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[–] 43 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

They are flat out lying. Machiavellians tend to be manipulative and giving this knowledge away defeats the goals and purpose of machiavellianism.

Like beating someone to death for not believing you're a pacifist.

Edit: See my other posts for a better take on what's going on here.

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  • [–] 34 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Do people unironically say that about themselves? That’s really weird.

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  • [+] [S] 6 points 7 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Ah. So they read The Prince, and they admire the self-centered, amoral pursuit of political power.

    We call those people conservative or fascist, depending on the degree of ideological rigour and if any off flavours are present.

    To answer your question, I consider the dish ruined. It should be discarded and you should try anew from scratch.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I mean... probably, but he wrote other books. Discourses on Livy is a pretty good read, and definitely not very fascist, or even conservative by today's standard. The guy straight up wrote "it should be the object of every well-governed commonwealth to make the state rich and keep individual citizens poor"

    He is on the cynical side, though

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    "it should be the object of every well-governed commonwealth to make the state rich and keep individual citizens poor"

    Considering that "state" here means him and his buddies, it translates into modern english as "Fuck you, I've got mine".

    Can't get more conservative than that.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Nah. I've been saving up quotes as I've been reading, just for the day when I meet the internet right-wing edgelord who calls himself a Machiavellian, because it's full of stuff like this.

    "A princedom is impossible where equality prevails, and a Republic where it does not"

    "A people is wiser and more constant than a prince"

    "the ambition of the great is so pernicious that unless controlled and counteracted in a variety of ways, it will always reduce a city to speedy ruin"

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    [–] 26 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Attention-seeking. An edgelord, basically.

    If they're actually serious, they might be saying it to inure you to the future bad behavior they wish to exhibit.

    Either way, doesn't sound like a pleasant acquaintance.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    If they’re actually serious, they might be saying it to inure you to the future bad behavior they wish to exhibit.

    Yeah, this is something I notice a lot. People will claim "I am x" and use it to avoid accountability when confronted later about their actions. the X doesn't really matter, it can be a mental illness, a disorder, a belief, etc.

    My favorite part is when they get offended that you are 'judgemental' for not wanting to interact with them once they make this declaration.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Cringe edgelord. Or just a delusional idiot.

    Because of the evil implied in machiavellianism, I'm sure they have plenty of unsavory behavior they would love to see your reaction to.

    True Machiavellian character would not disclose it if they are aware of it.

    Move on, ignore and, if possible, block.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    There is more to it I think. In a masters level course I took, our Instructor was a nearly retired Ph.D in Taxation. He had spent a lifetime in the halls of corporate power as an expert, conducting research and giving policy advice to corporations, governments and institutions.

    Among the friendly banter during breaks, some interesting conversations came up about ethics in business. He interjected and offered an explicit personal opinion. He was very clear he was speaking as a person eating his lunch, not as our instructor and in no way does what he was about to say reflect the course material in any way:

    If you want to understand how corporations' executives and more importantly, how Boards of Directors, and a lot of high level civil servants and political actors really measure performance under these ethical scenarios, read Machiavelli's "The Prince". It explains everything.

    I read it the next day. Then I went on to read Xenophon's "The Education of Cyrus" because Machiavelli referred to it in the book.

    Edit: Having read a few more of OPs responses, I think OPs subject is just saying they agree with/admire Machiavelli's The Prince, and to the point of my story, so do a LOT of powerful people. You know, the types who tend to score high on the DSM's dark triad and run global corporations.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    That's different from someone saying "I'm Machiavellian", which is what OP asked. But taken at face value, without context, one would understand we are talking about someone labelling themselves as such.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    Uh... it was like the default example for "evil leader" before Hitler.

    Sounds like someone who wants attention. Enjoys the edginess and obvious absurdity in a statement like that.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago

    That they take themselves WAY too seriously and they're trying to get whoever's listening to think that way as well.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    they are probably a shitty person.

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  • [+] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago*

    My impression would be that they’re an idiot and overestimate their own intelligence. They also probably complain online that women won’t date them, and most likely voted Republican.

    Republican vote aside (the world does not end at the US borders, mind you, and most of us humans living on this planet your country is mercilessly wrecking havoc upon are not US citizens), I would quite agree.

    'Machiavellian' is not something one will say about themselves, it's something one will say about someone else. Oftentimes misusing it. Hence the importance of reading that (short) book written by Machiavelli, 'The Prince' in which he explains how to be, well, a prince in various types of princedoms. He also shows how 'bad' actions may be the right actions for that prince, but it's far from being limited to that idea.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    Sociopath, most likely.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago
    [–] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I would guess that they know either much less, or much more than I do about Machiavelli, or they're speaking ironically. I'd be curious to engage them in conversation to find out which might be the case.

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    [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    "What? What country is that? Never heard of it."

    (I'm gonna "Sir, this is a Wendy's" the heck out of them)

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    Probably really young and haven't experienced getting burned by such a person before.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago

    They send catty text messages after four glasses of wine to their friends to complain about their kids’ third grade teacher and think they’re being manipulative.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago*

    Republican Machiavelli? Or deliberately giving terrible advice to princes Machiavelli?

    Either way he really hated mercenaries.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago
    [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Without context and tone, no idea.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    Probably exerts a lot of energy fitting into their idea of who they should be compared to others.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago
    [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    More to many comments: why does manipulative need to be bad, or negative?

    The main trigger is a lack of attention from parents in childhood leading to a lack of emotional depth. Such a person may overcome that lack of emotional depth, or emotional intelligence, with logical empathy. I feel like people are way too dichotomous here about something that is far more complex in spectrum. Why hate on people for what amounts to their upbringing. Measure people by their actions. The ability to manipulate, is not itself a negative act. It is in fact a philosopher.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    They're probably neurodivergent.

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