Say a friend is looking for a new system, and said person is not particularly savvy with technology, what system would you point them toward?

Windows, MacOS, or Linux

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[–] 44 points 9 months ago (4 children)

Are we assuming this person has never used any other operating system before?

Because I do think a lot of the perception of Linux being more difficult is just because people who grew up on Windows or MacOS have gotten so used to those that the inertia of trying something new is what's hard about it.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    The person described may have some Windows or Mac experience at school or work, maybe they got an iPhone or Android but never considered getting their own computer.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    I've used Windows all my life (40 now) but the changes made in the last 10 or so years (since win 7 and forward have left me in a place where i feel Im super confused about even the freaking folder structure. Its partly on me becouse I havent kept up, but also, I havent asked for any of the shit they have done "recently". I switched to Kubuntu about a year ago and nothing has been easier. Anyway, My recomendation would be a any linux distro, havent tried mint but from what people are saying it's stable and easy so probably that one, but mostly because my feeling is that most Linux based OSs dont change stuff just for the sake of changing (someone will probably let med know the exceptions to this rule). But really, I think that the normal user dont want but to re-learn how to do something they allready knew how to do in an earlier version if there isnt a very good reason for it.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    If you grew up with Windows, it's intuitive and easy to you. That Doesn't mean it's intuitive for anyone else. Kids are super confused about Windows these days.

    Anyway, I would still recommend Windows because everything is designed to work with it. Normies don't troubleshoot. They just give up and move on. In this regard, you would want something that requires the least amount of troubleshooting. Every OS sucks in this regard, so I just don't have a clear winner here. Windows might still be the least infuriating one though.

    However, if they did troubleshoot, they would probably enjoy Linux. Those error messages actually tell you what's wrong and how to fix it. Meanwhile in Windows, the errors are pretty much useless. You'll end up reading a bunch of forum posts where nobody knows what's causing the problem, let alone how to fix it. The best you'll get is a list of 15 things to try. Just hope that at least one of them works. If you have a problem in Linux, you'll usually find a forum post where someone tells you exactly what's causing it and how to fix it.

    Normies haven't heard of privacy, and they also watch TV ads. Windows will be fine. They just won't see any reason to switch to Linux.

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  • [–] 110 points 9 months ago (10 children)
  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I love mint, have you tried a KDE desktop though?

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  • [+] -8 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Mint is not run by professionals. It has been pwnd more than once. It's pretty, slightly better run than manjaro and has no reason to exist when ubuntu, fedora and suse exist.

    Please stop pointing to mint as a starting place. Every level user is going to get a more secure and reliable experience avoiding mint.

    Ubuntu, fedora, suse and spins of those 3. I wouldn't put a normal user on anything else without extenuating circumstances.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    From what I can find, the Linux Mint website was breached once, in 2016, for a short duration and during that time the download link for the ISO referred to a site that was hosting a version that installed a backdoor.

    Meaning it was short in scope, the dev team reacted to it, handled it, and then were open and transparent about it, and it only affected people who downloaded the ISO at that exact span in time and also installed that version instead of replacing it when the announcement came.

    The harsh reality of IT security isn't that it's a question of if you get hacked, it's a question of when, even for multi-billion dollar companies.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    They got hacked a couple times before that though it may not be widely published. Mint originally existed as an "easier" and prettier unbuntu run by volenteers. They would be extremely unlikely to figure out they had been compromised by an APT. And before you say it, look up the 2016 hack, it wasn't an APT.

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  • [–] 60 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    If they are not savvy enough to do troubleshooting themselves or have no one to ask for help, I think macOS would be the best (assuming money isn’t an issue). Otherwise, Linux Mint.

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  • [+] -45 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    There's a rule you should learn. Never ever recommend Apple shit to people.

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  • [–] 26 points 9 months ago

    I generally wouldn't, but I do have a iPhone for work and got a good price on a M2 a couple of years ago.

    The hardware is better than most laptops and the battery life way out preforms my work Win11 Dell of the same age

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Fedora, now it's shockingly easy to use.

    I silently replaced windows in the home PC and it took 2 months for the tech illiterate SO to say "WTF, why you put Apple on this PC, I thought you hated them" (put same username/password, same wallpaper, even Microsoft Edge)

    At work I was shocked that I could login directly as user@windows.domain without any extra configuration. Plain vanilla fresh install, typed my active directory account for laughs, it worked 😲

    Also at work I was shocked to see that I could just run the exe of the windows-only accounting software and everything works. I even installed LibreOffice in wine, lol (the accounting software needs soffice.exe for generating spreadsheets). I could even install foxit reader for windows 😂 (sorry, all the Linux PDF readers completely suck when printing, I need previews and booklet and all the extra features)

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Wait a damn second, Fedora sometimes can allow you to just run a windows exe program by default???

    How does it compare to Mint in your experience?

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  • [–] 57 points 9 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago

    Linux (probably mint or zorin), unless they need some specialty software ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

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  • [–] 20 points 9 months ago (16 children)

    If this average user doesn't need to use Microsoft or Apple software, Fedora Workstation Linux. My dad, who is 78 and of average intelligence can use it, anyone can.

    Linux can run on older, used hardware, has no AI, no Apple or Microsoft account required.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (15 children)

    Bazzite. Fedora + drivers + immutable + gaming works out of the box.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (5 children)

    I don't get the appeal of immutability. System files are read-only for users for a reason already. Don't modify them as root unless you know what you're doing and you'll be fine.

    What am I missing?

    (Also gaming for a 78 year old, meh.)

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    What you're missing is that the question was what would you recommend to the average user.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Exactly, so there should be no reason to edit sensitive system files in either case. Great, further to my point.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Bazzite?

    Really, you would recommend a young, gaming focused distribution for a non-tech person?

    I'd want something stable and trusted rather than something new and hip

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Yes. I've been switching non-tech people to Linux for 17 years. Ubuntu used to be the go to, but it has a steep learning curve for the average user, sucks, and has gotten consistently worse. Everyone eats their shit over Mint, and Cinnamon is nice, but I'd still field a lot of complaints. Pop! OS is awesome, but still only 90% of the way there (and also people hate the name).
    Bazzite is feature complete, requires zero tinkering on their end or mine, and 'just works' the way people expect a modern desktop OS to. I've converted just under a dozen people and several of my personal machines and haven't had an issue yet. So yes, I would recommend a young, gaming focused distribution to a non-tech person. Isn't Steam OS also young and gaming focused? And yet it's arguable that most non-tech people start their Linux journey there. bazzite is just an improvement on Steam OS. So yeah, I like it. I don't understand all the ire in this thread for my answer to the question. Everyone has their opinion, I have field research.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago*

    Yes.

    • In my Linux experience so far, Bazzite is the first time things have actually just worked out of the box and I haven't had to fix a single weird issue
    • It's immutable with atomic updates, so much lower likelihood of the base system getting messed up, and it's super easy to roll back to previous versions if something still manages to go wrong
    • Updates happen fully automatically in the background, you don't even notice it
    • You don't ever need to touch the terminal in normal usage. Everything is set up so that you can find any software a normie would need through the built-in app store. Flatpaks are great
    • If you object to the gaming focus, there's a variant that's just for regular desktop use and doesn't have the gaming stuff preinstalled, but otherwise comes with all the same benefits

    The one thing I'll give you is that it's a young distro and hasn't proven itself to be reliable and still available in the long term, but honestly, given all the other benefits, I'll take that chance

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (4 children)

    If you pick the correct hardware. Which is a crap shoot per distro, bazzite included.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (3 children)

    People keep saying this but I've not had a single solitary issue getting Bazzite working on a myriad of older and newer devices.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I've had issues on multiple devices.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    If you are mainly gaming, Bazzite. For everything else, Fedora.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago

    Linux. Hands down. Always.

    New user? Try Kubuntu Linux

    Power user? Eh, you can try anything but I'm still with Kubuntu because Ubuntu with KDE just works so damned nice

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Whatever Linux is being sold pre-installed on a machine within their budget.

    Told my dad to buy a Dell laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled after his last Windows laptop died. He's been fine with that for the last 5 years.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Point blank generic recommendation? MacOS.

    Otherwise, Linux is the endgame, so it's a matter of talking to the person to see what software is essential for them.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I mean sure, if they have a specific need for MacOS, but otherwise I think it's a bit disingenuous to recommend such an expensive platform.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I would love being able to pay for amazing Linux software. Don't think having zero on the price tag is helping Linux, but maybe that's just me. You pay with your time, not with your money.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I wouldnt dare recommending something that most cant use, simply because they cant buy, beyond that there ethical considerarions, Apple is famous for ecosystem lockin which is extremely unethical

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  • [–] 45 points 9 months ago (11 children)

    MacOS if they can afford it. Otherwise Linux Mint.

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  • [–] 27 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    What the other replies shitting on macOS seem to be overlooking is the support Apple provides.

    Got stuck on something? call the support line or web chat.

    Want to go to a training session? go to a local store.

    All this stuff is super important for a novice who wants to learn without feeling dependent on their tech friend.

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    This is what keeps Apple in business - they are very easy to use. Someone with zero technical skill can point at pictograms and open and close things. You could change the language to something you can't read and use most features without an issue.

    it reminds me of memes like this.

    And hey, failing that, Linux Mint. It works at least.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    The other thing that keeps Apple in business is tech companies not wanting to fuck around with windows or Linux laptops. Linux systems run the world and MacOS is just plain better when it comes to interacting with those systems while also serving as a good user-facing operating system.

    And before anyone says WSL, I was forced to use WSL for an engagement and anyone who tells you it’s viable is a lying or a Stockholm syndrome sufferer.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Ironically, tons of programmers also use Mac, because it has a rock-solid GUI on top of a Unix. The ‘pictograms’ don't matter as much as the fact that Apple designers actually know design basics unlike MS, and spent ages polishing the UI.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    They even have classes to easily make emojis. Like it’s absurd the customer service they have. Windows tells you to fuck off. Does Linux have one? (I ran Ubuntu in college but honestly the ease of Mac switched me, and then dealing with windows at work killed any desire to be near a windows product).

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Emojis - I think you mean stickers? Emojis as a set of characters are standardized by Unicode. A friend of mine has sent me stickers she's taken from photos. Samsung devices also do this within their own ecosystem, but there's not a frakin' class about how to do it.

    Linux customer service is "uh...there's a forum somewhere...have you looked there?" People on lemmy hate when I say it, but paid (not free) Claude is actually very adept at troubleshooting Linux issues.

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  • [+] -37 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    There's a rule you should learn. Never ever recommend Apple shit to people.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    said person is not particularly savvy with technology

    Maybe the rule to be learned is read the post.

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  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    So you're saying that it's a good idea to give an overpriced, non-repairable, underperforming, shit looking, shit behaving, toxic corporate assfuck trash system to a person who's not tech savvy.

    Are you part of some big brain trust?

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    Mate I'm no fan of Apple but half the stuff you said is completely subjective or based off 2012 era memes. How do you define "overpriced" or "underperforming"? In terms of price, the hardware in their machines is usually pretty good, build quality has always been great. You'll have to elaborate on "underperforming" as I'm not really sure what you're saying with this.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Hey, I'll give you $500 for every time I typed "good" in this thread prior to this comment. Take your time and look.

    Then, when you're done, I would encourage you to re-read the original post. Here, I'll help you:

    Say a friend is looking for a new system, and said person is not particularly savvy with technology, what system would you point them toward?

    I would never point a friend towards Windows. So that's easy.

    not particularly savvy with technology,

    Let's read it again, OK?

    not particularly savvy with technology,

    Meaning that this is someone who might be lucky to know how to spell their name or tie their shoes. Someone that failed a driving test 4 times. Why make life more complicated for this friend? Especially when, if I'm a friend as well, when they one day follow ChatGPT advice on how to do something inane and delete their boot partition or something stupid, I have to help unfuck their stuff. This is someone that doesn't deserve the responsibility that Linux distros give users. This is someone that doesn't practice 3-2-1 backups. This is someone that forgets their phone in a bar the day after they got a new phone because they left the last one at the beach, but HAS TO HAVE their photos on there or they'll die. They will never get anything repaired. They will never push performance limits (lol), as noted, they gladly spend money for someone to coddle them on using their device because they will never in their life learn how to do more than turn it on, take pictures, scroll IG or whatever, and a few other things.

    This is not someone smart enough to responsibly use a Linix distro in my mind. And there are a LOT of people like this out there. A lot. And sometimes we're friends with them and want them to at least not bother us all the time with problems if they're willing and able to do that with the people that made the device.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    What do they want to do?

    An iPad with a keyboard can serve the needs of a significant amount of users. I know people for whom it’s their only device apart from a phone.

    A hardcore gamer will want Windows. Linux can play a lot better of games natively or fairly easily via Proton. macOS has some good ones natively but playing via Wine is more complicated. Some specialized industry workflows will require it. Windows-only games and applications are the only reason to recommend Windows.

    Mac/macOS is great general purpose hardware and software. Good applications are available for art, science, engineering and productivity and it’s certified Unix. The ecosystem can be slick—Handoff from/to iPhone, unlock with Watch, TimeMachine backups, etc. Support people are usually native speakers from the same country. Some good native games and some through Wine are possible but Window and Linux have significantly more.

    Linux can work for basic email, productivity and web browsing. Gaming choices are better than macOS but Windows is still better. They don’t have to worry about ads or the next interface fad being forced on them. They’ll likely need a bit more hand-holding and support down the road. They’ll need a Linux guy but they can be up and running on old/cheap hardware.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    This is the first sane comment that understands OS is determined by use case. All the skids pushing mint are depressing.

    Ask the person questions and find out what they want to do with the machine. This is very much the kind of question teenagers ask and confidently answer like what programming language is best.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    Can confirm. A tablet can do about 99% of what people usually expect from a computer. Gamers and professionals are an exception to this rule.

    Usually people just want to check their email, browse news and watch YouTube. Any tablet these days is good enough for that kind of basic use. However, OP specifically asked about desktops, so I guess we are talking about someone who does have particular requirements after all.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Nice post to stir some shit, OP. 🍿

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    Depends, what do they wanna do with it?

    Otherwise just the OS they are most comfortable with.

    If they are equally uncomfortable with all options, and have only the most rudimentary requirements, probably a tablet using the same OS as their phone.

    If they genuinely wanted to take my opinion on the best choice, even if it meant learning, Linux. Probably something like Mint to start.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    Mint and no shit.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    From my perspective, it kinda depends on what phone your friend has.

    If they have an iPhone, and want to be able to integrate both systems, then macOS. If they're on Android, then Mint.

    Prior to my shift to Linux, I was all in on Apple. My MacBook, iPad and iPhone all worked beautifully together. These days I have a Pixel running Graphene, and my computing is a mix of macOS and Kubuntu, and while I'm using Kubuntu my iPad is basically useless. KDE Connect is spotty at best, and while SyncThing theoretically works, it's too much of a faff to bother setting up. Oh, and Apple Music is essentially non-existent on Linux if you value lossless audio.

    However, there are ways to integrate. Signal works well across the platforms for messaging, and even WhatsApp to some extent. Firefox is decent enough on iPad so you can sync tabs across. And WinBoat will run Apple Music in a VM, though that obviously takes a reasonable amount of utility from your computer.

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  • [–] 0 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Syncthing works great on Fedora, GrapheneOS, and an old android tablet. Wasn't difficult to set up.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    Yes. But that's not what I said.

    I've come to rely on SyncThing across my MacBook, Graphene phone, a couple of Linux machines I use, and an old Samsung tablet. But not my iPad. Because it sucks on iOS/iPadOS.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    At this point genuinely linux. For everyday shit like browsing, mailing, whatever, for sure.

    Apple is just... Apple. I guess. Windows is an ad. 

    Linux is the new "it just works".

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    iOS.

    Linux only if they can follow directions.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    Average user needs their computer mainly as a device to run a web browser. Mac does that the most reliably. This seems objectively true to me.

    If they're a nerd, then either Linux or Windows depending on what kind of nerd they are.

    Windows for gaming.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Debian Linux

    I have installed it for several computer illiterate old ladies. They swear by it.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago

    Apple for sure. I dislike them personally, but their OS has a great UI/UX and is very user friendly. And their stuff just works together really seamlessly.

    But, if all they do is browse the Internet, Linux is also a good option as long as you're ready to set it up for them and answer questions. I switched my 75yo mom to Mint when Win10 hit EoL and she hasn't had an issue.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    Nearing my 60s, very satisfied Linux Mint user. Obviously, it all depends what the user expects from their computer.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    i just erased windows 11 and replaced it with Linux Mint Cinnamon- not easy for me as I haven't used anything but apple ecosystem since forever, but I'm extremely happy with it, and the upgrade in privacy is worth it to me even if it weren't an excellent OS, which it definitely is. you just have to be willing to learn new things

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    MacOS combines user friendliness, easy learning curve, seamless integration with other devices, and reliability.

    It’s what I’d recommended to anyone who wants to use a computer without having to deal with the aggravation of dealing with a computer.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    The amount of people who spend thousands of dollars on MacBooks to just open up Safari makes me want to believe the average person could just have a ThinkPad with Mint or regular Ubuntu and be just fine. But the reality is if you run into a solvable issue on Windows or a MacBook, usually the degrees of separation from someone (friend or family member) who can solve that issue is much, much, much lower. I just seriously doubt most people can conduct the bare minimum of troubleshooting to be able to even search the internet for easy solutions. Can people learn? Absolutely! Are they going to go through the trouble? Probably not.

    But who knows, as personal computing becomes more expensive and system requirements stop people from updating. Maybe more people look to Linux as an alternative and perhaps we'll reach a critical mass where my previous statement doesn't matter.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    thousands? the browse-the-net macbook air is $999

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    Sure, but there are still plenty of people who buy MacBook Pros regardless of their actual use cases, simply because they think the laptops will last longer. Anecdotally, I've tried to stop at least three friends from making that purchase.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    MacOS.

    I hate Apple, and I do not like how they operate. But I cannot deny how user friendly their OS is, how affordable their machines are (Mac mini) and how even those who do not know how to use a PC, can pick them up and use them.

    Linux Mint is my second choice

    Only Linux which feels like a normal PC, and 99% of features can be installed via UI. There are holes, and I feel an immutable OS would fill this niche better, but for now this is my number 2.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I literally installed mom and dad's Mac mini yesterday. They need to be able to run commercial software. Moving to Mac was foreign enough for them, I don't think people in their 90's would do well with Linux. I will, however, work on getting my sister onto Linux. We will see.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    I fell with the right desktop environment like Plasma and a locked down OS that can be used without a password, Linux can be for all. Especially when it comes to using it as a web machine. If they don’t need apps, it’s fine.

    Mac’s are my go to if you need commercial software. And the one pain point for Linux as a OS.

    Though Valve is bridging the gap

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