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Two former senior ICE officials told Newsweek that accidental discharges were not uncommon and often involved experienced agents rather than new hires.
What?
There's no such thing as an accidental discharge. There are negligent discharges and there are mechanical disasters. If it's not one of those then you intended for the gun to fire.
Negligent Discharge vs Uncommanded Discharge.
Negligent Discharge is where somebody carelessly caused the weapon to fire essentially via poorly handling it / being a dumbass.
Uncommanded Discharge is where the weapon essentially fires itself due to a mechanical failure or design flaw inherent to the weapon itself, such as a pistol firing on its own after being dropped and hitting the ground, despite the trigger not actually being pulled.
You can also get a 'hangfire'.
Basically, old or defective ammo can result in a situation where you pull the trigger, the hammer/striker drops... and then nothing happens for 5, 10, 15 seconds... and then the weapon fires.
Hangfires are extremely dangerous because yes, you did intend for the weapon to fire, but you also expected it to fire when you pulled the trigger, not... a random and unknowable amount of time after you pulled the trigger.
Though I guess you could get a hangfire that is initiated by an uncommanded discharge, if your Luck stat is somehow negative.
I'll agree that negligence does not equate to accident, my young child and I have been working on that lesson for years. But intent is a bit of a stretch. If it was actual intent, I'd be overjoyed. This is more of a dumpster fire just doing what it does.
You misunderstood what I'm saying. I'm saying this was a negligent discharge. It wasn't an accidental discharge since those don't exist. And it wasn't an intended discharge. And it wasn't a mechanical failure by the manufacturer or designer of the gun. The only other option is negligent discharge.
Read about this years ago. This is the only accidental discharge I've heard about. Worn leather holster pulls the trigger. In fairness, an argument can be made that using a worn/flexible holster was negligence.
I like the documentation in that article.
The photo they show of the holster makes it very clear that this is negligence, though. there's simply no question about that. as a gun owner you are expected to be smart enough to realize that your holster must not deform in this manner, especially with that model of gun
also, personal note: fuck that guy for wearing this into a cafe
In fairness, an argument can be made that using a worn/flexible holster was negligence
That is the correct argument. This isn't an accident, this is pure negligence.
Coming from a multigenerational family of LE and Military I can tell you first hand that NDs are never common. Not even slightly.
LE and ND?
Not everyone lives in the acronym country.
LE - Law Enforcement, ND - Negligent Discharge
LE = lawful evil
Lemmy has TMA*.
*Too many acronyms
Depends who you talk to. I know a guy in construction who has had to patch bullet holes in several LEO houses. Also at the sport men's club I'm a member of, the only shooting injury we've had was from a state trooper during a training excercise. You're point is valid, though. NDs are supposed to be minimalized through training and adherence to the 4 gun rules. These guys are morons.
It's dangerous.
Don't touch that.
Not that way.
What an I missing? Is the fourth also the first?
- Keep your finger off the boom trigger until your ready to fire.
- know your target and what’s behind it.
- assume the gun is always loaded, even when you know it isn’t.
- never point it at something you aren’t willing to completely and utterly destroy.
Those guys are just typical gun owners. US has 44,000 accidental gun injuries a year, likely 5X more accidental discharges no one knows about.
Reminds me of ‘Being a cop isn't that dangerous’.
"ND"? I can get as far as N-somthing Discharge.
Negligent
Ah, derp. TY. That seems really obvious in hindsight.
"TY"? I can get as far as T-somthing Yaoi.
I know very few Leo’s or vets, like only a couple. But one that I do know NDed himself in the thigh while servicing his gun.
So you 0/N is somewhat offset by my 1/4.
Servicing a gun with a round in the chamber is negligent unless you’re in active combat.
There’s no context provided, but I can’t see any situation where you service a loaded firearm and point it at your thigh.
Are you saying he was cleaning a loaded gun? Or am I misunderstanding?
I wouldn't be surprised if 'experienced' agents are generally also incompetent. Pre-trump they would have mostly had pretty mundane duties, maybe manning a border station checking paperwork, maybe even desk jockeys. Sure "enforcement" actions were a thing, but I suspect a large number of people were never anywhere close to 'action'.
A reporter that went through the hiring process included the detail that while desk work was a possibility that a recruit had to be prepared for, it was a critical priority to get as many people on the streets with guns.
Finally, some good fucking news.
Until they start blaming protesters for it. Like Israel when their occupying forces run over their own unexploded ordnance and they blame it on hamas.
Felony murder is used like that all the time, for any death that they say results or was influenced by your lawbreaking. Like if I asked you for a ride to the store, then went in the store and shot someone, jumped in your car and went home. Even if you didn't know you are vulnerable, and we all know how prosecutors and police lie.
What is it, a 15 or 20 year felony, often tacked onto a list of other crimes. But if for a police that shot himself chasing you or something they might even bring more extreme charges. Like I've heard of real world cases of people spitting on police that were charged with attempted murder, theory being they were trying to give them terminal diseases, but the alleged spitter didn't have any disease, they just charged that as a reaction.
Spitting on someone is bullshit, but what about when you are talking, sometimes a little bit of spit will fly out of your mouth and land on someone, it happens to everyone occasionally.
Remember in 8 Mile when Cheddar Bob shot himself in the leg with his own gun? Same thing. The only difference here is Cheddar Bob was a lovable idiot instead of a fascist.
Well good. It's about time they shoot someone who deserves it.
Since they cant handle firearms safely then they shouldnt be permitted to have any.
That is a most un-American thing to say.
As a gun owner, I approve.
Unless they only use it to shoot themselves / each other.
whoa there....Americans not in death squads shoot each other or themselves accidently over 44,000 times a year.
The right to be idiots is in the constitatuition.

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