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[–] 195 points 7 months ago (6 children)

Ironically, they’re treating trans women the same way they treat cis women—as sexual objects who don’t deserve bodily autonomy.

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  • [–] 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    I mean, I'd say this is the opposite of ironic, it is extremely expected and logically follows from how the conservative brain/worldview works.

    Basically it just boils down to 'being horny is a sin, sin is an evil, supernatural force or state of being, that acts with will, or comes from deliberate, intentional agency... thus anything that makes me horny, I must dominate, control, defeat, as an external enemy, and also deny that it makes me feel horny, to avoid looking like I have fallen (in) to sin.'

    When you institutionalize the idea of a fundamental, carnal, human desire as supernaturally evil, everything relating to how you interact with or experience that desire becomes a shameful perversion, and then you have to hide that perversion by one means or another, and those means are often conquest, conquest involves 'othering' the enemy.

    For all their talk of personal responsibility, their entire worldview is designed, with many layers of artificial constructs, to shield them from critical self-reflection, to channel them away from actually understanding themselves.

    How can you possibly be responsible for yourself, if you do not even understand yourself, why you do the things you do?

    To them, what is most important is the performance of conformity to a hierarchichal group identity role.

    That's their 'gender'.

    Not self-expression.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    It’s ironic because they insist that trans women aren’t women, but then they treat them like women (in this aspect, at least). That’s irony.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, I've seen this pointed out before. They say that trans women are men, but they don't treat them like men. They treat them like women.

    This reminds me of a friend of mine whose trans daughter attending elementary school had a bully calling her a "boy" and then chasing her around and trying to kiss her. Really, kid? Do you like to kiss boys now? Obviously, sexual harassment isn't cool at any age, and that needs to be dealt with, but it just goes to show that even at that young age deep down they know the difference.

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  • [–] 63 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Huh, and here I thought we didn't like any of the same things.

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  • [–] 57 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    You see the performers as people. They see the performers as fuckmeat. You are not the same.

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Very good point. I also see now that this is only focused on search terms for MtF folk. I'm an equal opportunity gooner, I enjoy some fine-ass FtM peeps in porn too. I have a feeling they don't.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    Republicans don't believe that FtM people exist. In their minds, they're just delusional women who wish they were men, but it makes perfect sense to them that women wish they were men. It would be weirder to them to hear that not all women wish they were men. It's completely part of the sexism and patriarchy.

    The reason that they're so obsessed with trans women by comparison is that it goes against their entire worldview. A man who wants to be a woman? Why would anyone ever want to be a woman?! There's also the bigotry and everything else, of course, but the fact that it defies what they see as the natural order or hierarchy of the sexes drives them crazy.

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  • [–] 104 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    They can't get off if it's mainstream, they need their fetishes to be taboo, and preferably illegal. So, they make it illegal, then rub themselves raw over it.

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  • [–] 39 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I ain't beatin' my meat to trans porn! I swear! I'm just... I'm just researching the enemy!

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    On the bright side, once trans people start to disappear, they will be the first to rebell.

    Ok, maybe just hoping.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    um, if i suddenly stop posting, one of three things:

    i moved to piefed (good ending)
    i'm a refugee somewhere (maybe ending)
    they got me (bad ending)

    i'm not trans, i'm disabled. they're 40 miles away right now. my wife's phone got stingrayed on the way home from work. everyone in the states needs to be making all the plans.

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  • [+] 37 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (9 children)
  • [–] 24 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    They don't even hide it, the Manosphere paradoxaly loves femboys.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    They don't see it that way cause they think being a top isn't gay.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago

    If you can't be "manly™" you can be an object to be fucked. Its manly to push a guy to be feminized, proves you were more man.

    Part of that gay son vs thot daughter bullshit.

    Men are getting left behind and need something to keep them busy and off the streets and its being weaponized as not being manly enough and giving work where they can abuse people to prove they are. Then that work makes everyone more scared and poor and the wealthy have a bunch of thugs that will do whatever is asked.

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  • [–] 32 points 7 months ago (17 children)

    Its also like they all hate undocumented immigrants but only hire them for work.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago* (16 children)

    My dad used to removed about immigrants taking jobs, but would swing by Home Depot to grab some Mexicans whenever he needed extra hands on a construction project. Conservatives are just hypocritical morons.

    EDIT: Wow, this place bans the no-no synonym for the word "complains"? What in the seven nanny hells is that.

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  • [+] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] -5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    EDIT: Wow, this place bans the no-no synonym for the word “complains”? What in the seven nanny hells is that.

    cry harder about not being able to use misogynistic language mate

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 60 points 7 months ago (35 children)

    I don't give a damn what kind of porn people watch. I do care that this colors their perspective on how trans people actually live. Most of us aren't sex workers. And most of us that are don't do it by choice. We're just people trying to live our lives. This kind of thinking is incredibly dangerous, as it leads to believing that someone just being themselves in public is an act of sexual exhibitionism. I didn't transition as a sex thing. My life is not a costume. I transitioned and have lived my entire adult life as myself, worked my entire career and built my entire life around my transitioned name and gender. Rather than a 24/7 drag act, most days I'm wearing jeans and hoodie.

    We're just trying to live our lives in peace. But a bunch of perverts are using their porn habits to inform their moral judgments about an entire class of people.

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  • [–] 29 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    This ties into a bigger issue where almost nothing related to sexuality can ever be healthy or normal to many conservatives.

    Sex to these conservatives is inherently deviant and filthy. Making conscious life decisions related to sexuality or sexual identity will never be just a life decision. It will be equivalent to actively engaging in sexual acts.

    Being trans to them is actively paedophilic because it exposes children to the concept of sexuality and gender. Sex ed will be paedophilic to them because it does the same. Each person's actions are not the sole thing that defines them, but also their position in society as dictated by "what it has always been". Men have always led households by marrying women and having kids, therefore men that don't are a threat.

    Conservatism is quite black or white when it comes to things like identity or introspection. It is an ideology that very frequently wages war on self questioning and exploration in exchange for compliance and conformism. It's why many conservatives hate universities, scientists and partially why they hate immigrants. The entire ideology grows by appealing to people who do not want to be intellectually challenged. It's especially attractive to those that don't want to understand other ways of thinking.

    Conservatism as an ideology always exploits the greatest potential weakness of the left wing: naivety, and presents itself as the "responsible" or "reasonable" solution to a reckless and harmful left wing. They frame things like empathy and humanitarianism as weaknesses rather than virtues.

    It's why most of the conservative rhetoric revolves around "being taken advantage of" or "being scammed by" this or that group. They love stories about immigrants exploiting the system, cheating or stealing because it proves their worldview that what's foreign and unknown is out to get them. It is an ideology driven by fear.

    And the biggest problem is that, unlike progressivism (which also has its ideological vices and weaknesses), conservatism never seeks to help the weak or empower the vulnerable. Instead it seeks to maintain the hierarchy and keep people in their place. In the US that translates to keeping immigrants weak, keeping black people down, keeping women in the kitchen, keeping white men ahead, keeping the US as an imperial power, and keeping its allies subservient.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (2 children)

    Being trans to them is actively paedophilic because it exposes children to the concept of sexuality and gender. Sex ed will be paedophilic to them because it does the same. Each person’s actions are not the sole thing that defines them, but also their position in society as dictated by “what it has always been”. Men have always led households by marrying women and having kids, therefore men that don’t are a threat.

    Our own minds will expose us to sexuality way before the age of 18 though. This is why it's so important to have sex ed. So that kids with feelings won't go messing around (together!) and not knowing what's what. In Holland we've always had that pretty early so teenage pregnancies were super low but lately the conservative forces have also taken hold there. It's blowing over on social media. So now a lot of parents are up in arms over it especially in the mostly religious regions.

    It’s why most of the conservative rhetoric revolves around “being taken advantage of” or “being scammed by” this or that group. They love stories about immigrants exploiting the system, cheating or stealing because it proves their worldview that what’s foreign and unknown is out to get them. It is an ideology driven by fear.

    Yes but it somehow seems to resonate more than it should. I wonder if some people have an innate need for being told what to do. I absolutely don't, I'm very anti-authoritarian. But really the religious conservative life is pretty shit. You have to go to church, have all these boring life rules, you can't have sex with other consensual adults, etc etc. Being left-wing is much more free. Yet people choose to follow religion. I think the indoctrination as a child plays a role in this but I don't really think it would catch on so much if it didn't fill an innate need.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    People like rules that are clearly defined.

    They don't like gray areas.

    Because of the cognitive work involved. People do not want to think about things. They want to know them.

    It's not about authoritarianism, it's about the features of our brains and biology. Learning is literally a painful process for the brain and people avoid it. Not any different than how physical exercise is painful and people avoid it.

    People who seek to learn, just like people who seek physical exercise, have re-wired their brain to enjoy those things than by default, they would not.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Hmm interesting take! I didn't think of it like that.

    I do indeed enjoy learning and also chaos (and what you call gray areas), but I'm very ADHD. A bit autistic too but when it comes to rules the ADHD definitely takes the lead.

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  • [+] -6 points 7 months ago (30 children)

    What? What the hell does transporn have to do with, 1. Your personal identity and 2. How everyone else perceives trans people? Porn is fantasy not real life.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Project 2025 literally has as one of its planks the idea that simply living life as a trans person is a pornographic act. This belief comes from men who see being trans and being pornographic as one and the same. Where do you think that belief comes from?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Not from transporn. That's for sure. These assholes watching transporn is a symptom of what makes people believe in maga, nationalism and project 2025 in the first place. The porn comes after the indoctrination.

    Hold on... Hold on. I know. But think about it. If you're some bloke pulling your pud to transporn and liking it you're not going to all of the sudden become a conservative.

    But if you're a maga asshole conservative and you're being bombarded by anti trans bullshit and go on the internet, you know... Just to take a look to see what the fuss is all about... Then all of the sudden dang that's hot where's the jergens.

    🤷

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (27 children)

    Man, you can't just ignore how porn molds the way people see others and what they expect of them, be it men, women or trans people

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (20 children)

    I mean ya... But this can be said about anything at all. How about the 24 hour news cycle... Just constant news all the time screaming in your face. Or flat Earth videos on YouTube... Millions of people believe the earth is flat. Or maga propaganda permeating literally everything nowadays.

    We're humans and can be easily influenced.

    Furthermore I don't see a mechanism that would support what's being said under the original comment here that would be present in porn to support what you're saying in context.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago* (18 children)

    ... How can you both understand and not understand at the same time? Are you american?

    To sum it up, minorities suffer from the gaze that is cast upon them, especially if this gaze is exploitative, degrading, objectifying and made by and for the pleasure of the oppressor, thus reinforcing the oppressor's bias against the minority.

    If trans porn is the only way these men are confronted to the existence of trans people, they'd oversexualize the idea of trans, which in turn leads them to blame/despise the trans even more (because of both their conservative views and unhealthy relationship with sex), not even leaving trans people the space to be something else in their eyes than objects to jerk off to (aka "people").

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (17 children)

    What does being American have to do with anything?

    Provide a source to support what is clearly a biased opinion.

    What you’re describing, objectification, is a downstream effect, not a cause. A person would already have to hold anti-trans views to behave the way you’re describing. The bias exists prior to the porn consumption, or that bias may even influence the type of content they seek out.

    Roughly 7 out of 10 people in America watch porn at least occasionally. That represents a majority of the population. More than half the country is not anti-trans, which directly undermines your claim about “the perception of trans people.”

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (9 children)

    The person you are interacting with is trying to browbeat you because they don't like what you are saying because they have some weird anti-porn beliefs, which frankly, a lot of people do. They themselves are falling trap to the 'porn corrupts' anti-sex narrative, while seemingly being critical of anti-sex narratives. I see this all the time.

    And they are mad you are suggesting that all media corrupts, and porn isn't some super special deeply influential thing compared to any other media consumption. You evil porn-normalizer!

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    The guy is clearly a troll who has no idea what he's talking about. I went at it with him for a few more exchanges and had to block him. He was more stupid than your average idiot.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Yeah, got it from the "I'm suffering, for x, y and z reasons." "No you're not, prove it" vibe.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (5 children)

    I'm talking about you. You are the problematic person in this exchange, especially exhibited by your need to insult and demean the other user because of your refusal to acknowledge the legitimacy of their points and push your logical leaps and over-generalization that trans porn consumption is necessarily awful.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (4 children)

    I never said trans porn or watching porn was awful. It's not about the content, in that case. It's about the audience.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    ... Are we commenting on the same topic? In that case, american republicans

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (6 children)
    1. it has everything to do with anything.
    2. Litterally, the trans person who you answered to, only to undermine them.
    3. Yes : "thus reinforcing the oppressor's bias against the minority."
    4. "If trans porn is the only way these men are confronted to" i am not generalizing, I'm taking about the precise people who'll both hate trans people in public yet will happily jerk off to trans porn.

    Once again, you choose not to understand what is right in front of your eyes, so you're either:

    1)Straight american brainrotten male, 2)autistic and need precise scientific references to believe something (too bad your president has forbidden it). 3) Conservative and incapable of good faith.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

    To sum it up, minorities suffer from the gaze that is cast upon them, especially if this gaze is exploitative, degrading, objectifying and made by and for the pleasure of the oppressor, thus reinforcing the oppressor's bias against the minority.

    You are making a very specific claim, so support it. Otherwise you're just talking out of your ass, which you objectively are.

    It is beyond obvious that you have a very strong bias against whatever you believe America is, and you are using the exact same tactic a MAGA conservative uses to support their ideology, which makes you no better. You even brought up autism, which is offensive and completely out of context.

    Now, with that said, do you have any way to refute my claim that objectification is a downstream effect of MAGA indoctrination?

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    Nah, I'm talking as a homosexual man exposed to the same kind of effects than the trans person poster: funjoshi fiction, or how straight women appropriate male homosexuality to make and project their uninformed and socially unrealistic fantasies, make a profit off it and shape the perception of the mass about male homosexuality, erasing centuries of oppression as if we had no history (or were all 14 y.o. cocky teenage girls in adult male bodies). Fiction is not real, but when it's all you get and accept as a representation of a community, it is bound to influence one's perception of said community, like propaganda does.

    Autism is not offensive, it's a reality. Some people are autistic and function differently.

    Objectification isn't a product of maga indoctrination, it is a human phenomenon shared by the entirety of the political spectrum. With liberals, for instance, it exists through tokenization of minorities, for a comforting feeling of moral superiority while doing nothing to help. With right-wing people, it allows to deny the humanity of the targeted minority, reinforcing demonization and the creation of an "enemy from within".

    I do have a problem with americans and can't wait for them to finish crumbling. They've hurt the world enough.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Congratulations. No one cares. By admitting you hate Americans, you’ve just undermined everything you claim to stand for. You carry a strong personal bias against an entire population.

    Just like the people you claim to despise, you have no moral high ground. You’re no better than the smooth-brained MAGA idiots, and you’re not worth engaging with.

    Good day. I wish your hypocritical ass the best.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    What I stand for is not an exclusive american property, so I'm very okay with that. Happy crumbling and supporting your pedo-fascist president!

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (5 children)

    I don't know, I'm very sex-positive and I enjoy porn. Sometimes I even learn new things I like from it. I don't think for a minute that it's real and I would not apply it to vanilla people (my more kinky friends however yes if I know they're into something).

    I don't really think my stepsister will get stuck in the washing machine. Does it form sexual behaviour and practices? Probably yes. I'm sure a lot of people try squirting now, which was popularised in porn. Is that bad? No, I don't think so at all. Why would it be? Sex knows fashions just like other human behaviour.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)

    The really crazy one is oral sex. It's become so accepted and ubiquitous that if you don't like it, you're the weird one. But if you stop to think about it, it's clearly a kink.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    Yes I know that oral was not practiced a lot in the past within marriages in particular (though during the war in brothels I'm sure it was). But why do you think it's particularly kinky?

    I agree in terms of deep throating, that's a bit of a kink and I personally don't like doing it (even as the one being deep throated). That was popularized by its namesake movie I think.

    But normal oral how is that so kinky? I personally love it, it's a lot more gentle than regular sex. And it tastes so good 🤭 I even love doing that for hours (both ways) and skipping the penetration part altogether. 😋 But oral kinda feels like it's meant to be done.

    It's not really a modern thing as such either. The kama sutra features a ton of it, including gay and lesbian versions.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    You're kinda proving my point. The reason why you don't see it as kinky is because it's so common. If it wasn't common and normalized, people would see it as a kink. I'm kink-positive; I don't have a problem with that. What I find interesting is how accepted and ubiquitous this one kink has become, and I think we have porn to thank for that.

    It's not really a modern thing as such either. The kama sutra features a ton of it, including gay and lesbian versions.

    Well, that isn't really surprising. I think you would have a really hard... er, difficult time finding a new kink. People have been horny for as long as there have been people, and every imaginable configuration has been tried out thousands of years ago. Except for vibrators or any of the other modern sex toys? Because those didn't exist before.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Hmm how do you define kinks then?

    I really think oral sex is so normal it's never really been a kink except in the strictest communities.

    I agree kinks don't have to be 'new' to be a kink, but I was referring to the link to porn. While it has existed for longer, it's only really been accessible to everyone for a century or so.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    It's not about people thinking whether it's fiction or not, it's about whether porn is the only way these people will be confronted to something they don't know and have biases against and, yes, porn is fiction, but you're presuming that everybody has a sane approach to fiction. Have you not been in a post-truth regime enough, yet?

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  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    Article says there are more searches for trans-related keywords in GOP areas. However it doesn't say anything about trans porn searches vs cis porn searches. It wouldn't surprise me if conservative areas have more searches for porn in general, so all the numbers are higher. Anyway the article uses a lot of statistical jargon without seeming to check this basic issue. FAIL.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    Yeah that is the case. Utah has the highest porn consumption per capita, I recall.

    The more anti-porn a society is, the more they secretly consume porn.

    I have noticed that there is still a huge anti-porn sentiment here as well, that of course, narrowly focuses on porn addiction and extreme genres of pron and generalizes those things as something everyone who watches porn is or must become, rather than acknowledging most porn consumption is limited/casual and porn has a ton of genres and varieties and flavors.

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  • [–] 27 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (7 children)

    Also explains why all the porn of us calls us slurs. I hate it.

    (Seriously, it's so hard finding trans porn that feels like it's for trans people instead of for people that want to dehumanize us)

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago* (4 children)

    Honestly, I think it goes deeper than that, I think that many guys that go for trans porn actually are very into it, probably because it's such a "taboo" subject for them.

    It's similar to whenever there is a Republican or conservative convention somewhere, immediately it becomes a Grindr hotspot.

    There are boat loads of gay / trans people in those extremist communities, because of course there are, and while publicly they will bash anything LGBT, privately they get off on it

    See also that mega extremist church pastor that would constantly bash the gays and then got caught snorting coke from a gay prostitute

    Edit:to add to this: I think that most trans porn made is not primarily made for trans people, but for men. Similarly to how most gangbang porn also isn't for girls, it's for men. Sure, trans people and girls can watch it, enjoy it, everyone is free to do whatever as long as they don't hurt anyone or thing, as far as I am concerned, but the main audience is just plain men.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I know a guy who's a sex worker and he has had quite a few clients who are actively homophobic. When he told me this, I made a comment based on the assumption that these guys were closeted gays with internalised homophobia and he said "no, I think it's something deeper than that"

    His theory was that it's basically a convoluted humiliation kink, where they are genuinely grossed out by the idea of having sex with a man, but they do it anyway because of the tabooness of it

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Totally this.

    I remember reading somewhere long ago about how in Israel gas masks were this taboo thing that came all the way from the holocaust where certain people had it as a kink to wear that with sex, and maybe even inhaling something...

    I think its a "natural" part of humanity to have these kinks, and as long as they are done safely I have little problem with it.

    The real problem is though that people DO like this, but they hate that they like it. This is where you get a pastor screeching how they hate gays because they are so yuckie, yet they snort cocaine from a gay escort dick. (Yeah, I"m talking about that guy)

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    I suppose there"s different kinds of extreme-right and evolutions.
    All awful of course.
    In Europe they misappropriate LGBT to make a point about Islam and their intollerance to it.
    Same for women's rights.
    I do not particularly think they care for any of those.
    Obviously everywhere they stopped being antisemitic to support their fascist zionist partners.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I mean we've seen Alex Jones with a "Naughty tbabe" tab open on his phone.

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