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[–] 150 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Just to spell out what many comments already hint at:

There are no US-made routers. "Made" here refers to companies, not where the stuff is actually made. Even if the plastic housing happened to be made in the US for one or two products, the components are still from far away.

Those few US companies paid MAGA for this.

This is corruption pure and simple.

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  • [–] 102 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    It's incredible how every day in this country continues to be unimaginably dumber than the last.

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  • [–] 100 points 7 months ago

    The rent for your ISP provided hardware is about to go up by x10. Also you will get a letter saying you don't have an approved router installed.

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  • [–] 92 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    So consumer grade routers are a security risk, but not ISP switches or server routers? That's the opposite of what a state level actor would look for.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I mean, it’s kind of old news that these consumer routers make up the majority of bot nets, although I doubt requiring them to be US-made will change much.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 91 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Be ready to get shut out of the global internet and only use Trumpernet.

    Seriously though, they'll block yalls internet access in a few years.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago

    Glad Australia is finally getting some decent fiber links up through Singapore.

    SEA-ME-WE3 is a joke and before IndigoWest and ASC, almost all of our international transit was via US.

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  • [–] 87 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    The only slight problem with this is that there are no routers made in the USA.

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  • [–] 16 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    Well, you can run your own router on your own hardware but other than that, agreed.

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  • [–] 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Is that hardware also made in the US ><

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    My point was mostly that the concept of a router can be executed by any computer with more than one NIC.

    Trump isn’t disallowing computers from outside the US, surely, only stuff that looks like routers. They’ll have a hard time defining what a router is.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    Yeah, I wonder how the dumbasses licking his boots will feel about brands like Qotom/etc making high interface mini pcs- whether they consider them "routers" under this. I hope we don't have to go back to what I did 10 years ago- cheap intel desktops with 3-4 nics.

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  • [–] 72 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    So... all network routers?

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  • [–] 125 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    Are there actually any US-made consumer network routers on the market? All the brands I can think of are pretty much made in Asia these days.

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  • [–] 60 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Ubiquiti is an American company, not sure if the tech is really MADE here though, seems like that'd be weird considering the components are all made outside the US anyway.

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  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Ubiquiti may not be considered consumer with regards to this, but it’s pretty unclear so it’s a bit of a gamble.

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago

    Yeah, it's all so ambiguous. I switched to them because they were better made and cheaper than the Netgear I was forced to replace after 1.5yrs. It'll be interesting to see where this ends up. Probably lawsuits. Glad I'm already set for a while, I guess.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    Functionally no. This will force most users to use whatever their ISP provides.

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  • [–] 18 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Those can’t be imported either lol. This ruling will never stand up in court.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    It's not a ruling, the FCC was ordered decided that they're not going to certify any new foreign made home routing equipment. No certification means the radios won't be legal for consumers to operate

    This isn't a law or judicial ruling, it's policy

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    The FCC is a commission that decides things. It’s a ruling in every sense of the word. And they can be sued for really anything. Here the fcc is getting sued for approving something. https://www.freepress.net/news/public-interest-coalition-sues-fcc-unlawful-approval-largest-broadcast-merger-history

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago

    I mean, you can sue pretty much anyone for anything, but fair... It is technically a ruling

    It's still just a policy though, which means it's easy to change or to do unofficially if the courts reject it (which seems unlikely right now, but I'd love to see it happen)

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  • [–] 56 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I’m so glad they’re focusing on this instead of how shitty and expensive our home internet is.

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  • [–] 47 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    What's the play here? Something isn't making sense.

    With the Trump administration, the only thing you can be sure of is that the stated reason isn't the real reason. Somebody's got to be getting a payday from this.

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago

    It’s a money grab. About the only networking companies that build in the us are like Cisco and juniper. Which odds are, you aren’t running at home. This is without a doubt a money grab. Google and Amazon will gladly pay the exemption fee. Some others will as well. This isn’t about security or “pay American”. It’s a money grab.

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  • [–] 40 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    So at what point do they ban all new computers not made domestically?

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  • [–] 35 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    This is a good time to remind everyone to avoid any of the major manufacturers. Get pre-built OPEN boxes and install OpenWRT. You performance and capabilities will beat the shit out of any of the other stuff anyway.

    Sadly, there were a few great foreign-made manufacturers who had great hardware for this. Technically they aren't "network routers" and just blank hardware, so probably don't fall into the idiotic language put forth here.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I’ve got a GLiNet router with OpenWRT, running adguard on it. Best router experience I’ve ever had. I wonder how quick this ruling takes effect, might be smart to buy another while I can lol

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    YUP. I've deployed hundreds of these. They make good hardware, their developers and hardware engineers are quick to respond to customers, and they just make a good product. They even share their board designs, because why not?

    Sucks they're going to be caught in the crossfire here.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

    any recommended resources to learn more? Is this a lay person accessible option?

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  • [–] 33 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    You can install router software on any computer

    https://opnsense.org/

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  • [–] 15 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    On Linux you can just turn the kernel into a router with a few commands. Its actually very cool.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago

    For anyone looking into this, I recommend picking up a “network appliance” PC. They’re low-spec, often fanless, and come with 4 Ethernet ports. You can often get them for roughly the same price as a router. You will need to provide your own WiFi AP with this method.

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  • [–] 64 points 7 months ago (8 children)

    Great, so zero network products can be sold, and we have to dispose of any existing ones in a couple years.

    I guess the US won't have any Internet anymore.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Based on the language, it would seem to exclude ISP provided routers as those are not “designed to be installed by the consumer”. It also excludes anything not SoHo.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I haven't seen an ISP offer tech installation on anything in years unless the home wasn't pre-wired. Self installation kits are the norm these days.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Where did it say we have to dispose of existing ones? It doesn’t say that no products can be sold, and the article specifically says models that have already been approved can continue to be sold. I also think it’s dumb, but it’s important to be accurate.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    In an exception to the usual rule, routers included on the Covered List can continue to receive updates at least through March 1, 2027, although the date could potentially be extended.

    I guess it depends on what this means here. It COULD mean that you won't get software updates (security updates) next year.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    Lol i love how something so massive was just given an arbitrary 1 year date. We all know it's because nobody dealing with this has any clue what the impact is, and any that do don't care because it will probably be making them more money... no way this all happens within a year, and if it does it's gonna be a shit show.

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  • [–] 30 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Cisco is made in China. Ubiquiti, Vietnam or Thailand I think.

    How is this going to work?

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  • [–] 57 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Something is happening, first the age verification and now this. They're setting up to verify identities online I presume?

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  • [–] 19 points 7 months ago

    I'm more wondering that if all consumer network routers have to be made in the US (e.g. forcing people to use the ISP-provided one), it makes it easier for them to utilise the ISP's backdoors for monitoring of people's LANs. If that's actually the goal, then the next logical step would be to deny anyone access using a third-party router or ISP-provided router that didn't have their firmware.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago

    They're setting up to verify identities online I presume?

    To track online activities.

    To ensure nobody is doing anything the government (or its corporate funders) don't like.

    Look at the Project2025 manifesto and see how much they want people's activities to be controlled.

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  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Protectionism at its finest! What should the rest of the world make of US consumer routers? All good? No backdoors letting friendly people in?

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  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    What the fuck are they doing?

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 child)

    Taking a huge payment from Comcast and Verizon would be my guess. The language appears to exclude ISP-owned routers.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    It's the implementation part of ending net neutrality, the legal framework was put in during Trump's last administration. Goal is to make your home network entirely managed and visible to your ISP, who has huge incentives (financial and otherwise) to comply with government requests for information and censorship.

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  • [–] 23 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

    All the thrift stores here throw them away. I've got dozens of them, variety of all types piled up in the closet because why the fuck the not? Fucking knew they'd come after them eventually.

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Quick question. What would happen if China decided to get angry about this, and stop selling 100% of their goods to American companies unless they allowed 100% of their goods to be sold without restrictions?

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 21 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    designating all consumer routers manufactured outside the U.S. as a security risk

    So this is horseshit, right?

    First of all, ALL routers from ANY country are a security risk? Every single other nation is trying to make Spyware for the average American consumer? Doubt.

    Second, they are extremely concerned with all consumers' security from foreign actors to the point it needs an outright ban on hardware to protect us. God forbid I buy an AVM router from Germany and open up my home networking to German Spies. What if they find out I sometimes visit porn websites and yourube!?

    Third, that the US government, themselves, are trustworthy and wont force backdoors into systems to allow them unfettered access into private networks, something that they HAVE TRIED TO AND SUCCEEDED TO DO IN THE PAST. And also something that they are very clearly opening the door for with all of these legal pushes toward requiring age verification software and OS's. They want to ban foreign routers so that you have to buy routers from companies that they can control. They can ask, coerce and force them to give them access behind the scenes for some bullshit excuse ("protect the kiddies", "law enforcement", "national security", "terrorism"), force them to not tell the public, and then "secretly" monitor every device in the entire country. They are almost certainly already doing this with a significant number of US manufacturers and software developers.

    Fuck these fascists.

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    It is entirely true that all models from all manufacturers are compromised by spy agencies. However the worst offender by far is Cisco even though they’re “American”.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    It is entirely true that all models from all manufacturers are compromised by spy agencies.

    I think there's a little bit of space between "spy agencies employ systems professionals that know the guts of a component's security and tricks to bypass it" and "every device firmware has a double super secret protocol for sidestepping all of its security features".

    However the worst offender by far is Cisco even though they’re “American”.

    Sure. I'm willing to believe that Cisco, specifically, has relationships with the Five Eyes network such that they make monitoring their traffic easier. Even then, there's limits. One thing to say techniques exist to bypass security. Another entirely to know what those techniques are and whether they're practical for application at universal scale.

    One of the more chronic problems that big spy agencies have is sifting through all the spam and bullshit and empty chatter. Decryption takes time. And you can't monitor everything, everywhere, all at once. The bigger sins of Cisco are in how they expedite access on behalf of their agency partners, not that they fail to produce perfectly hack-proof hardware.

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