This is a good source, but why the fuck is Spotify listed as a suitable alternative? Spotify is one of THE apps that people are trying to break away from.
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Yes, absolutely. I'd prefer transition to FOSS/ open source. If the development is by others also better than the billionaire led organizations.
Call me cynical, but I don't expect these to be better alternatives for long. The main issue lies with the fact that these services are both centralized and profit-motivated, and I don't anticipate that the EU's privacy laws, though they are better than those in the US, will be much protection once even one of these competitors gets big enough to have a say in politics. Self-hosted, open-source apps are a far better solution than relying on yet another company that has full control of the software, especially with the barrier to entry for those apps getting smaller with each passing day.
There are multiple projects available that will let you turn even a mediocre extra PC into a platform for self-hosted apps with not a lot of effort. Yunohost and CasaOS are two that come to mind, but other options exist. Hell, even just running Nextcloud is probably enough to cover most people's SaaS needs, though it can require a bit more work than the other two that I mentioned.
You're too cynical. Yes, EU is not immune to lobbying but it's way better at regulating companies than US is. Those alternatives are clearly better now so not switching because "they may not be as good in the future" is not a valid reason to keep using US tech.
Moving to something that's still at significant risk of being enshittified is an objectively worse move than going to something that's not, though. I'm not saying to keep US tech, I'm saying to build your own now so you don't have to move again in a couple years.
If someone is able to self host then of course it's a better solution but self hosting requires knowledge, time and money and is not for everyone. EU tech is better than US tech so if someone is not able to self host moving to European providers is the next best solution and should be encouraged.
That's kinda my point, though. The solutions I mentioned in my original comment are already approaching the same level of simplicity as a smartphone, and they should be recommended over centralized options as much as possible. I'm not suggesting that the average person should try and host their own email, but with something like Yunohost, running a copy of Nextcloud or Seafile is about as difficult as installing their corresponding apps on your phone.
https://curlie.org is another web directory. Looks almost the same.
So no smartphones.
Nokia is Finnish and I'm not sure if t hat's considered European. It's not American though. In fact the only American company left making phones is Apple. The problem is, the rest of them uses Android, which spies on you. Counterpoint: Apple won't let you install apps your government doesn't approve of. Counterpoint to the counterpoint: Android. Fucking. Spies. On. You. Counterpoint to the... you get the idea: Apple still hasn't shipped a working software keyboard. Pick your poison. Spyware or a broken keyboard and you can't use a few apps you may not care about... but you're buying from an American company whose CEO kisses Trump's arse and literally gave him a solid gold participation trophy.
I want to see real Linux phones that don't run Android and are somewhat competitive with Android phones, at least in the mid-range space. No one expects them to compete with the iPhone, or the equivalent Android phone that comes out 3-5 years later and stops getting updates while the iPhone it matches on performance is still getting them... but it shouldn't have to. We kinda hit a plateau a few years ago.
Otherwise, definitely worth a look.
Nokia is Finnish and I’m not sure if t hat’s considered European.
Pff of course they are!
Not all android spies on you. Have you ever tried GrapheneOS? It's very secure and pro-privacy. Technically it's not android (if you really want to nitpick), but you need a Google Pixel to run it.
Yes, GrapheneOS is Android (it's AOSP without Google Play Services and GApps, with open source replacements). It's like what CyanogenMod was back in the day. I haven't used Graphene; I've never owned a Pixel. And Graphene is only on Pixels.
I've used a ton of Android custom firmware... from around Ice Cream Sandwich through Lollipop — back when Android was named for desserts. My favourite CFW was LiquidSmooth based on Jellybean, based on AOKP, which was an AOSP fork that tried to be "cool." It wasn't quite as cool as Paranoid Android (which was fucking awesome), but it was way more stable. And CyanogenMod was the most stable but "boring" by comparison. I mean it wasn't flashy. But LiquidSmooth was rock solid. So no, I haven't used Graphene, but I've used forks/ROMs like it.
If Google Play Services is running on it, and you're not blocking it with a firewall (not sure if you even can, but I suppose it isn't impossible), then yes, it's spying on you. (I do not think GrapheneOS runs Google Play Services.)
Yeah. Before OneUI 8, you could set up a custom ROM on a Samsung phone too. Short of that you can disable google services. Use non google apps from F-Droid or Aurora Store. You can also use ADB to uninstall system-level APKs. Though the only way that I know of to fully de-google is to install a different OS.
The label "Android" explicitly includes the ability to spy on you. GrapheneOS is not Android certified.
We indeed need to degooglize smartphones.
There are ways but difficult to implement for now...
i remember learning to degoogle with adb. it wasn't easy and i had to reset more than a couple of times
then i installed LineageOS, after adb it was easier. For somebody else it may be "difficult" indeed
then i installed GrapheneOS for a friend. It can't get any easier. Their web installer makes degoogling accessible to everyone.
I mean, the best way is to throw iPhone money at Google, and get iPhone 11 level performance out of a Pixel 10, then wipe the firmware and replace it with GrapheneOS. This is problematic for a couple reasons. One, if you're gonna pay iPhone money, maybe just get an iPhone? Solves a big chunk of the privacy issue, but doesn't get you away from American tech companies, which was your original point. So we set that option aside. Two, you have to give Google money, so they win either way. Sure, they lose out on that targeted ad money, but they sold you years-old tech at a premium price — so they win. Of course, you can buy a used Pixel, but it's gonna be even less powerful (assuming it's an older model).
I think the best option is to take the open-source AOSP (Android Open Source Project) that the closed-source Android is based on, and make a fork that doesn't use Google, like Amazon did with Fire OS. Then you'd just need a hardware partner.
Apparently, Graphene OS is looking into this, but I don't like the idea of a stripped-down Android phone. If I'm paying iPhone price on years-old hardware, the OS better kick some ass. The alternatives to iPhone just offer too many compromises in the name of virtues that I don't really think matter enough. If we can't get an alternative that can match iPhone on performance, it should have an awesome user experience.
I heard of Sailfish OS, linux-based but with an Android compatibility layer.
Linux phones exist, but they're:
- niche
- bad software ecosystem
- pretty expensive But, feel free to try them out. Pinephones are a thing.
I want to see real Linux phones that don’t run Android and are somewhat competitive with Android phones, at least in the mid-range space.
There's a large graveyard of attempts at this. The most recent and successful is probably Tizen. Prior to that Firefox OS. People just don't buy them so there's no market for them.
The iPad also wasn't Apple's first tablet. The Newton basically sucked and no one liked it. But now there's really no point in buying anything but an iPad if you want a tablet, even if you use an Android phone.
There were a ton of bad MP3 players before the iPod and a bunch of smartphones before the iPhone, except in both cases, some of them were good. You just had to be real savvy to find those diamonds in the rough, because it sure was a rough market.
The problem is, Google is a data services (advertising and marketing) company. The only reason Android even exists is because Google bought it from a hobbyist (Andy Rubin) because they knew they could use it to scrape more data than Gmail alone. Android exists to harvest your data so that Google can collect and sell it.
Meanwhile, Apple is still kind of trying to sell phones like computers. They're pushing performance harder than their rivals, and they want to be a privacy-first company, but they're based in the US, and are licking fascist boots, so it's not a good look. And now Apple is pushing services as well, subscriptions and whatnot. Is it really better than Android? Especially given the shortcomings in app choice (e.g. sideloading) and the broken ass keyboard? I dunno. I'm a Mac guy, I like Apple tech, warts and all. And I still think they protect your privacy. I think, like Mozilla, they collect telemetry so they know how their products are used, but I don't believe they are tracking your activity across apps/the web, building a profile on you, and selling this to advertisers. And they've gone after companies that try to do so on their platform — when CEO Tim Cook came out and said "starting today, we're still going to let Facebook track you across apps and the web, but we're going to make them get your permission first" or something like that. And from then, you had to agree to the tracking. If you said no, the app was stopped from doing it. Apparently it was effective, Facebook ran a huge ad campaign claiming to be a small business and saying Apple was hurting small businesses like them. (They've since found ways around it. Apple has tried to block them. It's a cat-and-mouse game.) Anyway, point is, I don't know how long Apple can keep selling phones like computers. Arguably, they stopped a while ago. And that's a shame. And it's why, as an Apple guy, I'm rooting for Linux phones. Because if Apple won't sell a phone like a computer, well... that's the kind of phone I want. A pocket computer that can call.
A pocket computer that can call.
I held that same mindset for years in the prior generation of technology. I had a Sharp Zaurus and later a Nokia n700 for pocket Linux computing. It took a large amount of effort to make them useful devices. Most people simply don't have the time or ability to do that for themselves and products like iOS and Android deliver what they're looking for right out of the box.
I really wish we'd stop referring to non-Big Tech solutions as "alternatives" because labeling something as such automatically places them as second-rate, substandard compared to the big guys. Language and how we talk about things can change the narrative.
But yes, that's a great resource. But if you also wanna know what people are switching from, and why, and where, etc., then check out the visualizations at switchdigest.eu
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