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[–] 79 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Its really bothering me that 2.1% was listed above 2.2% at the suicide covid bars.

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  • [–] 34 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    "Joe Boomer, 85, chronic smoker and alcoholic, dies of heart attack, none of his family were surprised." is not exactly an intresting article to read lol.

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  • [–] 33 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    Heart disease, cancer, etc are part of the plan. Both boring and too close to home. Terrorism and homicide are suitably scary, morally charged, and far enough removed from most people's lives to be mostly abstract fears.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    Heart disease, cancer, etc are part of the plan.

    exactly. they can't exactly have you all worried about the byproducts of their industries. Worry about that guy who's different, don't care about the planet we're burning

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  • [–] 32 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Fear mongering and sensatislism vs educational and beneficial programming.

    How we are taught to stop terrorism and homicides, give more power to police and authority figures.

    How one actually stops terrorism and homicides, better educate people and provide them with higher quality social and health services. Which ironically result in more preventative care and less deaths from the treatable diseases that are underreported.

    Eat this, not that.

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  • [–] 12 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Another way to look at something is newsworthiness. If it's something that's super common, it isn't remarkable enough to make the news.

    I don't want to live in a world where terrorism is so common it isn't even worth talking about on the news.

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  • [–] 26 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I wonder how the comparison would look if you compared years lost per type of death?

    That is, old people die of heart disease and cancer. Young people die of accidents and violence.

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  • [–] 23 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I'm assuming that 40 of the 42% of homicide coverage was that one CEO.

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  • [–] 33 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Dog bites man is not news. Man bites dog is news.

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago

    In other news: The obese Tom from next door got a heart attack and died. The 84-year-old grandma from across the street is still in hospital, and the cancer is getting worse. Stay tuned to find out if she is still alive tomorrow.

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    At first sight it seems to me that the coverage being positivelly correlated with how unusual a death is and the number of people dying in a single event, would explain that graph.

    I bet if we dig into the details of the Accidents class we would see a pattern were uncommon kinds of accidents and/or those with a large number of deaths ("man killed by falling crane", "plane crash") get lots of coverage whilst common kinds of accidents with few victims per event ("a car crash involving a single car") get a lot less coverage.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    I don't understand how anyone is surprised by this. "Man has heart attack" is hardly interesting or news. "Gorilla escapes zoo and kills child" is obviously newsworthy. It has nothing to do with the frequency of an event. In fact, it's probably inversely proportional because people don't need to be told what they already know.

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  • [+] 38 points 8 months ago (19 children)
  • [–] 29 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Not an american but i would think that not many rich people actually get murdered, unfortunately. Private security and someone wealthy is generally more valuable alive than dead if you are looking for ransom or such.

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago*

    That reminds me, there's this anti-capitalist, anti-war children's film by Satyajit Ray called Goopy Gyne Bagha Byne. In it, there's a song that says that the king is sad and afraid since he has so much money. He tries to cope by punishing others, but it never makes him happy. The only solution offered was to let go of all his riches, and that finally made him happy.

    It was for children, so I understand why sadness was used instead of fear. But they do need to be afraid.

    As an aside, I think that movie had a decent impact in the communist revolution that happened in my state in the 70-80s. Ray has made some of the greatest movies in the history of cinema, but his children's films still hold a dear place in the hearts of many generations of Bengalis.

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  • [+] -4 points 8 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] [S] 0 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Fuck yes. Kill the rich.

    What piece of shit wouldn't?

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  • [+] -2 points 8 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] [S] 2 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Because we're at war?

    If we had the means to remove all their wealth and stop them from ever amassing any again sure there's no need for the death penalty at that point. But we're not there, we're in the frontlines of a class war where it's us vs them.

    If you're really rich (I doubt it) you could give up your excess wealth and live a comfortable life with what you have remaining.

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  • [+] -1 points 8 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] [S] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)
  • [+] -2 points 8 months ago (2 children)
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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    Those would be very interesting graphs to see. There is definitely a massive difference between the graph for rich and poor. One window into that is the difference in longevity between the rich and poor. The rich have a ~90 year lifespan.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago*

    Poor people get sick faster, generally speaking and in the West. It's the same diseases, though.

    In the third world, tropical diseases, diseases of poor sanitation and infant mortality are disproportionately huge killers. On the other hand, if you're talking about a rainforest tribe, they might be in top shape until they're ancient, because once they survive childhood they're basically living the lifestyle humans were designed for.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago* (5 children)

    Considering that the top reasons for death in the US are related to, more or less, how well you treat your body - as in exercise, diet - there will absolutely be data on poorer people being affected more. If you don't have enough money for a good diet or sports, naturally your body's health will suffer as a result.

    Alzheimer and cancer, depending on the cancer, maybe not so much.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    i agree different cancers have different statistics, but the most common cancer would be skin cancer, BCC , 2nd would be SCC and then melanoma.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

    This is a big assumption and from what I have researched up to 60% of heart disease is caused by genetics. Environmental pollution and genes play a huge role in both heart attacks and stroke. With dramatic example like:

    "In England and Wales, the mortality rate for coronary heart disease (CHD) between 1981 and 2000 have decreased by 62% in men and 45% in women, and more than half of this decline was attributed to a reduction in environmental risk factors."

    "This is most strikingly demonstrated by data from China, which show that the age-adjusted CVD mortality rates in Beijing increased by 50% for men and 27% for women because of environmental changes between 1984 and 1999"

    I am sure diet and exercise is helpful in preventing heart disease, but it is clear trying to push all responsibility of this disease onto lifestyle choice is highly inaccurate.

    You bring up poor being poor as a risk factor. While this may not be true, what is true is poor people's mortality is much higher. See below.

    "For example, high-income Asia Pacific and central Latin America have similar age-standardised prevalence of ischemic heart disease (about 2600 cases per 100,000), but the mortality rate due to ischemic heart disease in central Latin America is four times that in high-income Asia Pacific (109 vs 26 per 100,000, respectively). "

    So same prevalence, but a huge difference in mortality.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    Thanks for the figures. 60% is crazy tho. Sure, genetics are bound to be involved in some way, but I would have assumed that especially anything related to your heart's function is bound to be linked to your "lifestyle choices" and not as much to your gene pool

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    That appeared to be the highest amount in literature I found. So it is definitely the high end.

    I learned that the environment played a large role in cancer awhile ago, but the heart disease challenge my perception as well. While it does not appear to be the dominate factor, it is definitely a significant one.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Isn't this normal for news? The whole dog bites man, man bites dog thing?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Yeah, the Big question is: does the skewed coverage actually cause people to skew in their beliefs? I.e. would the average American think they are more likely to die from homicide than cancer or heart disease? I doubt they do.

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  • [–] 19 points 8 months ago (6 children)

    On the left: shit happens

    On the right: humans are doing stupid shit

    I think the OP is trying to express that the New York times is distorting the news. Perhaps true, but humans doing stupid shit will always sell a newspaper.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, I also don't think writing an article every time someone dies from cancer or a heart attack would benefit anyone.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I feel like hearing more kids dying with ass cancer stories and heart disease deaths and people dying from preventable diseases stories would probably shift people away from focusing just on guns and homicide and maybe actually cause people to care about science and solving those other things.

    Not that those are good to not focus on, just that there's already an ongoing anti vs pro gun conversation going and at least if we talk about something else that's proportional causing deaths... well, I doubt there are many "pro-cancer" people out there (but I know it's non-zero).

    I guess I just want some positive momentum on something at this point.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    If every single one of the estimated 10,000 deaths per year due to the polution from diesel vehicles in Europe was individually reported in the Press, we would have far stronger legislation against that kind of polution and the heads of the companies involved in the Diesel Scandal would be rotting in jail rather than some scapegoat engineer.

    (I'm using an European example because that's the data for deaths I remember, but I bet it's the same or worse in the US).

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    It’d be neat to see some other news outlets as well. I’m sure there’s a massive difference.

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    I doubt it.

    NGL.. let's be real here.

    Your average New York Joe Blowhole who's 67, obese, diabetic and smoked since he was 15 isn't going to be as newsworthy a story as a murder is, the day he drops dead of a heart attack in his living room.

    Outside of the obit a family member puts in the paper, why would the newspapers report on such an everyday death?

    Natural causes of death, are ho-hum.

    The newspapers report on the things that aren't the run-of-the-mill, occurrences.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    True, but/and let’s consider something like a more conservative outlet (relative to NYT) in 2023. Who’s president? What issues are getting talked up pre-election? I’m guessing we’ll see something like drugs and homicide taking a massive chunk of the news relative to what the NYT reported. Even regional news will differ — ever turn on the daytime news in Las Vegas? It’s all car chases and interviews with shooting witnesses. You’d think nothing else happened in the world. Just an interesting experiment.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    Oh Yeah, to that, definitely. I always get a chuckle out of the Fox TV stations across the country that will have local horror stories.. Sometimes absolutely lurid in detail.

    The reporting vogue seems to be Families Gone Bad in the Upper Midwest..

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago*

    It used to be terrorism all the time, have they replaced that with simple homicide now? Definently needs a new war then!

    Going to Iran to defend America from terrorism again this weekend according to rumours.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    Fucking great visual.

    Would be interesting to see it in a stacked bar graph with actual va. represented side by side to give scale to the disproportionism.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    On the one hand, I get this, what's unexpected is more interesting and newsworthy, but at the same time I do see how it creates problems. Airplane travel is much safer than cars, but people feel unsafe in planes. Part of it is because you aren't personally in control, sure, but a lot of it is definitely the availability hueristic*. Especially following things like the September 11th attacks and Malaysian Airlines planes going missing.

    But a major issue with it is that it leads to us viewing things like car accidents (and heart disease and cancer) as inevitable and a mere fact of life we can't do anything about. Meanwhile whenever there is an airplane crash it's very thoroughly investigated and will likely lead to changes in regulations.

    *: I may be getting the name wrong.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    politics equals more views on MSM, and newspapers. homicides/terrorism is part of that, so is drugs. just like how they dont really report on climate change, or disease.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    I have a really hard time with drug overdose being it's own thing. That sounds a lot like ignoring the large number of intentional overdoses that happen.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Why is COVID (2.2%) below Suicide (2.1%) on the graph on the left? Everything else is in decending order of occurance

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  • [+] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)
  • What gets our attention are mostly causes that we feel we have power over and that look spectacular.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago

    And now let's see how much outside of the "homicide" and "terrorism" on the right bar are celebrities!

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Yesterday I witnessed a motorcycle rear end an SUV in person. I hope the guy did not die but it looked pretty bad when it randomly happened.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    It's weird how the NYT laments preventable deaths.

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  • Where's the rest of the infographic?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    1% homicide is still 3.4 million people.

    Natural causes will never be news, except when a major medical breakthrough occurs. It's simply not interesting to the population.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (5 children)

    I've had various family members die from all of the most common things in the top 2/3 of the causes of death. It sucks. But I wouldn't want there to be a story about it in the NY Times about it... because why would they do that?

    They're journalists not doctors, treating heart disease and cancer isn't their jobs and it's not all that interesting to write about.

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  • [–] [S] 17 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    If they reported on heart disease as much as terrorism and homicide you might have things like properly funded healthcare and high quality food regulations, instead you get militarised police.

    What the public perceives as a danger is more important than what flashy thing sells.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

    In all fairness, the unusual sells a lot better than the usual as news, so it makes sense that newsmedia goes for the former rather than the latter - any newspaper that reports based on prevalence and ignores the shock-effect of an event simply doesn't get read and goes bankrupt.

    So in this specifically, as I see it the problem isn't that the newsmedia choses to report the unusual but that very few people have been taught to beware of one's natural falacy of confusing exposure (how much something is talked about) with actual impact - you can very visibly see it in how people react to governments implementing authoritarian anti-Terrorism measures, were the people who confuse exposure with impact actually support very authoritarian measures to supposedly combat Terrorism whilst the people who do not and instead actual check what's the impact of it tend to be against authoritarian measures because they trade a lot of everybody's Freedom for supposedly combating something which in most countries is has a lower death rate than slipping on a bathtub.

    As I see it, were the press fails to uphold Journalistic Integrity is in refraining from reporting on certain unusuals, for example political corruption and certain actions of the ultra-wealthy (whilst choosing to report on other actions of them - see: celebrity culture).

    IMHO the dynamic we see in this graphic which is really about impactful vs newsworth is pretty natural, what's not natural is the selectivity in reporting of different but equally newsworthy events.

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  • [–] -4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Having family members die of these things doesn't make people aware heart disease exist? It's only if it's reported in the New York Times reports on it that makes people aware of things?

    And no it's not all that flashy when my grandfather dies of a heart attack at the age of 87. That's part of your stats on the common causes of death, right? It's sad for those that knew him, but do you expect a story about an octogenarian dying of a heart attack to make the front page of the NY Times? What would that accomplish more than an obituary stating people should give to a charity in lieu of flowers? Maybe with some more funding to medical research my grandfather could've lived to 88 or 89! But the damn NY Times decided it was more important to report on someone dying in the prime of their life instead of elderly people dying. Those insensitive bastards!

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Not everyone has the privilege of their family members making it to their 80s or later. Heart disease, diabetes, cancer. I've had family members die in their 40s, 50s, 60s, but almost never later than 70s.

    Why does it matter if journalists report on this stuff more? Because a crazy amount of people are dying from these top causes, and they are not just "shit that happens." They have causes, and they are preventable.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Yeah, so have you dug into the stats to find out the percentage of those people that are dying from heart disease that are over 70?

    Also what is considered an article about terrorism? If the NYT mentions 9/11 in one sentence in an article does that become an article about people dying of terrorism?

    The methodology of gathering and compiling data in statistics is relevant, and that's before we get into analysis.

    As Mark Twain said, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." This graph is likely way more biased than the implied accusation of bias leveled on the NYT could ever be.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    What about shootings? I don't believe that shootings doesn't make this chart for a second.

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