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[–] 71 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Just put a "not for use in the state of California" disclaimer somewhere. Then automatically set every user's birthday to January 1st, 1970.

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Many projects are doing the "not for use in California" thing. I'd set the birthday to yesterday - it is the safest. This is only useful as a do-not-track, and kids get the best protection there. For anything else - kids are well able to change their birthday on the computer, so if you want to protect kids from harmful content (whatever that is - no two people agree if you dig deep enough) you need something that is stronger than a claimed age.

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  • [–] 27 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    As a kid, me and a friend bought the game "Leisure Suit Larry" or one of the sequels. It included an age check because of adult content. After asking our age, which we dutifully entered as 19, it would ask questions that only an adult would know, like "who was the US president in 1962?" We would research these questions in my friend's encyclopedia to play the game.

    Now, I have all this trivia knowledge in my head due to my childhood quest to see highly pixelated cartoon boobies in 640x480 resolution.

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago

    which we dutifully entered as 19, it would ask questions that only an adult would know, like “who was the US president in 1962?”

    To think there was a time when Amerikkkan adults actually knew some History, that the developers could trust to use as an age check! Quite the surprise, I imagine in part it was thanks to Carmen Sandiego.

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  • [–] 48 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    California does not make laws for the entire country or the entire world. Perhaps "Linux" should be distributed from elsewhere and offer zero compliance, from a location outside CA jurisdiction. I know there are some distros that are published from the EU for example.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    There are several people who work on linux who live in California who thus are subject to California laws. There are people who don't live in California who sometimes travel to California and thus could be subject to those laws at times (see a lawyer)

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Those people should all tell California to fuck off then. California can't tell me to do shit.

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  • [–] 22 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Unenforceable and lacking jurisdiction.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago

    It being unenforceable is part of the ploy. It means moneyful entities, like say Microslop or a Christofascist national church, can harass developers aligned with non-rightwing principles via lawsuits. They don't have to prosper, they just have to cause a cost in money and quality-of-life.

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  • [–] 21 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    You know why they're quiet? Because they don't answer to anybody.

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  • [+] 18 points 8 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago

    Do it. See what happens with the internet when suddenly no Linux will boot without manual intervention.

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Roughly 1 in 8 Americans are Californians.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    We are TIRED TO BE ALL RHE WORLD ALWAYS HARRASSED BY USA 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    As is this bill is waaaay too broad. It seems the legislative body recognizes that so hopefully there will be a significantly narrower definition for what applications require age assurance. If you live in Cali call your state reps, and voice your concerns! I do like the idea of age verification via device attestation, way less invasive than uploading a pic of your ID to some chuckle-fuck 3rd party that is gonna get hacked. I would like no age verification being forced, but it looks like that is not gonna happen.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    it looks like that is not gonna happen.

    It is if we avoid products and people associated with this. Warn the people.

    But I don't live in California and my people are petty as fuck. Try to buy a coke in Newfoundland for the last 40 years.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Because nobody is going to comply, it will go completely unenforced, and nothing will happen.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    LOL login command line....

    Error can I see your face please?
    Nah! I got no camera and this is CLI.

    Hmm okay, I guess.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    We have no control over our government

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    At this point, I'm waiting for Europe to fork Linux if this happens

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    I'm not sure what you mean by fork Linux, are you referring to the kernel? In which case I would say that it is already meaningfully developed by Europeans, if you meant something different I don't see the vision.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    But why? Apart mass surveillance

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  • 17 comments in c/legalnews@lemmy.zip view that post
    [+] 19 points 8 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago

    And how would this be enforced?

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago

    Good luck with that, I guess California will exclusively use Windows then.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    I can't imagine they'll enforce this on every flavor of Linux. Also, pretty sure it's just asking for a box where you enter your own age at installation. Nothing even verifiable. What would the penalty for not doing it even be?

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (5 children)

    What would the penalty for not doing it even be?

    $2500 fine for negligent failure to do it.

    $7500 fine for deliberate failure to do it.

    With increasing penalties and enforcement mechanisms for continued noncompliance.

    Will they be able to enforce those fines on anyone outside of California? Maybe, maybe not. Remains to be seen. May depend on your local jurisdiction's level of cooperation.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    It's a pretty wild thing to attempt enforcing here. It's not like kids don't actually immediately find the work-around for this stuff. And this one doesn't appear to be anything more than an age tied to the user account of your OS. Simple to move around.

    But this "for the kids" crap is always lip-service at best, and something more nefarious at worst. The US foster care system is a prime example of that kind of thing gone rampant.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    And this one doesn’t appear to be anything more than an age tied to the user account of your OS. Simple to move around.

    I think the concept is that when a parent sets up a device for their child, they'll enter the child's age during the setup process, not giving the child an opportunity to lie about it.

    But, yeah, there will be numerous ways around it, for sure.

    • Factory reset the device and redo the setup with a different age.

    • Run a VM inside the device and set up the VM with a different age so they can access restricted content from within the VM.

    • High possibility of nefarious online services/apps being developed that take the age string sent by your OS/browser to websites, intercept it, and change it before sending it out. (And probably track you while doing so.)

    • Simply access smaller and/or international websites that don't ask your OS/browser for your age.

    • Find adult content on websites/services (like Roblox) that are supposedly child-friendly, but have poor content moderation and a lot of adult content.

    ... just to name a few obvious ones.


    Also ... I really wonder if developers will think to increase the user's age over time or not.

    Like... If you enter your age as 16, then use the device for 5 years, will it update your age to 18 after two years and therefore change it to an 'over 18' age string?

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    And what about just creating another user account under the same OS? I guess the parents could password lock access to other accounts and keep a child account from being able to create a new one, but I've met parents and their lack of basic technical understanding.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    All I hear is parents in politics are "too busy" to setup adult blocking on there kids devices. Witch means these parents shouldn't have kids if u can't parent and research how to do the setup for setting the age content on Apple and microsoft and android platforums. Its all a google search away but i guess it easier to make laws for developers than to be a parent ? .Well as I see it Texas blocked Pornhub like turning on a light switch ,I say we just block CA from the rest of the USA if parents can't parent or these "adults" that can't parent need to get better on their pull out game or put on a condom not my problem you can't parent ur cum pets. 

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Here's the thing, open source is big business for the likes of Canonical and Red Hat. There is no need for any of this to be in the linux kernel, or even in the window system. It is a pretty trivial feature to implement as a simple add on, and those who sell Linux based OSes and support contracts will ensure that they can continue to do business in a market as large as California. The law is clearly not perfect, but it's also not awful. My understanding is that it does not mandate any kind of age verification, only age declaration. The idea is to let a porn website or similar ask the browser "Is the user 18 or older" and get a response based on an age provided when the user account was created.

    If you accept that there is content on-line which small children should not access, then it follows that some type of age verification beyond "Click here only if you're old enough" is necessary. Something like this, baked into the browser and/or OS, is kind of the least bad option. When you look at the kind of AI age verification garbage some web sites and apps are starting to do, an age signal baked into the OS actually starts to look pretty good. If this gets adopted widely and sites start to take advantage of it to skip the "I'm totally old enough" button, I'll be happy to tell my OS what my birthday is... Jan 1, 1970.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    If you accept that there is content on-line which small children should not access, then it follows that some type of age verification beyond “Click here only if you’re old enough” is necessary.

    No, that does not necessarily follow.

    This is shifting responsibility for children away from the parents and onto software developers. But an argument could be made that it's the parent's responsibility to monitor their child's internet usage and prevent them from accessing things they should not access.

    How about, instead of fining software developers for allowing a child to access inappropriate content, we fine the child's parents for allowing their child to access inappropriate content?

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Here's the thing, this doesn't apply only to "those who sell Linux based OSes and support contracts". Read the blog post again and my recent comments at https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/55723652/24217066 and I hope you'll see the problems. 😐

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    I agree that it's a poorly written law, I mean it was written by politicians who don't understand what an OS is. My main point is that something baked into the OS and browser is better for a handful of reasons than most of the other 'solutions' we're seeing.

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  • 7 comments in c/freesoftware@lemmy.zip view that post
    [–] 6 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    First, the open source world isn't monolithic, by definition. Second, why should "the world" in general care about the plans from some unhinged regional policymakers from a country that bet on isolationism?

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Second, why should “the world” in general care about the plans from some unhinged regional policymakers from a country that bet on isolationism?

    Because they're afraid of getting fines issued against them from the state of California. $2,500 to $7,500. Depending on where your project is based, enforcement and collection of that fine might be difficult and unlikely ... but the chances of actually having to pay that fine probably aren't zero. And for a lot of open source projects even one instance of getting hit with a fine like that would far exceed their budget and force them to close down.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    That's not how jurisdiction works, though. If you have a presence in California, sure that applies to you. Otherwise? California has no ability and no legitimacy under international laws to enforce this. Then there are bilateral treaties that muddy the waters, but that doesn't apply here on the basis that it's a state law and it can't apply retroactively. Also, IANAL and would love to hear from one.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Are people being fined by Saudia Arabia for making media depicting homosexuality in other countries?

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago*

    Everybody go change your grub.cfg to change every entry title to read "I'm over 18 and I want to run Ubuntu" or "I'm over 18 and I want to run Arch".

    Then add an "I'm under 18" entry that does the "halt" Grub command.

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  • 2 comments in c/technology@lemmy.zip view that post
    [–] 6 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Flathab does lowkey need an optional 18+ toggle, I was like wow linux is great they should use this in schools, then saw some sextoy applications and was like yeah that would get that shutdown and swapped with something more appropriate real quick

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  • 1 comment in c/california@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Honestly the whole article comes across as fearslop that Lemmy will eat up

    Tension with Open Source licensing

    Not really, open source licenses make sure that if you can get the app, you can get the code, they don't typically require that your application MUST be available to children.

    No central authority

    Having an API that covered applications can hit and verify if the user is a child or not, doesn't require a central authority, that's good.

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