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[–] 69 points 8 months ago* (4 children)

Move Godot to codeberg. Github is too popular. It's where all the fool kids go and link their LinkedIn to. It's Microslop all the way down. It's highly likely the number of real contributors will be higher on Codeberg than Github.

Also, doesn't github have a viebcoding platform built into it making it really easy to create AI slop?

Edit: yep they do! Get the fuck off of github!

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  • [–] 26 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Godot is also weighing the possibility of moving the project to another platform where there might be less incentive for users to "farm" legitimacy as a software developer with AI-generated code contributions. But moving to a less popular platform could run the risk of alienating legitimate contributors.

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  • [–] 20 points 8 months ago

    The article does indeed continue 😮 There are so many full page interruptions,I thought the end had been reached.

    Good to know that they are considering moving away from Microslop. It's about damn time. As the article insinuates, there is little hope of Microslop turning down the dial on AI. They will create AI problems and sell AI solutions for those problems.

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  • [+] 32 points 8 months ago (16 children)
  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    I don't think anyone using AI for this has good intentions. They are trying to increase their own "reputation" without putting in the work. If they are in the field they should know that someone has to review this. If they can't be bothered to do that then they know they are making someone else do this unpaid labor without having even checked it first. If they are not in the field then they think spending money on their own pet project is the best way to support instead of giving money directly to the team doing the actual work. If the team wanted to use that money on AI they could then do so themselves. It's a self interested thing either way.

    Most of the people using AI to contribute are probably like the guy who got so upset his pet AI wasn't allowed to contribute he likely promoted it to write a hit piece on the person who rejected it. Just narcissistic people who wish they were better than they are and wasting time and resources hoping to feel better about themselves and their contributions.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (13 children)

    I think intentions are a spook created by the bourgeois to control us, and I wrote an article on My blog about it https://medium.com/@viridiangrail/8-deeper-levels-to-understand-accidents-and-intentions-308c7dc9b742

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  • [+] 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (5 children)
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    In the spirit of level 7: I use capitalised pronouns in all three grammatical persons

    I don't think the Bourgeois created intentionalism, but I do think they're responsible for its prevalence in our modern society. The degree to which most people are concerned with intentions is so stifling, unhealthy, and unsustainable that I do not believe it can be natural. We live in an age of relatively little social upheaval. There are fewer revolutions and wars than usual right now, and that's not entirely a good thing. Look at the USA - they are in desperate need of a civil war, or we shall soon be fighting world war 3. Yet the people are far more passive than we would expect from history. Nonviolent resistance is also down, so it's not just military technology. It's propaganda.

    I think intentionalism is a meme - an idea that through natural selection has taken on a life of its own. And because it helps the Bourgeoisie, they, perhaps unconsciously, create conditions that favour it in their media empires.

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  • [+] 4 points 8 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    You know, I don't think the "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" thing is true anymore. It made sense back in the 70s when the USA had what the capitalists call a middle class, but that group is getting smaller and smaller. Wealth inequality is higher than it's ever been in history, according to some measures. Maybe I'm just not in touch with the youth anymore, but everyone I know treats "Sigma male grindset" as a joke and knows our generation is never buying houses.

    Then again I've lived in a homeless shelter and surround Myself with antirealists, so what do I know about the consciousness of white suburbia?

    "you" as the pronoun for hypothetical people is perfectly amenable to Me. However I know other capitalised pronoun users, and the risk of misunderstandings and the annoyance of clarification has lead Me to use "one" as the hypothetical pronoun instead in most cases, and thus I recommend it to make your life easier as well.

    I confess I don't fully understand how increased assumptiveness should lead to an increased value placed on intentions as excuses for wrongdoing.

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  • [+] 4 points 8 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    Ah, so it's a decline in skepticism leading to increased trust in scammers' stated intentions.

    Well, even if we think we know another's intentions, that doesn't mean we value them. I think everyone has good intentions, but I don't base My actions on those intentions. I think even if assumptiveness is prevalent, intentionalism still must be high as well to explain the society we currently live in.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    There's a lot wrong about this post.

    First off, you take great pains to establish and reinforce the assertion that evil doesn't exist, but is rather a construct created from ignorance. But then at the end you assert that ignorance is being spread by the bourgeois in an evil plot. You're just following circular logic by this point.

    Second, the assertion that all evil stems from ignorance of the harm of others is concerningly naïve. Many rapists don't have trouble understanding what their victims experience. Quite the opposite - rape and abuse is often about taking power over others, and the knowledge of marking their victims so throroughly that they're traumatized drives that.

    Third, sociopaths exist. Sociopathy is a recognized mental condition with one of the defining characteristics being the inability to experience empathy. It doesn't matter how long you spend teaching a sociopath about how much harm they might do, because they can't care.

    You were going in a good direction in the first half of the blog post, and I don't necessarily disagree with your point that the ruling class wants to keep everyone else pacified. But the route you take to try to connect those two points just simply doesn't work. The unfortunate truth of the world is that some people are just evil. I recommend you take some time to think on your philosophy more, because trying to insist that evil doesn't exist potentially opens you up to becoming a victim in the future.

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  • [–] 0 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    trying to insist that evil doesn’t exist potentially opens you up to becoming a victim in the future.

    No, it doesn't. I have battled with some vile abusers who did horrible things. I deplatformed a pedophile by releasing leaked screenshots that showed the individual online dating children. Azsula believed that Azsula's actions were ethically okay because consent doesn't exist. I organised a campaign to contact everyone on Azsula's discord server and send them the article with the screenshots. I told people to leave, and not give their time or presence to abusers, and over 1/3 of them did, leading Azsula to shut down the discord server and retreat from public life. I did so in the full knowledge that Azsula's intentions were not malicious, that Azsula didn't mean any harm. The reason why I was able to do so is that I think ignorance of the consequences of one's actions is itself a form of violence which must be dealt with.

    And I don't agree that sociopathy is a recognised mental condition. It doesn't have a DSM entry. What it does have is a note in the ASPD section saying that sociopathy is sometimes used as a slang term for ASPD. ASPD is a recognised mental condition, sociopathy is not. And I have met people with ASPD who had managed to learn a little of the skill of empathy. It was hard for them to do, but not impossible.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    So you deplatformed a single pedo who claimed it was from ignorance, after you destroyed their audience? I don't buy their story.

    And I have met people with ASPD who had managed to learn a little of the skill of empathy. It was hard for them to do, but not impossible.

    They can understand it intellectually, but they don't feel the same feelings. There's a trait in autism called "masking" where you just learn to emulate what non-neurodivergent people do.

    Also note that I never claimed that sociopaths are guaranteed to be terrible people or even vice versa. Just that they are an example of people that are unable to feel empathy. A couple of people with Anti-Social Personality Disorder learning to mask doesn't change tgeir condition.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    No, the pedo claimed that consent doesn't exist before I destroyed the pedo's audience. I got My hands on a year's worth of private chatlogs and searched them extensively to find the most incriminating screenshots to prove beyond any doubt that Azsula was dating those kids. So I got a pretty thorough understanding of the nature of the relationship and how they justified it to themselves. They were anti-ageist political radicals, who considered age of consent laws to be ageist. The pedo has an adult body but identifies as a child internally. So that's why it feels justified to Azsula internally. Doesn't feel justified to Me, though.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (2 children)

    rooted in a fundamental belief that everyone wants to be good at heart

    What about if antisocial personality disorder is mostly genetic? Couldn’t some of the behaviors be defined as intentional? It’s still not that person’s fault of course. How does that fit into your theory?

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    ASPD comes with reduced empathy, and thus reduced ability to visualise and anticipate the harm caused by one's actions. I think people with ASPD mean well in terms of seeking to bring joy to all those they remember are capable of experiencing it. They just forget sometimes that other people exist.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Hmm, maybe, I don’t really know. I think my uncertainty is in understanding if we have various genetically driven behaviors like so many other animals. Many of us (animals) kill and do many harmful (malicious) things to each other for survival and reproduction. We may not see it as malicious when other animals do it, because it’s “natural.” We seem to pretend that we aren’t part of nature. Some traits like ASPD do seem to greatly aid in the survival game.

    Do you believe that there are many behaviors of animals that genetically predetermined?

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  • [–] 27 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    I honestly do not understand why anyone would ever for any reason submit AI-generated code to any FOSS project.

    What's the motivation behind that kind of behavior? What do people get out of it?

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  • [–] 19 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    makes a little green box on their github activity chart that they can show to a potential employer

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago

    It's so upsetting to me that tech workers are expected to live and breathe coding. You're responsible for upskilling on your own time and being up to date on a whole host of someone's pet interests that have nothing to actually do with your job. I think it really contributes to the escape to do woodworking trope. It's not GitHub's fault, but I still regret falling for the hype.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    They think the code is good and makes the project better? They want to test/prove their "skills"? Its partnof their day job?

    Basically the same reason anyone contributes, just they got sold a bag of rocks and told how amazing a hammet it is.

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  • [–] 44 points 8 months ago* (5 children)

    They should close PRs to the public and only accept then from contributors who apply to be vetted.

    It sucks, but that's really the only good way to prevent spam.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 13 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    AI is quite good at solving captchas; better than many humans. And it doesn't really slow down the sloppers for them to set their machine running, come back in an hour and then solve a puzzle manually to submit it. Couple of minutes of work every day and they can still drown the world in bullshit.

    Something needs to change, but I'm not convinced that would be enough...

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  • [–] 21 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Seems like a natural next step is some kinda reputation system for a project's contributors. If you've written 50 successfully merged PRs, you're certainly less likely to make trash in any method. Create a mentorship heirarchy. It sounds very helpful no matter what. Then the people who have merged 0 PRs to the project will likely work harder too, since they know they will be at the most scrutiny

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Its trivial for ai to successfully merge 50 prs into the projects of other ai.

    It be frustrating for a beginner that every time they try to contribute they are ignored because they have yet to contribute.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Web of trusted peers maybe? Honestly beyond AI not all contributions, no matter how helpful, are equal as a metric. That is to say linus torvolds himself might not be the best guy for contributions for UI changes to Genomic research tool. Clearly VERY reputable on a massive OpenSource project, but not in related work (as far as i know for the stupid example i made up).

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  • [–] 8 points 8 months ago

    This is how they kill open source.

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  • [–] 16 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    I wonder if the influx of slop contributions can be stemmed by a legal document that makes the contributor legally liable for their submission.

    Seems like lawyers have been learning the hard way to be accountable for their slop, perhaps these lessons can be leveraged in the open source community.

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  • [–] 7 points 8 months ago

    Real "these kids would be very upset if they could read" situation. Who bothers to pick through the whole EULA before submitting?

    Like any open source mass contribution project that's gained too much popularity, you need extra firebreaks in between the Open Submission and Final Product.

    That means adding manpower to submission review, QA, etc, which public projects don't often have.

    Sort of the Achilles Heel of the open source community. AI is just making the vulnerability extra glaring.

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    Mitchell Hashimoto is trying to build a reputation system to combat this https://github.com/mitchellh/vouch

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)
  • 25 comments in c/opensource@lemmy.ml view that post
    [–] 44 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    if the bubble ever collapses maybe AI use will cost too much to harass FOSS projects with it.

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  • [–] 87 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    Anyone else suspect commercial game engine are doing this to attack their FOSS (free open source software) competitor?

    Unlike other engines Godot asks nothing of its users. No money, no tie in to their sales platform. It's literally just good free software anyone is invited to try.

    Sad to see it dealing with this. FOSS may be under a kind of intentional AI attack.

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  • [–] 42 points 8 months ago

    yes, exactly my thoughts. what if the AI-slop pull request onslaught is a way of the feudalists to weaken the FOSS community and on the long run make themselves irreplaceable? seems to be happening to a lot of maintainers

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  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago (8 children)

    Really awful website with more ads and shit than content.

    Nevertheless worrysome and indeed food for tough. Ai is here to stay, so we all need to find ways to deal with it, that we like it or not.

    Maybe specialized humans in detect ai slop? Because using ai to detect ai seems kind of hironic.

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (3 children)

    Use ai to make code to detect and block AI. Actually though wish we could force an AI tag tat could just be blocked with UBO

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    But what polices that? And what's to stop humans pasting in the AI code, which may look like human code, just behave poorly or contain hallucinations.

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Write tests and actually do the practice of testing every single line with no regression testing. That will solve the AI problem. Since if it does work, there is no problem. If doest work just remove it. If it does work, who cares if it's AI or not?

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago* (2 children)

    Humans in the loop? Code would have to be read and understood by the human, in relation to the problem being resolved, and the rest of the code base it may or may not interact with... And that's difficult.

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  • [–] -2 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    If ai slip vibe code is so shitty, then it should be pretty easy for humans to detect it and shut down without wasting too much time right?

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago*

    No, it's shitty because it's complicated, looks correct, but actually filled with errors and hallucinations. Including libraries that may not exist, and that leaves code open to injection attacks (where people make fake libraries/dependies based on commonly hallucinated code, then package them with genuine FOSS software which is now playing cover for malware/viruses).

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  • [–] 9 points 8 months ago

    I'm thinking we are going to have to come up with a way to vet contributors before allowing them to contribute code. This will likely reduce the overall contributions of people given we're creating a barrier to entry, but so many of these FOSS projects are just straight getting overwhelmed with this shit. Something needs to change.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago (4 children)

    Can anyone describe the process of code contribution with open-source. It's it like anyone hands in a code.

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  • [–] 10 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    You make a copy of the code ("fork") for yourself, make edits, then request that your changes be accepted into the original project ("pull/merge request"). Someone from the project has to check the edits, make that decision and hit accept or decline.

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  • [–] 11 points 8 months ago (1 child)

    Ideally, you'd also first talk to the developers in charge of the project to see if your changes would be wanted in the first place.

    (Or you'd start by reviewing existing bug reports and feature requests and addressing one of those.)

    What I mean is, it's generally better to not just throw code at them and hope they'll like it. If you check first to see if they want it, you can save yourself from wasting effort on writing code that they'll decline.

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  • [–] 3 points 8 months ago

    I assume when people do that it's because they're going to be making the fork regardless, and they think they're being helpful by submitting a pull request with thier AI slop... But really they should just keep it on thier own fork if they don't understand the changes but want to use it regardless...

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  • [–] 5 points 8 months ago

    generally yeah. the problem is that the barrier to entry used to be higher so fewer people knew how to write code to integrate with the project before coding agents. now anyone who can install Claude Code has a seat at that table

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  • [–] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

    Can they require that all code submissions have a natural language summary of it included?

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  • 4 comments in c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 27 points 8 months ago

    May? They definitely don't. Vibe coders are producing lots of garbage code they can't possibly have reviewed, at breakneck speed.

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  • [–] 16 points 8 months ago
    [–] 6 points 8 months ago

    Butlerian Jihad When?

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  • [+] 2 points 8 months ago* (1 child)
  • [–] 14 points 8 months ago*

    Is this code wrong because it was written by AI, or is it an honest mistake from an inexperienced human contributor?" Verschelde said. "What do you do when you ask a PR author if they used AI because you're suspicious, and they all reply 'yes I used it to write the PR description because I'm bad with English'?"

    Here is one example from the article that might shed some light on the issue with what you are asking about. You don't just "see slop" and shoot it down. You see bad code and you think "I want to help this new enthusiastic contributor join our little community and make this code just a little bit better."

    And then you get slapped in the face with the new reality that it probably isn't worth your time to try to help the newbies learn anymore because the newbies are actually usually actually just robots.

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  • 3 comments in c/programming@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 10 points 8 months ago

    Sad state of afairs. Many awesome projects will get tainted into history.

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  • [–] 6 points 8 months ago* (1 child)

    We combat this with, funny enough, AI code review.

    Much MUCH stricter structural, consistency, quality, and discovery standards on code through rules and docs. Well defined expectations, stricter testing standards...etc Then let some agents loose on PR review and they catch all sorts of problems. Especially with other AI slop.

    Coincidentally, the process of doing all this actually reduces the sloppiness of the slop that we receive, as the AI tools writing this code consume these rules before generating code.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    yeah, I really don't get maintainers that try to put human hours to review PRs that are potentially AI generated. This equation will never balance out. There needs to be a first triaging layer that is automated, only then bring a human in the loop if it's worth continuing.

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  • 2 comments in c/opensource@programming.dev view that post
    [–] 13 points 8 months ago

    Seems like part of the problem is that once they identify AI being involved in a contribution, they're not rejecting it immediately.

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  • [–] 4 points 8 months ago

    So it is a malicious attack?

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