of ongoing actions.

    I do see a pattern of your comments Joan, of only having any criticism for people on what you claim is your side getting the message wrong. You dont want people to exactly say Donald Trump is a nazi, even though you object to his actions, you say. Similarly, If its not 100% of Israelis, you dont want blanket usage of "Israeli". You are very concerned with letting people off the hook if they claim not to be in support of evil actions. You zero in on vagueries of the minor details and what ifs while ignoring the actual facts that should be orders of magnitude more important.

    But sure. to humor you I will say the vast vast vast majority (clarification for u/joan). And you can consider your job done and that you addressed the key problems of our age. Keep on fighting, soldier.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    i don't really disagree with you... overall, yes, anyone who supports genocide from their government sucks! but giving ourselves a reason to be prejudiced against a group of people is how we make another genocide, not fix the ones that are happening. i don't think being careful about racism is a 'vaguery' or a 'minor detail'. thanks for the conversation! ✌️

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  • [+] -12 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Because that will totally bring peace to the region, remember this current rount of Israeli aggression into Lebanon, the Palestine, and Iran started with the October 7th attack. Yes there are reasons why that attack happened but attacks and death do not tend to lead to peace unless mass genocide supresses the will to get revenge, and even then unless the people is completely whipped out there will be a memory and a lingering anger with those that remain. Also Israel has nukes and unless you're a fan of Nuclear Holocausts I'd say the best option for peace was the one that was happening prior to October 7th 2023, one where political pressure from within Israel was making government funding for settler groups, and Orthodox Jews who didn't serve in the IDF getting special treatment and funds, while embittering Arab Israelis and Palestinians. One where the Netanyahu government was do unpopular and fighting off corruption charges constantly that a war causing a rally around the flag was the only reason why that party is still in power and why they are going for broke when it comes to Iran. If you want a peaceful world the best option unfortunately is not to punish exclusively but to give exit ramps before the punishment that have a tangible benefit for those involved, this works on individuals for preventing recidivism among criminals or even first time offenses by having basic needs easily attainable (food, lodging, education, work) for the majority, and also on governments who are run by individuals, if a dictator is told they will be arrested and tried in the Haig for crimes against their people or neighboring countries and that there is a bounty on their head dead or alive and there is no exit ramp either for the dictator nor his elites then you will have a situation like what happened to Gadaffi, Hussain, Hitler, any number of Egyptian leaders, the Shah, Ceausescu, and any number of failed dictatorships, they will make the lives of their citizenry and those of their neighboring enemies worse.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    attacks and death do not tend to lead to peace unless mass genocide supresses the will to get revenge

    you figured out Israel's game plan

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    As well as many other groups, including Hamas if they ever get enough military power. The best solution for all is a peace plan and to get extremists out of government.

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Israeli aggression of Lebanon and Palestine started on October 7

    Yep the rest isn't worth reading

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  • [+] -9 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Nothing starts on a specific date even the Superbowl, as there are months of planning leading up to it and other events impacting it as well. October 7th wouldn't have happened if Gaza wasn't walled off (literally) from economic expansion, which wouldn't have happened if terrorism plots and attacks hadn't been launched from there into israel, which goes back and fourth on and on back to Israeli independence and the Nakbah, and all the Arab Israeli wars shortly there after with the explicit reason to destroy the cou try, which wouldn't have happened if the Holocaust and anyi Jewish sentiment, from people within the british, German and Palestine mandate territories, leading to assassinations and pogroms some supported by people such as Amin al-Husseini who explicitly supported the Holocaust, and the revocation of a two state solution from the Arab states and refusal to recognize Israel as a state. Was it a good idea to create the state of israel there is no longer a conversation that has any reason to be had for an actual solution as the cou try exists and within internationally recognized Israel the residents by and large were born there and some for generations more so than the existence of the state by centuries. A productive discussion would be one to get israel to dismantle the settlements in the west bank and to stop the killing in Gaza, not trying to wish death on a country for the actions of a political elite doing war crimes to keep their power and reducing democracy. Think of your own government and country's history and tell me how it is different from that of Israel at a certain point, genocide ethnic cleansing, colonization, are a hallmark of almost all countries the way to stop those cou tries from doing those things is to have greater democracy within the country and greater economic and social ties to their neighbors which would be disrupted by war, encouraging those ties has been half hearted at best until somewhat recently and haven't really included Palestine, and is I believe the main reason why there is tension, because there is only boycotting Israeli products as an economic disincentive for their actions against Palestine and the few economic incentives for the west bank and Gaza not to open hostilities with Israel are small as well, a lot by design from Hamas in Gaza and the Palestinian government on one hand and the Israeli government on the other as it would reduce their political power on their people. Prior to October 7 the west bank was in a period of raprochement (political cooling of tensions due to the courts in Israel starting to side with their claims more than the Netanyahu regime) with israel as was Saudi Arabia and this threatened Iran who used promted their proxies to try to sabotage the expansion of the Abraham accords, thus October 7, the Israeli attacks on and from Hamas Hezbollah and the Huthis, and eventually to the current war in Iran. Everything is linked you could even say that this situation probably wouldn't have happened if the Serbian assassin Gavrilo Princip didn't assassinate the ArchDuke Franz Ferdinand in 1914, but we aren't fighting world war 1 today just the consequences of it and shouldn't play the blame game when there are still problems to solve to stop the bloodshed, simplifying things to make a bad-guy and try to find a simple solution is how ethnic cleansing and genocides and ghettos are created kicking the can down the road and causing so much undue harm. It is important to know the sequence of events that led to climactic points in history.

    TLDR: you can't find a specific point that caused any specific action to happen to start the current conflict as there are inciting incidents that have inciting incidents, to solve the issue closer ties between israel and its neighbors (especially Palestine) on economic and social levels will be needed and to do that greater democracy is needed as well as intermingling their economies to make war not only an issue or human rights but an economic issue what will backfire on the government starting the war.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    Picture of the year

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Israel has forfeited their right to exist. Withdraw all Western aid, let the Arab nations do as they fucking please. Annihilate this hateful little nation of religious fruitcakes. I no longer care what happens to every last man, woman, child and pig.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (15 children)

    Edit: Since people have a problem with this comment, the image is a still frame from a video of the bombimg. Awful.

    There are links in the replies, which were not present when I made this comment (it was the first comment on this post).

    Original commentWhat's going on is atrocious, but do we have any evidence whatsoever this isn't just five minutes in photoshop? It's not hard to put a bomb silhouette in the sky and blur it a bit.

    The timing of this image, the fact that the photographer got the image out, and as far as I'm aware there's not a follow up with the aftermath just tweaks my bullshit sense is all.

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  • [–] 44 points 7 months ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    The guy with one leg center bottom...doesn't even flinch. He's been through so much...

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  • [–] -3 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    what difference will it make?

    what will you do if it's real? what if it's not?

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    There is intrinsic value in the truth, I think.

    If OP posts a photoshopped picture, that tells us something about OP. If the picture is real, that tells us something about an event of this war.

    When we know the truth, we can better decide who to listen to. When we can better decide who to listen to, we have more opportunity to sway the opinions of those around us towards the truth.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    What difference did you commenting make? If you're chasing the nihilism here

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  • [+] -6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    it may be helpful to stop pretending that in 2026 truth matters.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Why would I listen to you then, someone fine with lying. Your words are worthless.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Why would I listen to you then, someone fine with lying. Your words are worthless.

    i'm not "fine with lying"'.

    Trump is the ultimate liar. Are his words worthless? His lies matter more than our thousand truths.

    World has changed and the truth doesn't matter anymore.

    But my original comment was about the frailty of being just a witness to a genocide faraway and asking if the image is real or not. Honestly, what difference does it make after all we've seen? What have we done after seeing other images that were authenticated?

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  • [–] -2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    yes, smart thinking, maybe the entirely of the zionist holocaust of Palestinians and all their various and sundry war crimes were simply photoshop. Where is Hind Rijab, do we even have any record besides photos of her ever existing? Where are all the bodies of palestinians? Maybe they just left town, right? Asking the tough questions here, good for you buddy. /s

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