[–] 1 point 2 weeks ago*

I see where you're heading, but

  • what do thieves run away with?
  • how does the police stop secret rapes while I have a handful of the richest in mind?
  • who is regarded as psychopath while I have a handful of the richest in mind?
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  • Software Foundations: Seven free Volumes (softwarefoundations.cis.upenn.edu)
     

    The Software Foundations series is a broad introduction to the mathematical underpinnings of reliable software.

    The principal novelty of the series is that every detail is one hundred percent formalized and machine-checked: the entire text of each volume, including the exercises, is literally a "proof script" for the Rocq proof assistant.

    The exposition is intended for a broad range of readers, from advanced undergraduates to PhD students and researchers. No specific background in logic or programming languages is assumed, though a degree of mathematical maturity is helpful. A one-semester course can expect to cover Logical Foundations plus most of Programming Language Foundations or Verified Functional Algorithms or Security Foundations, or selections from them.

    1. Logical Foundations
    2. Programming Language Foundations
    3. Verified Functional Algorithms
    4. Property-Based Testing in Rocq
    5. Verifiable C
    6. Separation Logic Foundations
    7. Security Foundations

    Hosted by the faculty "Computer and Information Science" at the University of Pennsilvania

    [–] [S] 1 point 1 month ago

    By physical ranking I mean something users can grasp. If you 'drop' posts, maybe they should better be ranked like falling stones? If posts go 'viral', maybe they should better be ranked like infections? Reddit seems to have treated posts like random page walk phenomena, but not really. Then reddit "fixed" the ranking long after users started to call it the frontpage of the internet and piefed implements the "fix", not the original. Is this about taste?

    1. The end-user problem of being exposed to some particular ranking function nobody can explain.
    2. Piefed is not a closed system like reddit is. Maybe the ranking should take that into account.
    3. Could ranking functions be configurable? Maybe that would avoid the doubts.
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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 child)

    According to (4) we could also ommit 1685766018. But want it back in because the values get too large technically speaking, right?

    In point (3) the legitimacy of the hotness-window of 12.5 hours strongly depends on the number of visits per day piefed has, doesn't it? It ignores how many visitors vote on posts across the site in that hour. Or how many could be made everytime the post is shown.

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  • Post ranking Question (piefed.social)
     

    How piefed currently ranks

    I took a look into post.post_ranking which is an implementation of what has been described by Amir Salihefendic in 2015.

    if post_date is None:  
        post_date = datetime.utcnow()  
    if score is None:  
        score = 1  
    order = math.log(max(abs(score), 1), 10)  
    sign = 1 if score > 0 else -1 if score < 0 else 0  
    seconds = self.epoch_seconds(post_date) - 1685766018  
    return round(sign * order + seconds / 45000, 7)  
    

    It looks esotheric to me.

    1. The log(... score) is quickly explained by the recursion of higher visibility through higher scores. The higher the score, the more views and more votes. That's fine with me. A lot depends on the first votes, I can't argue with that. But why they picked the base of 10 is left unexplained.
    2. The value 1685766018 refers to the unix date 2023-01-03T14:07:42. It looks like a magic/random date to me. However that date seems to be unimportant later on.
    3. The divisor of 45000 seconds is equivalent to 12.5 hours, 1 half-day. Through dividing the post age by 12.5 hours the age is basically converted from seconds to half-days. Again, unexplained why 12.5 h.
    4. In the end, we add up log(score, 10) + age in half days. I don't get why they add them up.

    Say, we choose a different log base like 2 instead of 10. How would the age measurement need to be adapted in order to get the same post_ranking results? All I know is it is unimportant. We just have to adapt the 45000 s to be 13546 s.

    If we'd change the magic date we would need to adapt the arbitrary 45000 seconds again. (Wouldn't change the rank, I suspect.)


    Different approaches / statements

    Here, something slightly different is claimed to be the reddit formula: Here, the sign decides if time is good or bad, not the log score.

    score = log_10(|score|) + sign(score) * seconds / 45000  
    

    Lobsters has this: (I removed a hotness-bonus, a comment score and several plus-ones.)

    score = sign(score) * log(|score| + seconds / 81000)  
    

    They call the 81000 s (22.5 hours) the "hotness window". That article features an interesting animation of three kinds of posts: viral hit, sleeper hit, steady performer.

    Evan Miller explored the reddit formula and boiled it down to:

    ln( score ) + factor * seconds  
    

    Seeing similarites to Bayesian beta distribution in a poisson process, Miller concludes:

    I realize that proposing any change to how Reddit works is one of the Internet’s most dangerous games, so I hesitate to beat the drum in favor of MillerSort™. But I believe that expected-utility theory and a simple random-reload model can help explain why the Reddit formula has been so effective in the past, and shine a light on aspects that might be improved. In particular, the Reddit formula should probably take into account the percent of votes that are positive, rather than just taking the difference between positive and negative votes.

    By the way, the original seems to be over 12 years old: https://github.com/reddit-archive/reddit/commit/50d35de04b928836b7ee955c8a26f197e24ab01e That commit explains the diversity of where to put the sign function.


    Say, I'd suggest a different, more physical ranking function. How would we test it? Does somebody have statistics?


    Edit: Correction concerning the choice of the log base. Precision on point 4. Guess about having to change 45000 for a different magic date.
    Edit 2: Moved my comment beneath a new headline in my OP.
    Edit3: Added more different approaches / statements. Consistent naming.
    Edit4: Fixed an error in Lobsters' function.

     

    What is this about?

    Originally, I came across some debate platform and wondered if this is actually new and how it compares to other software. Also, where could I discuss software like this in general? I think debate software might be the operating system revolution of many different organizations. Political parties with a long history (glorified traditions, strong path-dependencies and aged members) need to renew themselves real quick! Newly founded alt-rights movements without the technical debt will overrun them very soon. So I started this community.

    Who moderates this?

    I don't have any Sociology background but as a Computer Scientist, I have read Niklas Luhmann and hopped on and off some online community to learn more about it years ago. I have experience in using reddit, lemmy, piefed, ex-twitter, mastodon and also wrote in the comment section below some newspaper websites (of which some let users rank them just like reddit posts.) But I have no experience in using such specific software in political contexts like inside a party. However I'm very interested and heard some talks about more-or-less experimental software.

    What does Discourse Technologies mean?

    It's about technology that helps with discourses. It's not about communication and colaboration in general but particularly about the active process of finding consensus, or even truth. Technology can help with organizing pro-contra-arguments, fact verification and other flaws of emotional debates.

    About the wording, I don't want to get too theoretical:

    - An argument is between two participants and concerns a single problem. Arguments can end unresolved.  
    - A debate has more than two participants. The third participant could be a moderator, who e.g. cools down emotions or regulates speech time.  
    - A discussion is at least one debate but all acording to one topic. Topic can be everything, not only problems. A topic is fully discussed if all perspectives have been represented and evaluated.  
    - A discourse is the complete process of problem discovery and the discussion about their solutions. It ends when no problems remain unsolved. It's only moderated by some emergent [bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_norm).  
    

    If I'm wrong, please correct me in the comments! In the end it's all about collective problem solving.

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