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[–] 15 points 9 months ago (12 children)

I actually think this post has a lot of solid points, many of which I have argued myself in the past. One thing was funny though. He says:

Today's Reddit is a phone product. The “just use the web UI” crowd is not representative of mainstream behavior.

and then several users in the comments were turned off by the Web UI of Lemmy.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    It doesn't help that Lemmy's web UI is different depending on the instance. Personally I find dbzero's really bad. But they might think that's the Lemmy web UI and not realise it's different on each instance.

    Of course it's all subjective but I suspect the people complaining about the UI are likely users that have only known reddits "redesign", where as the older users will feel more at home on a default, unmodified Lemmy UI.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I disagree that having a variety of UIs is a bad thing. I wouldn't want every instance to look like dbzero! It also highlights that Lemmy is not a single platform, it's a federation of them. Heck even reddit has two UIs!

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    I'm not saying it's bad to have a variety of UIs, but that there's no "lemmy UI" because it all depends on which instance you land on. So when someone says "the lemmy UI is awful" then we don't really know what they mean, because they might have gone to dbzero and thought that's what "lemmy" looks like.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    I understand what you're saying, but what you want (conformity of UIs) is just not possible to enforce on a decentralized network.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I'm not saying I want conformity of the UI's across instances. Maybe my original comment wasn't worded great, but I think ultimately it's a drawback of the decentralised nature of the threadiverse. People land on an instance and make an assumption that it's all like that.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago*

    ... ironically i 99% use lemmy on my phone, lol.

    I have also had multiple people so far on lemmy just get livid about how i block out my sentences and paragraphs... you know, to make sense on the phone i am typing them on, to look nice.

    I've had people get legitimately angry that i formatted a comment for a phone, seemingly not even realizing that there are... what, at least 10 different mobile lemmy clients that are reasonably popular?

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    They may not know the phone apps, and if they're on iOS there may not be any.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    If a user taps “subscribe,” store it locally. When they finally create an account, they should be able to “claim” those subscriptions. This is a small UX move that has an outsized effect on conversion.

    Any evidence for this? Twitter tried something like this, but then moved to putting everything behind a log in wall so I'm led to believe that the latter has better guest-to-registration statistics.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I can't think of any other site that does that. In fact, if I was using a site like that for a while and then lost all my subscriptions because my cookies got wiped, I might not come back.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    There's also the issue of how you'd tell between a new user and a user with an account on the wrong instance. Imagine how confusing it would be to hit subscribe, see it goes through and when you go to your mobile app it's not there.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    That's not even going to be practically possible for people with no account. You could do it for the instance they're currently browsing from, but the cookie wouldn't carry to others if they found themselves browsing from another instance as the sort of "front end". Might be wrong, but that's how I understand cookies to work.

    Then there's edge cases like them trying to psuedo-subscribe to a community that hasn't been pulled down to the instance they're on yet. If you wanted it to work like it does for a real user, that would have to be logged by the instance so it could fetch it. That would be open to a lot of abuse I would think. Unauthenticated visitors could force federation of illegal comms, or effectively anonymously DDOS the instance by overloading it with requests to pull down tons of comms. There's plenty of ways to conbat that, but it would undeniably break the concepts behind how federation is meant to work (for the sake of storage and server efficiency) if you allowed it to be kicked off by guest users.

    So at best it would be a brittle thing, locked to the instance the guest was browsing at the time and restricted to comms already federated with the instance.

    Not completely useless, but it would be a hell of a lot of work for so little benefit.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    How delightfully European Union of them to debate debate debate in the face of a looming crisis.

    Yes Lemmy has a lot of improving to do, but I'm not seeing many other alternatives!

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    actually I do think aggregated sublemmies would be a good thing for engagement and content discovery - it seems silly that there are 4 different communities all about the same thing (eg buyfromeu)

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    reddit also has the google search privilege which makes hard to beat, it actively hides lemmy site.

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  • 42 comments in c/buyeuropean@feddit.uk view that post
    [–] 55 points 9 months ago (13 children)

    I just left reddit and registered lemmy. Did it all on a train ride. It felt pretty easy. Had to search two things: which app do I use for lemmy? And: how do I register for lemmy? Other than that: effortless.

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  • [–] 31 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Welcome!

    I hate to say it though, but Lemmy.ml is a sketchy instance. So there is a point to it not being as easy as it should be—it's hard to see the pitfall of the instance run by the developers being a Russia friendly mess.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Same, also, which instance? I know that the whole idea is that it kinda doesn’t matter, but still it’s nice to have a big instance. And it would be amazing having an easy resource to list the biggest communities. But all in all it was a 5 min thing, search for the Reddit equivalent of my most communities and let’s go :)

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  • [–] 18 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    If you want a big instance I recommend switching to something like lemmy.zip.

    Lemmy.ml unfortunately has very questionable moderation. I'm thrilled you guys are here, but the fact that you ended up on that instance is proof that we have ways to go as a platform.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Recommending lemmy.zip itself is problematic because it's blocking UK users.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Ah, right.

    I guess it does prove the point that there is still friction in instance selection. I guess I can partly sympathize with those who get so overwhelmed at this point that they just decide it's all too difficult. People are not used to making their own choices any more.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago

    The good news is instance hopping is pretty easy. I've already done it twice now.

    The "It's like email" comparison is cliche for the Fediverse at this point, but it really is. Most people are gonna switch eventually for some reason or another.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    I think that if English is not your first language, you should find an instance in your language. Way less instances to choose from, and you also get to see many communities in your language

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  • [–] 46 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    I had some doubts about Lemmy, thinking nobody uses it. Postponed registering for years, but I abandoned Reddit anyway.

    Turned out, it’s quality over quantity, and having less people is not the issue, but rather the opposite. I’m genuinely impressed how good it is. Also, using iOS, Mlem is a wonderful piece of software. The interface is much better than Reddit! It feels like a very solid upgrade.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago*

    I definitely felt the lemmy community as a whole was a lot more repetitive compared to reddit when i was scrolling it like half a year ago. Also lacking more specialized communities. Trying it again now.

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  • [–] 31 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

    The only thing missing on Lemmy is specialised communities. For everything about news and memes it's actually much more dynamic and interesting to interact here. Other than that, Reddit is basically only outrage and fake karma stories now.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    And arguably time will fix that. Or like. Reddit pre 2020 as an encyclopedia type thing. Maybe am archived copy with Wikipedia type editing or something. Idk. It's absolutely dead now. Lemmy already "feels" better. And I was hopeful about Digg but it just feels like a facade so far. We'll see. Improvise, adapt, overcome.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    It needs to grow for that. Right now Lemmy is just a news feed for me. Every small community I’ve found in areas that interest me is just too small to work. People barely post or comment at all, so they’re mostly ghost towns.

    The strength of Reddit is all its small hobby communities that are quite active but quite low on the outrage and viciousness. I still use Reddit for those because their Lemmy counterparts are not ready yet. I don’t use large subreddits and haven’t in over a decade, due to all the outrage and viciousness.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Ah no the historic amound of random celebrity tits too. If I want to see a naked celeb its reddit. Truly a wonder of humanity.

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  • [–] 28 points 9 months ago

    It seems part of the problem is that a lot of people from here want to explain Reddit users why federated platforms are the only viable options, and the Reddit users misunderstand this explanation of how the platforms work and why they have to work that way as an explanation of how to use them.

    Using Lemmy or Piefed is not hard. Understanding why centralized alternatives is not an alternative at all, now that requires you to be interested and understand some things. But we don't really need people to understand that. We just need them to sign up for some instance or another. Preferably not a tankie one.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago

    The best strategy I found is to tell Reddit users to use both platforms. Lemmy doesn't need to be the perfect alternative right away. They just need to test and see that the fediverse is not that hard to understand.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I'm dumb as a fucking brick and yet here I am.

    There literally is no excuse if I can figure it out. The only excuse I see is that people just don't want to leave the comfort of reddit and go here and actually put in the effort to build this place. Which btw isn't super hard either. You can make or comment on posts of you're a tech retard like I am. That is a way to keep the pulse of this place alive.

    I think people would do themselves a favor if they just admitted that they don't want to change because of the comfort of the big tech platforms and how they feed you endless entertainment without you having to make any effort.

    If I feel Lemmy is dull, it is my own fault for not adding to it. If I don't have anything to add, I'll have to deal with Lemmy being boring for a day or two and in the meantime I do something else.

    I think the scariest part about mainstream social media and part of why I cut the chord, was because it turns you into a mindless zombie. I still deal woth someone of the effects of it. The fear of boredom. It's such a destructive thing I allowed to do to my brain and it'll take me a minute to learn to be bored again. Already much better now than I used to be, but fuck. The level of lazy social media lures you into is scary.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    I actually kind of like a slight amount of friction to signing up. Making a lemmy account takes almost no technical effort. Being able to understand what an instance is and which one is suitable for an individual user can be easily demystified with a cursory Google search, or even asking a shitty AI chatbot.

    The only excuse is that it's harder to do that than it is to make an account on reddit or tiktok or whatever.

    A big part of what made web 1.0 special, imo, is that everyone had a baseline technical competency in order to access the web and understand what they needed to do to visit certain websites. It wasn't an extreme barrier, and someone who was determined could parse out the steps required with no formal instructions whatsoever. But the app economy ruined all of that and made everything ultra-accessible. Social media just preyed on that lazy mindset to keep users engaged with their algorithms forever.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Been a rocky road for me, more than a year ago I created a lemm.ee account, even used that for a few weeks later, but got a bit bored because I felt there was not enough diversity in here. And then lemm.ee was taken down. Kind of a double whammy.

    Yesterday someone in reddit brought up a discussion how signing up and using lemmy should be simplified, they had a link, clicked it and simply registered a new account there without even checking what instance it was (I simply can't be bothered to do the research again), so I ended up with a thelemmy.club account. Then someone promoted piefed.social, said its easy, so I created an account for that too, so here I am.

    Then I found out piefed.social has a philosophy to not show downvotes or upvote downvote percentages, I kind of like checking downvotes too, I mean its not youtube (yes, shots fired) so I tried to get out of that quite quickly. Luckily phtn.app supports piefed.social and looks nice, while on phone I already had Summit installed from lemm.ee times and that supports piefed.social too, even though its not a lemmy system or what you call it.

    Right now I'm working through these 300 subscriptions that piefed suggested me, unsubscribing from some i don't like, then i'll probably read feed for All for a while to discover new communities. Let's see how long I last on this fediverse thing this time.

    I also have mastodon on my phone, but I was never into instagram / twitter etc, so im not very into that too and its kind of a ghost town. Same goes for pixelfed. I also have a Loops account (even though I've never used tiktok either), thats starting to look better, but still needs more people, I think.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Easy access, mainstream app that is good, word of mouth. Master all 3 and Lemmy will be a great rival to Reddit.

    I been feeling that Lemmy is quite active as of late. Nice to be here. I dropped scrolling Reddit at work and since recent, trying to stay in Lemmy on my phone too.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Quick question, is there a non-reddit link to read this, preferably on Lemmy

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    It felt effortless to me. It might need a bit more polished user interface on web, but other than that it feels like a good, user friendly app. What it needs rather is more visibility.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    It can't feel effortless and it never will. Why? Because Reddit is like having every person in your telehone book, easy to find and communicate with. And Lemmy and fediverse in general are like phone numbers without a phone book. You and someone else might both have telephones, but unless you meet in person or another way to exchange contact details, you can't communicate with each other.

    So, people need to put a bit more effort in it to understand it, or we need a fediverse telephone book.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    I only joined a few days ago. And I was positively surprised by the guest mode that boost provides. It already has a bunch of default subscriptions. Although a first run wizard would have been even better.

    I was a bit disappointed when I created an account and the feed was suddenly completely empty.

    I also would like to see a smarter home feed. Cluster algorithms and engagement tracking could help some. But I'm currently missing a way more basic feature. Please don't show me the same posts over and over again, every time I open the app!

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago*

    it needs to feel effortless

    What an entitled take. No community worth its space is "effortless". Building an actual, worthwhile community takes care and time, and that need never ends.

    But what people really want in these hollow comparisons to Reddit is an infinite content machine - a place to go for an endless stream of mindless content that requires no effort on their part. It's purely selfish, and if those people are turned away by the "effort" required just to sign up, then good. Users like that are, at best, a burden, and more likely to sway these spaces into directions they're better off not headed.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    The thing is yes we need people, but we need people to understand the concept and build new instances, whether this is for personal use or to accept new users.
    Also I don't get why this guy is trying to sell lemmy to users reddit. Lemmy is supposed to be a different, better than reddit in other ways, why change it? Don't forget that the creators of lemmy, need $$$$ per month, and features are not 100% doable.

    People also say we don't have user base! We have, but they are here only for politics.

    Also, joining to lemmy, it can be done ether by joining an instance or making an instance. And don't forget the main point, for lemmy to survive and work correct, lots instances need to exist.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)