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[–] 99 points 8 months ago (18 children)

plug a solar panel into a large battery backup, plug the major appliances into that.

Utility companies don't need to know shit.

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  • [–] 26 points 8 months ago (13 children)

    That's what I have. Basically a small-ish parallel electrical system that runs critical loads like a mini split, refrigerator, water heater, etc. And a small UPS for modem/server.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    Out of curiosity, how do you have that setup (at a high level)?

    I've got a bluetti system for emergency power (12kWh, 6kW AC output) but I need to plug things directly into it. It'd be nice to feed it directly to my house wiring but ... selectively. That is, I wouldn't want to power the HVAC but it would be nice to not have to shuffle the fridge/freezer plugs from the wall to the inverter.

    Dedicated circuit(s) with a manual switch from mains to inverter, I'm guessing? But then we get into all the extras required to do that safely and avoid back feeding the grid.

    Granted, they have systems/setups specifically for whole house power but I don't want to feed the whole house, just the important circuits/appliances.

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago* (7 children)

    Basically made a really sturdy pergola and then mounted solar panels to it. Ran that wiring to the MPPT, batteries and inverter in the garage. Put in a new small breaker box right next to the existing one, which made it real easy to just grab the wires for the critical loads and run them over to the new panel.

    No need to worry about backfeeding, as I said they're parallel electrical systems, so it's not possible.

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  • [+] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)
  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago

    I mean the 2 systems are not connected in any way. They're completely independent.

    If it stays cloudy for a few days, or I am anticipating a potential outage, I can plug in a battery charger to the grid.

    My batts are 48V EG4 units. But I would go the "DIY" route if I were to do it again, they are considerably less expensive.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    You could plug the bluetti into wall power and while there is wall power it runs off that like a UPS.

    That setup I believe would also use solar while it was producing, but the moment solar was gone it'd switch to the house power.

    If the overall load is more than house power can give via an outlet (you could add a beefier outlet if the bluetti supports higher inputs) it'd start draining the battery.

    I dont know if bluettis software says use solar / battery only until battery is 10% kinda thing so this might not be optimized to use solar properly.

    Edit: just realized someone else was the one who mentioned bluetti, and not OP, but this is doable with other systems too.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    These can output 1800W, 1100Wh, Starts at CAD$700 then you just pay more for more storage for bigger systems.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago

    That's a very small system that won't power much at all. Additionally I don't recommend these "all in one" systems, as they're typically more expensive, not as good, nor are they modular or repairable. Those are really if you need a "mobile" system.

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    My thoughts exactly. Also I wouldn't really like to risk my stuff by connecting to their infrastructure anyway. At least over here, I saw how incompetent they are. 

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    I was going to say California. We have constant outages — having grown up in blizzards and tornados I never imagined they wouldn’t be able to keep power on here. It’s bad, like I mean when there’s a little wind it’s probably not staying on.

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  • [–] 86 points 8 months ago (11 children)

    Why don't we just change the revenue model for power companies. I understand they need money to maintain the infrastructure and pay employees. If power generation becomes so cheap that it can't sustain the company then don't rely on that for revenue. I'd rather pay a flat rate for the infrastructure and operating costs than a fluctuating generation charge. And public utilities should not be for profit.

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  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Many places already do charge a “line charge” if you have solar power and use little or no utility company power. You pay for being hooked up to the grid even if you barely use it.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago*

    This is how it works in my area. I pay about $12/mo in fees, the rest is handled by solar. They don't pay me for excess solar, instead I get credit (in kWh, not dollars, thankfully) for it and any electricity I use at night or in the winter comes from that pool. Essentially, it makes the power company a big battery for me.

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  • [–] 21 points 8 months ago

    When I got solar panels on my previous home there was a $5 a month line charge. That when went up to $8 the next year, then $10, then closer to $20. The power company (Duke Energy in case anyway wants to the shitty company's name) was determined to make it as painful as possible for people to use Solar. They were also apparently responsible for pushing to get it illegal in that area to go "off grid" and to have a cap on the amount of solar power a home could generate. At now point did these line changes stop them from raising the normal power usage rates mind you, this was just an extra "fuck you" from them.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    That's what your public service commission is for! (In most states). They come up with how the costs of the utility gets passed to consumers. I agree that making sure that infrastructure costs get passed to people who have solar panels, especially if they are relying on that infrastructure at sun-not-being-in-sky hours.

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  • [–] 1 point 7 months ago (4 children)

    Ohio does something like that. We have separate contracts with a heavily regulated grid operator for distributing power, and our choice of generation companies for providing power.

    The grid operator does our metering and billing, but forwards our generation charge to the provider we select.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (3 children)

    Considering how horribly corrupt PUCO is- part of quite literally the largest modern bribery scandal (possibly the largest in the history) of the US, lets maybe not use Ohio as an example here.

    For context for everyone else, this was so bad republicans literally threw a senior republican politician (sitting state representative, former speaker of the house) in jail for a 20 year sentence.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    I love a story with a happy ending.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

    Oh no, everyone else in the republican party got off scott-free, including the current sitting governor, and the laws and funding that were bribed into existence are still around as a result, and the taxpayer money (over 1 billion of it) won't be repaid.

    I think the only exceptions to them getting off scott-free is Larry Householder, who I mentioned is in jail, and Sam Randazzo, the former PUCO chair who committed suicide. And I supposed technically the ex GOP chair Matt Borges, who was convicted, but released almost immediately.

    FirstEnergy themselves are being investigated, the sitting US Senator just testified iirc last week on the matter, but the politicians that facilitated everything have otherwise not been charged with anything and there's no intent to, and the judge seems fairly intent on ensuring no one at FirstEnergy goes to jail as well. She's been overreaching by trying to squash any journalistic coverage of the court case, to the point of where multiple newspapers/news companies are suing her. She also just straight up dismissed money laundering charges, claiming that the prosecution hadn't proven that the defendants knew that they payments they made were illegal.... despite the prosecution providing the defendants' own text messages celebrating it, and documents and fucking testimony from FirstEnergy's own attorney advising them against the payment. On top of that, she dismissed the charges despite the fact that the case is still ongoing and evidence is still being entered into the record!

    So yeah, it's fucked, and it's likely to resolve with them getting away with it. $60 million in various bribes for over $1 billion in Ohio taxpayer money, propping up power plants that don't even serve Ohio.

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago

    If power generation becomes so cheap that it can’t sustain the company then don’t rely on that for revenue.

    I'm not aware of anywhere power generation is that cheap yet. That may be a problem for the future when commercial fusion is viable, but thats likely a lifetime away.

    I’d rather pay a flat rate for the infrastructure and operating costs than a fluctuating generation charge.

    I think everyone would, but the cost for generation is always fluctuating because the variation in the market for the fuels that generate electricity, supply, and demand of electricity on the market. If its a flat rate, and that rate is below the cost of generating the electricity, who pays?

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  • [–] 51 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    If your business is critical for modern human living, it should be non-profit. It should be guided by the best management plan of the time, debated and approved by the majority of shareholders. It should open its books and stay open.

    Really, it should be government.

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  • [–] 22 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    May I introduce you to the concept of 'natural monopoly'.

    Basically most natural monopolies (power, phone lines, roads etc) in most places were historically run by governments (because it's bloody sensible) until the neoliberal movement in the 80s privatized them because 'private enterprise is more efficient' (at extracting tax dollars as it turned out) and to balance a few budgets.

    Should definitely be ruled a failed experiment and rolled back.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Hold on! You're telling me every common utility is run by corpos in America? I thought it was limited to only telecom.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    The "natural monopoly" of electrical power is only on the distribution, not the generation of that power. It is reasonable for various generators to compete against each other to meet grid demand.

    You should be able to push power back onto the grid. You should not be limited only to taking it off the grid. If you can put more on than you remove, you should be compensated for your generation at the market rate.

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago*

    My power company is a co-op. They have long term contracts with various providers, so my power bill doesn't fluctuate much on short term news.

    At the end of every year, we get a dividend check in the mail for any excess profit.

    Pretty sure all utilities should work that way.

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  • [–] -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    Are you saying that electrical power should only be provided by government entities?

    Should you be allowed to plug in a solar panel and provide power back to the grid?

    Are you a government entity?

    If you think you should be allowed to backfeed your own meter, you are calling for the grid to be operated as some sort of market. A regulated market, sure. But a market nonetheless.

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  • [–] 34 points 7 months ago

    Capitalism. Anyone who tries not to buy my shit is my enemy.

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