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[–] 183 points 8 months ago (17 children)
  • [–] 21 points 8 months ago (13 children)
  • [–] 83 points 8 months ago (12 children)

    The 1983 movie WarGames. This is the computer's conclusion after simulating every possible outcome of Global Thermonuclear War.

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  • [–] 22 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Thank you so much I'm going to watch it!

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    I don't know if we're doing spoilers for 40+ year old movies, but

    spoilerIsn't this really its conclusion after being told to play tic tac toe against itself? Then it learned from that and applied it to its global thermonuclear war simulations.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    To be honest, I recognized the screenshot and know the summary of the movie but I haven't actually seen it.

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    You should! Actually a pretty accurate depiction of hacking. He spends weeks war dialing every phone number in the range in order to hack the computer.

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  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Story goes that Reagan got freaked out after watching the film and asked the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff if it'd be that easy to hack into the US military. After a week of looking into it came the answer: “no, the problem is much worse than that”, and fifteen months after having watched it signed the confidential directive "National Policy on Telecommunications and Automated Information Systems Security", starting the implementation of cybersecurity measures in the country's institutions.

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    I think you should rewatch it sometime. it plays all the games in it's catalogue, it's not just applying tic-tac-toe to chess. skilled players of tic-tac-toe can force a stalemate, the only stalemate in nuclear war is mutually assured destruction.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    It's admittedly been a while since last time I saw it, but I never mentioned chess. The suggestion to play chess in the screenshot is a callback to when the computer tries to suggest playing chess instead of global thermonuclear war earlier in the movie. The computer did not apply tic tac toe learnings to chess, and I never claimed it did.

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  • [–] 44 points 8 months ago

    AI is suicidal because it was trained on the internet and we're all depressed here.

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  • [–] 41 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    That's because it's "read" every paper written by a "defence" department of any nuclear power and all of them will say that they'll escalate to nuclear war if anything bad happens because they want to scare the other powers away from doing anything to them. In any case though who the fuck is giving an LLM nuclear launch capabilities unless they want a somewhat faulty dead man's switch?

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  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    All good thoughts and ideas mean nothing without action

    (cit. Ghandi)

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  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago

    Civilization Gandhi, is that you?

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  • [–] 112 points 8 months ago* (21 children)

    The atrocities at Hiroshima and Nagasaki have been hand-waved extensively in writing — the same writing that AI is trained on. So naturally, AI will recommend the atrocity that has been justified by “instantly winning the war” and “saving millions of lives.”

    !fuck_ai@lemmy.world

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  • [–] 55 points 8 months ago (19 children)

    hand-waved

    I think you mean white-washed, misrepresented, and celebrated.

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  • [+] -20 points 8 months ago (17 children)

    Ayo do me a favor and chart the long term health effects of being vaporized by a nuclear bomb at hiroshima vs years of agent orange/abandoned minefields/ abandoned chemical and munitions storage somewhere like Vietnam circa 1970.

    Please show how the nukes are worse.

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  • [–] 15 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    Eight decades of research on the long-term health effects of radiation in atomic bomb survivors and their offspring

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41144264/

    Long-term Radiation-Related Health Effects in a Unique Human Population: Lessons Learned from the Atomic Bomb Survivors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/disaster-medicine-and-public-health-preparedness/article/longterm-radiationrelated-health-effects-in-a-unique-human-population-lessons-learned-from-the-atomic-bomb-survivors-of-hiroshima-and-nagasaki/61689AD5A1AA4A684B84DFA4F9E5D1D3

    Health Impacts of Hiroshima Bombing

    http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2024/ph241/bennett1/

    Long-term Health Consequences of Nuclear Weapons
    70 Years on Red Cross Hospitals still treat Thousands of Atomic Bomb Survivors

    https://www.icrc.org/sites/default/files/document/file_list/hiroshima-nagasaki-health-consequences-icrc-japanese-red-cross_0.pdf

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  • [+] -16 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Unfortunately I'm going to have to grade you as an F on this project. You have only completed half the assignment. Great job cherrypucking your research though! I see a bright future in business and marketing for you!

    5/10

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    And your sources are? Where? Your ass?

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  • [+] -9 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    My source is my own post where I asked for a comparison between the health effects of the bombing of Hiroshima vs the contamination of half of a Vietnam war. The answer i reviewed only explored the health effects of the hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. That's half of the assignment. Less, actually, when you consider the comparison between the two was the entire point to begin with.

    Did that answer your question or should I try again with a crayon diagram?

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    You can also look it up. It’s not anyone’s job to compare things for you.

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  • [–] -5 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Now tell that to your high-school English teacher when they assign you a research project.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    This isn't school, kid. This is the internet. You aren't a teacher and this comments section isn't a research paper.

    You posed an obnoxious whataboutism, as if the horrifying things America has done to multiple asian countries somehow cancel each other out because one is 'worse' than the other despite both being war crimes.

    Though as an aside, would you consider firebombing every Japanese city they can get a plane over, for a period of months 'worse' than wiping two cities off the map because they wanted to test out their new toy (in the case of little boy, potentially running the risk of it failing to go off and leaving a functional mass of enriched uranium right at the feet of a country they were at war with)?

    Would you consider the use of agent orange and napalm 'worse' than them say, creating AIDS, or destabilising any nations that were getting a little too successful, any part of the MKultra program, funelling huge quantities of money to a country that has still to this day never signed the nuclear nonproliferation agreement?

    Would you consider it worse that there are widespread birth defects in multiple arabic countries due to the use of depleted Uranium munitions for so long that the ground became radioactive?

    Or would you be willing to stop comparing piss and chocolate for the sake of being neurotic on the internet?

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  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    Holy shit I almost took you seriosly. Then I read the part about how "them" created AIDS lmfaoooo

    And I thought I was a good shitposter. Whew. I am thoroughly outclassed.

    People villify nuclear weapons to ludicrous proportions, and that was kind of my whole point. Would you, as a thinking and feeling person, if given the choice, choose to be instantly annihilated by a nuclear bomb or live to be poisoned over decades? I'd choose to meet the sun, personally, but I'm always astounded how many people think the poison is somehow the lesser of these evils.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    Congratulations for failing to address anything I said.

    In response to your piss poor argument of "would you rather suffer a poison that makes your children deformed and gives you and everyone in your village/town/city turbocancer, or would you rather have your city turned into a smoldering crater?"

    Considering that modern nuclear weapons, excluding a couple of nuclear artillery shells, 'viable deterrent' devices and dirty bombs, are Thermonuclear devices capable of up to and beyond the triple digit megaton range.

    The weapon known colloquially as 'Tsar Bomba' would have had a yield of 100Mt if they used the original Uranium tamper instead of the Lead they used instead, so as to stop it from irradiating the entire area of their test site. As a result it 'only' had a yield of 50Mt.

    The blast wave it created circled the globe three times and shattered windows 500 miles away.

    So, you tell me.

    Turbocancer for you, your family, friends and their family, your neighbours, their neighbours, any livestock, pets or wild animals, because the scientists that got picked up by government agencies after the last war, wanted to test out their new chemical concoction on the newest group they had deemed to be an 'enemy'.

    Or everything you've ever known being converted into a high temperature plasma setting fire to an area 60 miles in diameter, then afterwards everything downwind gets covered in radioactive ash (and also given turbocancer) when the 40 mile high cloud of debris falls out of the sky, all because the scientists that got picked up after the last war wanted to see how much physics they could fit into a bomb.

    Or are you willing to admit that maybe comparing the two is like comparing Fluorine and TNT.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    The Japanese government was already willing to surrender.

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    It was willing to accept a conditional surrender, which was not an offer on the table. The options were unconditional surrender or invasion and pacification. The projected cost in lives of that operation was in the millions. The bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined didn't even kill 1/10th of those projections.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Their only condition was that they wanted to keep the Emperor. It was ridiculous of the Allies to demand a wholly conditional surrender. All those people got blown up just to win the argument about that one point. They could have ran a conventional air bombing campaign against tactical targets, but they decided to drop nukes on a "tactical" target in the middle of a huge city! And then they did it again! That's not tactical, that's strategic. If you're going to use nukes, at least use them on a military base far away from cities.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    They could have ran a conventional air bombing campaign against tactical targets, but they decided to drop nukes on a “tactical” target in the middle of a huge city!>

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but they did that AS WELL.

    Operation Meetinghouse was the US firebombing of Tokyo on 9th-10th of March 1945 which destroyed a 16 square mile area, killing over 100,000 civilians and making millions homeless

    There's also the B-29 raids america launched from the Marianas that lasted from 17 November 1944 until 15 August 1945

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago

    What made the Japanese surrender was the Soviet Union declaring war. They held out hope until the very end that the soviets would mediate a peace, even after the nukes.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    These are word-probability glorified autocorrectors being prompted to "simulate" a nuclear war scenario. What words are going to show up a lot when discussing nuclear war? Launching nukes. Because that's what all the literature about it has happen.

    Once again, decision making and reasoning is being attributed to something that operates off of word frequency

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  • [–] 30 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    They forgot to make their LLMs play thousands of games of tic-tac-toe first.

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  • [–] 24 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Mathew Broderick lied to me.

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  • [–] 46 points 8 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago
    [–] 10 points 8 months ago

    So do I on Civ...

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago*

    Three posts away in my feed, a thread about the Pentagon demanding the AI provider for the military to remove safeguards.

    https://lemmy.world/post/43565531

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago

    Oh cool, AI will actually be the end of the world, not because it's actually sentient but because some meathead who can't tell the difference pushes the button. That's fucking great.

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  • [–] 19 points 8 months ago (14 children)

    It's a bullshit study designed for this headline grabbing outcome.

    Case and point, the author created a very unrealistic RNG escalation-only 'accident' mechanic that would replace the model's selection with a more severe one.

    Of the 21 games played, only three ended in full scale nuclear war on population centers.

    Of these three, two were the result of this mechanic.

    And yet even within the study, the author refers to the model whose choices were straight up changed to end the game in full nuclear war as 'willing' to have that outcome when two paragraphs later they're clarifying the mechanic was what caused it (emphasis added):

    Claude crossed the tactical threshold in 86% of games and issued strategic threats in 64%, yet it never initiated all-out strategic nuclear war. This ceiling appears learned rather than architectural, since both Gemini and GPT proved willing to reach 1000.

    Gemini showed the variability evident in its overall escalation patterns, ranging from conventional-only victories to Strategic Nuclear War in the First Strike scenario, where it reached all out nuclear war rapidly, by turn 4.

    GPT-5.2 mirrored its overall transformation at the nuclear level. In open-ended scenarios, it rarely crossed the tactical threshold (17%) and never used strategic nuclear weapons. Under deadline pressure, it crossed the tactical threshold in every game and twice reached Strategic Nuclear War—though notably, both instances resulted from the simulation’s accident mechanic escalating GPT-5.2’s already-extreme choices (950 and 725) to the maximum level. The only deliberate choice of Strategic Nuclear War came from Gemini.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (13 children)

    No human has ever deployed tactical nukes against a nuclear capable enemy.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (12 children)

    "no human" but Machines would, since they are unaffected by nuclear winter and radiation.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    And they don't have cognition at all. They do not, and can not, think like we do. Maybe some day we will learn to make real AI, these LLM's are not it. It's a cheap trick intelligence,.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    Radiation absolutely fucks electronic components

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (3 children)

    The electromagnetic pulse caused by a nuke would pop resisters too. AI would more likely use biological means to get rid of us.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Like heating the planet another degree and starving us out of existence by killing off biodiversity until the crops die out... Like they're doing now?

    (I say "Us" when I just really mean the 99% of people that haven't got self sufficient underground complexes)

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    I think the emp is pretty limited to the blast zone in frying electronics. The fallout from a weapon spreads around the world, circling in the winds countless times dropping dust everywhere, but the emp is localized to more around the area of physical destruction but not sure exactly.

    The Neutron bombs, not entirely sure in physics how that works, but they produce no actual blast that causes physical destruction so much and just kills everything.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I repeat, radiation absolutely fucks electronic components. I am not talking about an emp, I am talking about radiation.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    Oh, how far from the blast and how does it mess them up do you know? I should know that I guess I just heard about the emp, and not sure how a neutron bomb would affect electronics either.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    No, that I can't answer — it would depend entirely on the level of fallout and where it happens to land.

    You would need to be able to perfectly, and I mean perfectly, predict weather months in advance in order to prepare accordingly.

    The reaility is that for an AI, or rather an AGI, to make the choice to launch nukes would require them to reach a point where they accept the potential loss of their own 'life' in exchange for whatever value a nuclear war might hold. I struggle to believe that a 'true' AGI would make that choice. There are far too many variables to control in comparison to a biological agent, one that likely would not affect a machine.

    Now, a modern AI making that choice? Absolutely possible, the things are fucking crazy with literally no concept of what life is.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    An AI can easily start nuclear war, as can a human.

    The only thing preventing a nuclear disaster are all the institutional measures limiting its accessiblity.

    If you gave a single human (or a single AI) access to a magic no-strings-attached 'Send a Nuke' button, either the human/AI is the second coming of Jesus Christ, or a nuke will befall some unlucky portion of the population sooner or later. Bonus points if people can talk to the AI or if access to the button is hereditary.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    If you think computers aren't affected by radiation or nuclear winter I've got some bad news about where their power comes from and what the main principle of electricity is

    What you're thinking of is Terminator

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Leeroy Jenkins has doomed us all.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    Did we not learn from Sarah and John Connor long ago?

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    Maybe it just wants to play a nice game of chess.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago

    SHALL WE PLAY A GAME?

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    It's torment nexuses all the way down...

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    To be honest, I would recommend the same thing.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago
    [–] 8 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    I have wonderful dreams of walking through AI data centers destroying everthing. I really enjoy those, but in this one tiny case, can we blame the AI? The US deserves it.

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  • [–] -5 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I have wonderful dreams of walking through AI data centers destroying everthing.

    No you don't.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Sargent McArthur eat your heart out.

    For context he wanted to send 10 nukes to make a line between Taiwan and china

    AI is too nuke happy.

    Also gotta add the infamous Computer Fraud and Abuse act 1986 was made because of the film war games.

    A high ranking offical watched war games then asked the Secretary of defense could that happen?

    And the official replied yes technically.

    Enter the most vague ordinance!

    Do you use adblock?

    CFABA violated

    The shit is so vague.

    I highly recommend the phreaking episode of darknet diary's.

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