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[–] 49 points 7 months ago (68 children)
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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    attacks and death do not tend to lead to peace unless mass genocide supresses the will to get revenge

    you figured out Israel's game plan

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    As well as many other groups, including Hamas if they ever get enough military power. The best solution for all is a peace plan and to get extremists out of government.

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Israeli aggression of Lebanon and Palestine started on October 7

    Yep the rest isn't worth reading

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  • [–] 38 points 7 months ago (45 children)

    There's a lot of innocent people in Israel that are fighting against the current regime, just like in your country. Don't damn them just because you're angry.

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  • [–] 26 points 7 months ago (20 children)

    most Israelis (81%) say the military has a very or somewhat good influence on the way things are going in Israel https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/20/how-israelis-view-their-government-institutions-and-leaders/

    73% of Israeli Jews think that suffering of the Iranian civilian population is not important in Iran War https://en.idi.org.il/articles/59726

    Support for Netanyahu's party has gone up since 2023 and support for the opposition has gone down.

    There comes a time when you have to admit that the apple is too rotten to be saved. Nothing will change anytime soon; if anything it will only get worse.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    No other country has this much popular support for an ethno-supremacist nationalist policy of extermination. Even the US, which is the most hated worldwide right now, sits at 30% support, at best. The "innocent" people of Israel (if you can call people who serve in the IDF that) can always go back to the countries they came from before colonizing a land that wasn't theirs, that was stolen through murder and displacement.

    I'm not pretending to know the solution, but the time for peaceful resolution has passed by at least 70 years. Any solution that comes now will involve violence against one side or the other. Thinking otherwise is utopian nonsense.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Also important to note that Palestine was a very diverse place before the occupation began.

    The problem isn't specific people or a specific religion or specific genetics, it's a diseased culture.

    Though at this point, it needs to be up to Palestinians who gets to stay and who doesn't.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    Israelis can easily travel to Europe and the US. For example, in Germany, they can get citizenship if they can prove German descent. In other places they have advantaged programs for immigration compared to other non West countries. Choosing to stay is embracing Zionism. That's the only peaceful solution, which obviously isn't going to happen when 70-80% support the status quo and further expansionism.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    The majority of the Jewish population of Isreal are decended from the Soviet Union and the Middle East. When Isreal was founded 10s of thousands of Jews lived in North Africa and other middle eastern countries. Nearly all of them moved to Israel, and those countries will not welcome their children and grandchildren back.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    are you saying that the solution for genocide is more genocide?

    Israel not existing is not a genocide against Jews.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    Israel could stop existing without a single person dying.

    It wouldn't happen, but it could.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Exile, statelessness, and ethnic cleansing are forms of genocide.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Were whites genocided with the fall of Rhodesia or apartheid South Africa?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Not to my knowledge. I had understood that they were allowed to stay. In Rhodesia they had "their" land expropriated, so many chose to leave, and In South Africa they had their political dominance ended. The issue of land expropriation remains under debate.

    In both cases it wasn't bloodless, and south Africa retains a white population to this day, so clearly not genocided.

    I am not deeply familiar with the history of Zimbabwe, so if you are, please enlighten me.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    The end of "Israel" will probably go similarly. The people who are fine with living alongside Palestinians as equal citizens will stay, the racial supremacists will leave, at least some war criminals will need to be punished, though it's basically a society of war criminals from top to bottom, so all of them won't be feasible. There will be some bloodshed but hopefully not too much.

    I'm not deeply familiar with Zimbabwe either, but there wasn't a white genocide.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    It's not exile if you're not from there.

    You're not stateless if you're not from there.

    It's not ethnic cleansing if you are a colonizer being removed.

    With that said I don't generally think that Israelis born there should be removed. But that's up to the Palestinians, it's their land.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    That's a fair compromise. Sucks for the people born there, but it's a lesson to not do colonization.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. Palestinians are generally very kind (and very religious) people, though positive generalizations are still generalizations. Or yeah, maybe they wouldn't be willing to risk making the same mistake twice, and no one could really reasonably blame them for that either.

    Long way to go before we need to think too hard about that anyway, unfortunately.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    We can't be opposed to the Gazan genocide and at the same time use genocidal language like "ejecting them from the region." Them being Jewish people. Yes Israel should be sanctioned, and militarily invaded. Benjamin Netenyahu should be assassinated, and the country needs to be rid of the Zionist ideology. But there is simply no way to mass migrate a large population without great pain and suffering.

    Plus, if the Israeli people, the citizens not the elitist leaders and soldiers, were moved from their country, where would they go? To cause more violence in the regions they move to? The Israeli people have been subject to large scale mass international propaganda, they need to be deradicilized, not treated like parasites.

    I agree with having a firm, radical opposition to genocide, but individually, morally it is not good to use words like "flatten" or "eject." I understand the anger, I think we all feel it.

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  • [–] 13 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (18 children)

    Its obviously hyperbole. Completely carpet bombing the population isnt a step I would want to take. But if Israel disappeared overnight, I surely wouldnt miss it.

    Also, lets not downplay the killing of thousands and thousands of innocents by Israel.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    The state, as an American ally, conducting genocide in the region needs to "dissapear." The people, cannot dissapear.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    Killing more innocents doesn't solve the problem, AND is the same as your chief complaint.

    Don't do that.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    I'm saying "Don't kill more people"

    this is why reading comprehension is important folks 🤣

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (10 children)

    Nobody disagrees with protecting innocent lives, well except Israel and the US. What you are doing is deflecting from the genocide and protecting the attackers. Otherwise you wouldnt reiterate on a point already covered.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    So to not downplay an atrocity the stance is to kill every last one of them, women and children all?

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Why do you say his take is weird? You're the one arguing against those of us saying that no more innocent people should be killed. If you think it's weird and extreme, then fix it yourself. You're the one expressing it, not us.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Nope, you either failed to read my comment or understand it. Or you are being purposely malicious. We will go with the second option, given your relentless ignorance.

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  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago (13 children)

    israelis are definitely not a people that are going to get better over time. Watch any interview with israelis talking about committing war crimes. They are always smiling. They absolutely love killing, and they dont care at all who it was. The only thing that will work is flattening them. Its their inevitable future and nothing can stop that now.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    This is racism, just like fighting the Nazis in wwII was racism.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    Nope I don't hate jews I just feel that Israel should fall because it's a Nazi state at this point. It's encouraging not only apartheid and it has been for decades but it's been openly committing genocide for the past several years. Just admit you're an Israel apologist and it doesn't matter how many people they kill how many children they murder or torture or how many women they rape that you will stand with that state no matter what enjoy your Zionism and fuck off.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (5 children)

    Ah yes, the old "if you respond to Israeli racism, then you are the racist" gambit.

    How about we just say that every human must be given whats in the UN declaration of universal human rights. You know, the document the Israels are one of the only countries in the would to vote against. You onboard with that?

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    the standard for what happens to a population is never "all". Its not reasonable to interview every member of a group. You have to trust polling. Are you claiming most israelis are good people who dont support the actions of their government? because all the data at hand says thats just not the case.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (2 children)

    well, if you mean most israelis, then say most israelis. assigning an opinion to an entire ethnic group is racist regardless of the opinion

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    ok I'll say the overwhelming, vast majority of israelis, sure. 90% of Israelis want war with Iran. 21% of Americans support war with Iran.

    82% of israelis support the complete ethnic cleansing of all palestinians from their homes and any area Israel controls, regardless of whether they are innocent, based on their ethnicity (racism, see that? Are you spending any time opposing that? I dont see any time spent opposing that in your comments, which is odd)

    68% of Israelis oppose giving human rights to all as outlined in the universal declaration of human rights. Not one of your concerns-- you are much more interested in not insulting the Israelis that arent in that 68% than the problem of the 68%'s actions. You pretend this is all happening as a rhetorical point rather than realities of 80-years of ongoing actions.

    I do see a pattern of your comments Joan, of only having any criticism for people on what you claim is your side getting the message wrong. You dont want people to exactly say Donald Trump is a nazi, even though you object to his actions, you say. Similarly, If its not 100% of Israelis, you dont want blanket usage of "Israeli". You are very concerned with letting people off the hook if they claim not to be in support of evil actions. You zero in on vagueries of the minor details and what ifs while ignoring the actual facts that should be orders of magnitude more important.

    But sure. to humor you I will say the vast vast vast majority (clarification for u/joan). And you can consider your job done and that you addressed the key problems of our age. Keep on fighting, soldier.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    i don't really disagree with you... overall, yes, anyone who supports genocide from their government sucks! but giving ourselves a reason to be prejudiced against a group of people is how we make another genocide, not fix the ones that are happening. i don't think being careful about racism is a 'vaguery' or a 'minor detail'. thanks for the conversation! ✌️

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