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[–] 368 points 8 months ago* (28 children)

Hi Brenda,

I wanted to reach out regarding a small observation I made in your last email. In telling me how to spend 30 minute meal break and encouraging me to cut it short for the company's benefit, you violated US labor law.

Let's correct this behavior and try to be more mindful of that "our company is not above the law" spirit so we can keep your momentum going in the right direction. :-)

Eric

P. S. I will be retaining this communication in case this remains an issue. Thanks :-)

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  • [+] 211 points 8 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (14 children)
  • [–] 170 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    She did also say "correct this behaviour" which is the corpo way of saying "do it or else"

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  • [+] 75 points 8 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (8 children)
  • [–] 47 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Doesn't "correct this behavior" very directly imply that the current behavior (in this case, taking your full lunch break) is incorrect and therefore in need of correction, though?

    It's one thing to suggest something, but calling it a "correction" changes things, I'd think.

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  • [–] 72 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    If you were in a jury box and were shown just this message and a note about how he was fired two months later for "not being a team player" you'd infer the intent and vote to hold the company liable for wrongful termination.

    Corpospeak keeps a "work through lunch" message from being a self-evident labor law violation even if no adverse action occurrrd. They don't disguise intent if those later bad actions occur

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  • [+] 38 points 8 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)
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  • [–] 51 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    And that's why you retain the email. Establishing a pattern makes the specific language less important, although in this case there's a pretty clear implication that the employee will be punished for using their full meal break.

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  • [–] 43 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Ianal but "voluntarily" taking a shorter lunch break is still illegal in some states. In my state, my boss would get in trouble if it could be proven that they knew I wasn't taking the full, mandatory 30 minutes.

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  • [–] 22 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Lol this but CC your state labor board

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  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago

    Imo the move is to respond with a clarifying question about whether the hr person is asking them to cut breaks short while reiterating that asking them to do so is a violation of labor law and document the hell out of it.

    If it happens again, then make a complaint with labor. This shows that you are operating in good faith and giving the company a chance to correct before going nuclear, which further strengthens your case if you do have to report.

    Sometimes the hr person is just an idiot. I've seen suggestions like this before and it turned out the hr person literally didn't know you can't just arbitrarily deduct wages without explicit permission from the payee (and in some states, not even then).

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  • [–] -1 points 8 months ago

    Reply from state labor board: oh hey sorry yeah turns out there's no laws requiring breaks federally or in then vast majority of states. Maybe find a new job if you don't like it gl bro

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  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (10 children)

    US Labor Law

    HahahahahahHahahahahahahahah*wheeze*HAHHAHAHAHA

    There are no US laws requiring work breaks. Less than 10 states edit: around 20 have laws that require one.

    In the vast majority of states you could be asked to work a 16 hour shift with zero breaks entirely legally. Most employers do have break policies but it is not law.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    All 50 states though require you are compensated for your work. So if this is a non-salary position still illegal if the break period is unpaid.

    Additionally if his work contract garuntees the break period that still has legal standing

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    All 50 states though require you are compensated for your work. So if this is a non-salary position still illegal if the break period is unpaid.

    True, however it isn't said in the photo that they should not clock back in.

    work contract

    Employment contracts are extremely rare or non-existent in the US.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    Employment contracts are extremely rare or non-existent in the US.

    Not at all, very common for salary positions

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  • [–] -3 points 8 months ago* (4 children)

    I work salary and in my industry I've never heard of it. I'm sure they exist but I cannot imagine why any company would do it.

    Maybe at executive levels?

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Perhaps you are thinking of contract in too grand a scale, any basic employment agreement stating your hours and company rules is a contract.

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  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago

    Yeah but those are basically useless as they all contain the boilerplate that basically says that they can be changed at any time for any reason without notice. They don't bind the employer in any way.

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    [–] 174 points 8 months ago (7 children)

    Hahahaha, I'd be forwarding that straight to Dept of Labor

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  • [–] 24 points 8 months ago* (4 children)

    In my state there is no legal requirement for any break whatsoever for adults -_-

    If they are offered however, 20 minutes or less are required to be paid, and no matter the amount of time, if you are expected to do anything (answer phones, emails, monitor equipment, etc) then that break must be paid. But when and how long you take a break, if at all, is completely up to the company :(

    So if this were in my state, whether this would be allowed or not would be entirely dependent on what company policy on breaks is, and I'm sure they would've written that to benefit themselves

    (Ohio)

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  • [–] 18 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    I thought for sure you were wrong and that Federal law mandated breaks and lunch. But fucking hell, nope. I'm glad don't live in a red state. We have breaks and lunch required by law, and at least a decent minimum wage.4 hours=paid break. 6 hours = paid break and unpaid lunch. 8 hours has 2 paid breaks and lunch. There's some exceptions, like farm work. And if you can't leave your job and have to take a working lunch. But then they have to pay you for it.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    30 minute unpaid (no work legally allowed to be done. if you are still expected to, say, answer calls, then you'd have to be paid for that time) lunch breaks are pretty standard here (I'm in Cincinnati, might be different in other parts of the state)

    but there's absolutely nothing preventing the company from saying "nah you don't get a break today" unless they restrain THEMSELVES in THEIR policy that THEY write

    (Except minors, they are legally required to have a 30 minute break if they work 5 hours or more)

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  • [–] 161 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    "support your work family"

    RUN AWAY!

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  • [–] 98 points 8 months ago

    "It really doesn't look good for you to take your break during your break time, so please avoid taking breaks during your break."

    -- Someone that clearly hasn't worked in a while

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  • [–] 81 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Cool, so since I only took 20 minutes for lunch, I'll be heading home 40 minutes earlier.

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  • [–] 65 points 8 months ago (19 children)
  • [–] 34 points 8 months ago* (16 children)

    If it is, I think it's illegal in the US at least. By law I think employers are required to give at least one 30 minute break a day.

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago (9 children)

    Only in some states. There is no federal law mandating breaks or meals.

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  • [–] 17 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    This is why I don’t goto Buc-ees when traveling. They only operate in states with little to no worker protection and they do not allow their employees to have any breaks. Yes they pay a few dollars more per hour but absolute abuse their employees. So as nice as their mega gas stations are , they will never get another dollar from me.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago

    The buc-ee's simping is so weird to me. It's just a gas station with a gift shop. Like, I get it, it's got nice bathrooms, nobody is disagreeing, but so many road trips with big groups somebody wants to go there and spend like 30 minutes shopping. I hate it.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    Quite surprising that it's based on state law, rather than something that's mandated by the US Federal government. Employers being able to forbid their employees from having lunch unless their particular state, or medical requirements force their hand does not seem like a legal thing.

    It does track, since the US was also one of the few countries that does not consider food to be a mandatory right (their official justification here), but still.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago

    I don't find it surprising at all.

    The whole idea of breaks during the work day came from early-day capitalists (check out Factory Act and how it came to be. And for those who don't want to/can't - it wasn't from the goodness of their hearts, they noticed that their workers were making too many costly mistakes, like getting themselves rolled into heavy machinery and dying, so they asked doctors to "figure this shit out". The Factory Act is the earliest iteration of what eventually became OSHA), some of whom showed at least a semblance of honour, and following the actual tenets of capitalism (giving back to the community).

    It became the "everybody knows this" kind of thing.

    Then times have changed. Today's capitalists are a bunch of babies with way too much power, who don't know how they came to be, or why the "gentleman rules" that were in place happened. All they see is that if someone takes a 30 minute break, they're not working for 30 minuts (making shareholders cry! :( ).

    The federal government didn't need to mandate this, because "everybody did this anyway", and if one state was having issues, it mandated that on their own.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    There isn't a state where there is no mandatory unpaid meal break.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Yes, all states mandate meal breaks except Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming (source)

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    “Illegal” who enforces that lol. You complain to get fired unless you have a legal team ready to go against a corrupt corporation. I’ve watched companies break all kinds of laws my entire life and it’s about to get a whole lot worse.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Like everything, it depends on how influential the company is.

    I reported a restaurant job for wage theft, and when I was terminated, got a nice paycheck from the local government a few months later.

    Major telecom company that rhymes with Bomcast as customer service. I had a manager demand that work means "when you're at your desk", so lunch, walking to your desk, bathroom breaks, aren't supposed to be tracked as work. People we're eating at their desk and working just to meet the definition.

    Lawsuit went nowhere.

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  • [–] 61 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    We had an HR person complaining to us that a group of us would leave the office every day and go out together to eat lunch.

    Didn't complain that we spent too long eating. Just that we went out together for lunch every day....

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  • [–] 55 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    corporate speak is revolting.

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  • [–] 52 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    This is too rage-inducing to be real ... Right?

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  • [–] 22 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    This specific email from Brenda is most likely a fictional version of something that does actually happen fairly regularly. There are laws in many countries and even in some US states mandating breaks because of companies or leadership or HR encouraging them to never stop working.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    The issue isn't the 'never stop working' part, that sucks but isn't illegal. It's the 'stop paying but don't stop working' part that's a problem.

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  • [–] 49 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Sure thing, Brenda! I'll be sure to invite my work family to lunch with me for the full allotted time so no one feels unsupported! Thank you for the idea!

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  • [–] 48 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Time to take 30 minutes to eat your sandwich.

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  • [–] 39 points 8 months ago

    One of the best bosses I ever had was a Korean man who was very religious and yet very kind. He made a similar comment to me once. I was on my lunch break and he came to me to talk about work stuff, I was watching the clock and when my lunch break was up I went to punch in. When I sat back down he commented about how it looked like I was only there for the money.

    It was a good job but I don't feel comfortable speaking other than the truth even for niceties so I leveled with him.

    "This is a good job, and I am here for the money. I do respect you and I respect your time but I have bills to pay and I have already been warned about going over 40hrs on the time clock to complete rush cases on Fridays. If we are going to be a team and we're going to work together then you need to understand that I share a two bedroom apartment with three people and none of us can afford a car. You came to me on my lunch break to talk about CNC equipment and I was about to run out of time on my lunch break so I clocked back in. This is a work conversation so I don't feel out of line and doing that. Is this not a work conversation?"

    He was a little shocked but respected it. It opened up a line of dialogue and a relationship that I felt was quite meaningful. In the following years he and I had a lot of awesome conversations. I miss that dude. I stayed with the company until just after they fired him and then the company went to shit.

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  • [–] 37 points 8 months ago

    Hi Brenda,

    While you were watching me and writing me memos, you could have been making sales.

    Don't ever put pettiness over money, keep yourself focused on your work instead of your coworkers.

    Warmest Regards,

    Harambe

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  • [–] 36 points 8 months ago*

    Hi Brenda!

    Thank you for your enthusiasm in squeezing my tight knit work family, even tighter ❤️

    I will be saving this email for my wrongful termination lawsuit 🤤

    Let's keep things going in the right direction, and follow the law 🤣

    Mental

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  • [–] 36 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    If that had happened in Germany, Brenda would have provably committed an administrative offence and should stop unless they want to go to jail:

    § 4 Rest breaks

    Work shall be interrupted by predetermined rest breaks of at least 30 minutes for working hours of more than six to nine hours and 45 minutes for working hours of more than nine hours in total. The rest breaks referred to in sentence 1 may be divided into periods of at least 15 minutes each. Employees may not be employed for more than six consecutive hours without a rest break.

    § 22 Penalty provisions

    (1) An employer commits an administrative offence if they intentionally or negligently

    1. contrary to § 4, do not grant rest breaks, do not grant them for the prescribed minimum duration or do not grant them in a timely manner

    (2) In the cases referred to in paragraph 1, nos. 1 to 7, 9 and 10, the administrative offence may be punished with a fine of up to thirty thousand euros [...].

    § 23 Penal provisions

    (1) Any person who commits one of the acts specified in Section 22(1) Nos. 1 to 3, 5 to 7

    1. intentionally and thereby endangers the health or working capacity of an employee, or
    2. persistently repeats, shall be punished with imprisonment for up to one year or a fine.
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  • [–] 35 points 8 months ago

    Yeah, no, I've been there.

    I started a new job. It was kind of a dream job. Great for my career, 40% pay increase, opportunities to grow my skillset in ways my old job couldn't offer.

    Everything was going great until one day a coworker who was supposed to be in like a mentor position for me asked me to do something. I was on my phone at the time, texting with my wife about my three week old son who was sick with RSV. I heard her request and told her I'd get to it right away.

    A few days later my boss called me into a meeting and said that he'd been hearing reports that I was on my phone all the time instead of working, and that the quality of my work was bad. I asked what he meant about my work, if he could give me specific examples, and he threatened to fire me for not taking this seriously. Because trying to understand how I can improve isn't taking it seriously somehow?

    So I buckled down. I put my phone down every second that I was at my desk. I asked everyone --everyone-- I'd worked with up to that point about the quality of my work, where I could improve, if I'd done anything wrong. Just as I'd already been told, my work was great. I was learning quickly and performing well.

    Then I got called into another meeting. Apparently I was still on my phone too much. I must be addicted to it. I was on it while walking down the hall, and he'd even heard that I was leaving my desk to go to my car and play on my phone. And of course I was on it in the breakroom as well. I explained that I thought checking my phone while walking down the hallway was ok because it wouldn't interrupt my work, and I went to my car because it was a confidential telemedicine call with my doctor.

    So I buckled down even more. I rarely used my phone anymore, took shorter lunch breaks, and kept doing my work. I moved to a different part of the parking lot when I had my telemedicine calls.

    I had two more meetings with my boss. The first one, he told me that my work had greatly improved (it hadn't), and now I was doing great. The next day I asked him into a meeting and told him I quit.

    I took a small pay cut and got a new job working from home. It's not as good for my career. It may screw me over in a few years. But my work/life balance is excellent. I get to see my kids and my cats, and there are no spiteful coworkers looking over my shoulder.

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  • [–] 34 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Time to go to my car for my lunch break

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