A masked guy breaks down your door w/o an Article III warrant absent exigent circumstances? Yeah, I'd agree. Trick will be that pressing the murder charge would be federal since a federal agent dies in the line of official work (though illegal), which would give the president grounds to push for death.

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[–] 104 points 9 months ago* (8 children)

Trick will be that pressing the murder charge would be federal since a federal agent dies in the line of official work (though illegal), which would give the president grounds to push for death.

Federal prosecutors are having a real tough time getting juries to convict, and sometimes even indict, citizens accused of assaulting ICE and CBP agents. They have 30 cases against Chicago residents, and so far they're 0 for 15. They couldn't get a felony indictment for the sandwich-throwing guy in DC, so they went for a misdemeanor; he was aquitted despite clearly having done it. It is not at all clear to me that the feds could get a conviction for killing someone during what is, legally, a home invasion.

(This is not an incitement of violence towards any federal agents, nor am I advocating for anyone to break any state or federal laws. To any FBI agents reading this, I think you're very smart and handsome.)

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  • [–] 32 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    I’m willing to bet large this DOJ has lost more cases than any other administration previously. It’s hilarious.

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  • [–] 30 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    They had this grand plan to weaponize the DOJ, but no one stopped to ask, "wait, what if everyone on the jury fucking hates us?"

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  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    This is exactly why juries exist. Jury nullification isn't a loophole or a trick. It's a built-in defense against unjust laws and corrupted executive and judicial officials.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    I don't think any of the cases have been jury nullification, they keep bringing unreasonable charges and the jury doesn't buy it.

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  • [–] 23 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Not disagreeing with you, but a misdemeanour for throwing a sandwich at someone is a joke.

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  • [–] 22 points 9 months ago

    True, but then again, there was that tow truck driver in LA who towed that ICE car, with flashing police lights, in the middle of a stop. I can't imagine someone getting away with that if it had been a normal LAPD stop.

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  • [–] 79 points 9 months ago (19 children)

    The problem is, if you fire at a kidnapper who breaks down your door they will call back up and they aren’t going to stop until you’re dead.

    Fuck ICE.

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  • [–] 47 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    If they're kicking down my door, I'm fucked either way. Might as well try to take a few with me and make them more hesitant with the next house.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    When they kick down your front door, how you gonna come? With the hands on your head or on the trigger of your gun. When the law breaks in, how you gonna go, shot down on the pavement or waiting in death row? You can crush us, you can bruise us But you'll have to answer to Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton The money feels good And your life you like it well But surely your time will come As in Heaven as in Hell You see, he feels like Ivan Born under the Brixton sun His game is called survivin' At the end of the harder they come You know it means no mercy They caught him with a gun No need for the Black Maria Goodbye to the Brixton sun You can crush us, you can bruise us But you'll have to answer to Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton When they kick at your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun You can crush us, you can bruise us And even shoot us But oh-oh, the guns of Brixton Shot down on the pavement Waiting in death row His game was survivin' As in Heaven as in Hell You can crush us, you can bruise us But you'll have to answer to Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton Oh-oh, the guns of Brixton

    They believe they can crush us with this overwhelming brutality. But Nope. We will be like the Irish... never giving up and blowing those mfers up strategically and unendingly. We will not submit.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Don't let them choose the battlefield. In your home you should prioritize escaping above all else.

    Anyone who wants to fight back effectively will HAVE to take the fight to them.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Which should be easy enough - just dress as they do - do we have any latent serial killers around? Because this would be a nice chance for them to start racking up kills. Dress up as ICE, kill some ICE goons, then calmly walk away because not even other ICE can tell you aren't one of them. Some folks might blow whistles and boo you, that's about the end of the consequences. If you turn up on security footage - well, no, you really didn't. ICE did.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

    Sounds like a problem solved with stockpiling more ammo.

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  • [–] 50 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [+] 47 points 9 months ago (12 children)
  • [–] 24 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    Maybe, assuming you make it out of the encounter alive which seems pretty unlikely. In the pictures and videos of these raids there's usually at least 6 agents involved. If you drop one or two I don't think the other four would let you leave or peacefully surrender. If you got all six you might be able to leave or wait for the local PD and turn yourself in to them but all of that sounds pretty unbelievable to me.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    As soon as you shoot one, they'll be calling it in. There is no winning in that scenario

    If ICE shows up at your door, demanding entry, you have no recourse. The law no longer protects citizens in their own home

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Guess you'll have to start keeping a kettle of hot oil above your front porch...

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    They'll just shoot you

    Then Kristi Noem will make an address telling the world how you were a domestic terrorist who threw boiling oil at brave ICE agents just performing their duties

    Pam Bondi will direct the justice department to investigate your spouse, parents, children, and any others they can

    Trump will say you were evil and deserved death

    Half the country will be outraged that you were killed while defending your own home from a clearly illegal ICE raid

    The other half of the country will say, "you were a domestic terrorist who threw boiling oil at brave ICE agents just performing their duties". They will say, if you did nothing wrong, why are your spouse, parents, children, and others being investigated? An innocent person wouldn't be related to so many criminals under investigation

    They will conclude, "you were evil and deserved death"

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  • [–] 44 points 9 months ago

    Texas says if I feel threatened on my property, in my car, or at my job, I can shoot first and ask questions later. As a minority I don't have the luxury of time to determine if you are a threat to my existence.

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  • [–] 124 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    This is the exact response that should have been proclaimed 8 months ago. Fuck this stupid goddamn fucking country full of sister-fuckers.

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  • [+] 9 points 9 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 84 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    Where have all the "stand yer ground" people been at?

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  • [–] 94 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    .... Dude sorry to break it to you, but they work for ICE

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago* (3 children)

    Good news is the people that talk about it like that can't aim for shit.

    A ton of gun buying not a whole lot of gun shooting typically

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    can’t aim for shit.

    which means they will just kill someone else than they aimed for. not sure if it is a win.

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  • [–] 5 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Can't stand your ground if you're not at home.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Actually, I'm pretty sure you can depending on the state. Take Zimmerman for example.

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    [–] 38 points 9 months ago

    Okay gun folks, time to defend your homes!

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  • [–] 22 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    Fine. There’s more of us than there is of them. They will run out of people before we will.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Yeah, but they have more tanks.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    Tanks are terribly impractical weapons.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 9 months ago* (7 children)

    Okay. They have more F35s Blackbirds B2s Tomahawks Drones [insert alternative of choice here].

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    A lot of resources to be expended on domestic soil, eventually they'll run out of both weapons and the very working people they need to keep the economy running to (among other things) keep producing weapons, no?

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    Yes and no. I think you vastly underestimate the military's stockpile. So, they could subsist for a good while until all the Democrats/"Domestic Terrorists"/Undesirables are dead. Then, they'd just restart. Still though. If the rural farmers from Afghanistan/Iraq can defeat the US military through persistence with sticks, then the same can be done here. Their tactics might even serve as a roadmap.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago*

    I mean it's true they have a lot of stuff, but having stuff alone isn't all you need to have military success. Stuff is just stuff, it stays still until you use it, and it's useless unless you use it well.

    I mean, something something Bay of Pigs, something something Vietnam, so on and so forth...

    Every war is won with 10% weapons and 90% logistics, and a pinch of field intelligence. In a domestic conflict, the "territory" is the same for both parties; it's very hard to defend a logistics system (the "tail" of your military operation) when it's in the 'contested' territory itself. And this is where the direct action comes in (something something Sabo the Cat!)

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    Those are great for blowing up entire apartment buildings with women and children inside. Not very handy if there are people you do not want to kill.

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  • [–] 17 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    The only problem I see, when the MAGA fucknut ICE goons assault a MAGA fucknut minority home owner, are the stray bullets zipping all over place. Yep, it's going to be a Cluster Fuck.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago

    Fuck yeah open fire!

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  • [–] 10 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Gotta learn how to make bombs cause shooting one won't be enough.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    I was just thinking of that but I don't really want to be considered a terrorist. However, I FEEL that my government is enacting terrorism against its own citizens; and the evidence is very clear. They are killing us under the threadiest of pretext. They lie with every word they utter. They have no integrity, just a fulcrum of a pretext.. a hinge of bullshit. However, I feel that the elevation of violence will just bring more and probably an insurrection act that will even limit us more. It appears that their actions are targeted to initiate a response... I am of 2 minds on this. I think suspending action will just make the noose tighter. The agreeing in advance kind of thing. Perhaps there is some way that people in free states can communicate without using social media/tracked data and discuss a decent plan. Just spitballing. We were not prepared for this at all and are late.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    They are killing us and we're just supposed to either sit there and take it or chant in the streets for a day or two then go back to work. We can at the very least make them scared that every time they storm a house or try to tackle someone, they'll get blown up.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Fill a mannequin with tannerite and screws and put it near your front door. Stick a gun in it's hand or a good looking airsoft gun. Dress it up so it isn't obviously a mannequin.

    Boom problem solved.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Maybe start channeling our inner Kevin McCallister…

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago

    Hate to have to test it but...

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago

    california police formed lines between people and goons. yeah yeah can't be everywhere. but they can fire back

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago*

    So does the constitution. I think we should start building like home alone style trap houses for these Nazi scum

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  • I wouldn't take their word for it.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    What the fuck is the sole commenter on that article even trying to say?

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago
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