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[–] 265 points 1 year ago

Sweet. I appreciate that their reaction has Streisand-effected this app into my awareness.

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  • [–] 168 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    They could try not being brown shirts. Problem solved.

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  • [–] 93 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    I love the quote about how it is putting federal agents in danger...and I sort of think that they are doing that themselves.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago

    Good, those agents are playing a dangerous game and you should know if you play with fire your going get burned. Its a matter of time before they try to kidnap the wrong person, and that person decides its better to die in America then it is to go to a camp then deported.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    which is great for necessitating the need to give absolute militant power to police forces. It's like... the PR of him having a 'meltdown' is for a reason or something.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    PR for who? Who is on the fence about ICE?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Probably lots of people in red states. Farmers for instance, people who generally buy the Republican bullshit, but may personally rely heavily on immigrant workers. ICE puts them in a really tough position.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    You've made a potential error in underestimating just how horrible some peoples' lives are and how filled with hatred they are over that fact. This is really what drives so much of politics in the world--disgruntled people with no future who choose to hate others who have nothing to do with it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    You’ve made a potential error in underestimating just how horrible some peoples’ lives are and how filled with hatred they are over that fact.

    What fact? People's lives are horrible BECAUSE of ICE. They're so horrible that I considered that nobody would be "on the fence" because either you drank the Fear-Of-Crime Kool-Aid or you are horrified at what ICE agents are doing to children and poor people. The entire reason there are people who don't think ICE needs to be abolished right now is because Fox News and other right-wing grifters have pumped out propaganda making it look like there is a "crime wave" like it's the Reagan Era, and people living in the Suburbs not knowing what the outside world is like. Not only do they choose to portray a crime wave, they have to do it, because otherwise people would see their president as the power-hungry maniac he is rather than a savior of order. No riot is actually making people miserable, only the police-reported, sensationalist coverage of protests.

    This is really what drives so much of politics in the world–disgruntled people with no future who choose to hate others who have nothing to do with it.

    That's just the American Suburbs. I hope American states can secede to change this. Meanwhile, in Vietnam, there is a high-speed rail being built. This is not driven by disgruntled people, people with no future, or people who choose not to hate others who have nothing to do with it. Neither is Iran defending itself from an imperialist regime, nor Australia having their left-wing Labour party completely outdo the right-wing Liberal party. America is the villain here.

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  • [–] 140 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    "[the app] basically paints a target on federal law enforcement officers’ backs"

    When it comes to painting targets on backs, better them then innocent civilians.

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  • [–] 73 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Lol.

    R's have not only painted targets, they've made ads, and joked about killing civilians and anyone other than MAGAts

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/guns-republican-primary-campaign-ads-midterms-1336903/

    Greene in an ad for her 2020 campaign cocked an assault rifle as she warned “antifa terrorists” to stay out of her district

    Masters, a venture capitalist and favorite of Trump-loving billionaire Peter Thiel, has featured guns prominently throughout his primary campaign. He responded to President Biden’s promise on Monday to crack down on “ghost guns,” which are homemade and untraceable, by tweeting a picture of a “ghost gun” he recently built himself. “Very legal & very cool,” he wrote.

    https://www.indy100.com/politics/eric-greitens-campaign-ad-gun

    "There's no bagging limit, no tagging limit, and it doesn't expire until we save our country."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/south-carolina-governor-henry-mcmaster-hunting-dogs-b2344416.html

    "I look forward to the day that Democrats are so rare, we have to hunt them with dogs,"

    Edit: and for the record, Blake Masters is a piece of shit buddy of both elon and Vance and they are all tied together in their hate for democracy and love of Curtis Yarvin and the plot to destroy western civilization. (Source: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-new-right-where-peter-thiel-is-placing-his-biggest-bets)

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  • [–] 90 points 1 year ago (29 children)

    Anyone have a link to the app/website? I’d like to follow some among honing my horn and warning folks.

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  • [–] 79 points 1 year ago (28 children)
  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago (27 children)

    Is this only on Apple? Kind of lame.

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  • [–] 54 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (24 children)

    This is IOS only owing to Android play store collecting a device identifier; the creator wanted complete anonymity

    Quote from some other place people were discussing it. Unfortunately no source on it.

    EDIT: https://www.iceblock.app/android

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    There are other stores besides the playstore..

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    It's not about the store, it's about the notification.

    As mentioned in the Time article:

    the app is not available on Android because it "requires a device ID in order to send push notifications, which requires a user account and a password."

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    You don't need a user account or password to receive a push notification.

    You just need to have the app installed. The app can be configured by the developer to receive push notifications.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    And the developer needs a device ID for that. Which is their objection: https://www.iceblock.app/android

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (4 children)

    How do you suppose APNS knows which device to deliver the notification to?

    Something that... links it to the device? Like, a unique ID that Apple can identify?

    It sounds like he thinks HE has to store this information, which is simply incorrect. It will obviously be stored by Google in Firebase, and by Apple wherever that gets stored, but HE does not have to store it.

    I write apps for a living. I have users subscribe and unsubscribe to channels, and at no point is there a user account with password involved in either iOS or Android. If you want the memory of which channels they have subscribed to to persist across uninstall/reinstalls or different devices, then yes, but for an app like this you don't need to persist those settings.

    At any point the government could subpoena who's received pushes (or at least, who's registered to) from both Google and Apple.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    I’m not the developer, but I do also write app backends for a living so I know there is some nuance that you’re skipping over in your response. But if you have a way to do this completely anonymous on android I’d suggest offering help to the developer who made this.

    Something that... links it to the device? Like, a unique ID that Apple can identify?

    APNS tokens are linked to the app install and renew on a certain timeline. Already making them not exactly the same as a device identifier.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    No, you're right, GOOGLE will take the device identifier, but him talking about how he would need to store it, and especially for channels where he talks about user names and passwords really makes me think that he thinks he personally has to do it, with his own backend storing it. (edit: The point is, that he doesn't HAVE to do it this way. You can, and it gives you more control, but you can let Google do it all. It's never anonymous with anyone though.)

    Apple knows which devices have the app installed. They would be able to link that back to the device if it was demanded, even if it is a bit more obscured.

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  • Just figured I'd add Apples own documentation as well

    https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/registering-your-app-with-apns

    Apple Push Notification service (APNs) must know the address of a user’s device before it can send notifications to that device. This address takes the form of a device token unique to both the device and your app. At launch time, your app communicates with APNs and receives its device token, which you then forward to your provider server. Your server includes that token with any notifications it sends.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    There is side loading, they can just release it on GitHub.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    That’s not how push notifications on android work.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That doesn't have anything to do with how you install the app.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It has to do with receiving notifications from the app in a privacy-preserving way. Unless the app is running with a server connection 24/7 (RIP battery life) you need to rely on the OS to deliver notifications.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You don't, there's privacy respecting ways of delivering notifications in android.

    Also, a 24/7 connection to a server isn't nearly as bad as you might think.

    The connection isn't active the whole time, it only uses any significant amount of battery if there's actually data being sent or received. You likely already have quite a few of them anyway, how do you think systems normally listen for push notifications?

    Besides all that, I read in other comments that the privacy issue was the device id firebase needs. Obviously apple also needs some kind of device id, otherwise how do they know where the notifications are going?

    Did some searching, yup apple also needs a unique identifier:

    When it’s time to send a notification, you generate a request that contains the notification data and a unique identifier for the user’s device.

    From https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/setting-up-a-remote-notification-server

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's 1000% possible to use android apps without involving Google in any way.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Edited for further clarification. It’s not about Google, it’s about what Android needs to receive notifications: https://www.iceblock.app/android

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    It's really hard for me to understand how iOS is better in this sense. The only way to get this app is via the app store and the ONLY way to use the app store is be registering yourself with apple. Seems to me that you are tracked either way.

    IMHO the devs probably wrote this in Swift and just don't have experience working with android. Whole thing/story is just off IMO.

    I'm really just sceptical about the whole thing being closed source really.

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  • [–] 57 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This app sounds exceedingly useful to me.

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  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Twenty years ago tracking armed thugs in ski masks would have been called a public service.

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  • [–] 78 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Shouldn’t be an app. It should be a site accessible using vpn and private browsing with an appropriate browser. Nobody should have to worry about the Stasi finding the app on their phone regardless of the situation.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    While this is true, most people are not so tech savvy, maybe giving an option to mask app Icon to user choice can help it hide better.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago

    This gives honeypot vibes. IOS only with no way to access via browser?

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago

    if they're worried about being tracked maybe they could do the easiest thing in the world which is not being complete shitheads?

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  • [–] 95 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Was curious so Iooked up the app's site.

    Apparently the devs claim they can't release it on Android because "There's no way to be anonymous on the play store", but it's even more impossible to be anonymous on the platform they've released. That's how you know the developer is incredibly stupid and/or shady as hell- because they've never even heard of Fdroid?

    Makes me think the app is a troll/trojan horse (not as in infection, trojan horse as in it has alterior motives)

    The Drumpf crew "losing it" over the app just makes it more questionable. They love to create a firestorm so people talk about the thing "they definitely don't want you to use!!" to get people to do things...

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    they mentioned that its because push notifications require device id and that would make it easy to be tracked if aubpoenaed.

    https://bsky.app/profile/iceblock.app/post/3lmzykc7rb42d

    edit: for the record i don't agree; i'm just saying what they said on bsky

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Push notifications though GMS don't use the device ID; they use a generated GCM registration ID that occasionally rotates. Who knows what Google uses internally to associate GCM reg IDs to users, but to overly state that it uses device IDs is simply not correct.

    I'm not suggesting push notifications are inherently secure because it's impossible to make that determination from the outside. But their assessment is incorrect and the same privacy concerns apply to Apple.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Seems like the kind of thing a defederated system would be good for...

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    If you mean something on fediverse: while that would be hard to take down or block, it’s far from anonymous

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  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago (12 children)

    I love how the Streisand Effect works. They just made this app the hottest thing out there.

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  • [–] 85 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    It's closed source, and the build and publishing pipeline isn't transparent.

    For me that makes this no different than a potential ICE honey pot

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    the honey pot for what? people who don't like ice? that makes no sense

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Secret police would probably have an interest in lists of people downloading an app tracking their movements no? Particularly if it was downloaded to a mobile tracking device they carry with themselves at most times.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    no I honestly don't know how this would help them

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Maybe they're looking for pretense for more authoritarian action on digital services/internet. We already have a bill in process that opens the door for government censorship of the internet right? They could be priming the public to be ok with them stepping in to shut apps/sites down.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago

    It's going to be filled with false warnings from MAGA idiots and trolls...

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  • [–] 42 points 1 year ago (11 children)
  • [–] 73 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

    No, and even worse, its only for apple devices lmao. These kids are so unserious in their activism it would be funny if it werent so sad. If shit hits the fan, this stuff will go down instantly and im sure it has no backup plan for a Tor based or p2p service. Activists in the US should start using Briar. This situation is exactly what it was made for and people have to get their tech game up fast or they will be done for. Get a shitty 80$ android phone if you only have an iphone. Install a panic trigger app that will wipe the phone if you are in trouble.

    On ICEBlocks website it says:

    Modeled after Waze but for ICE sightings, the app ensures user privacy by storing no personal data, making it impossible to trace reports back to individual users.

    Which worries me, because if its closed source then thats a worthless promise and actually makes the app a perfect candidate for a honeypot or backdoor.

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  • [+] -19 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    apple is the majority of the market, no? so if e.g. a company wanted to get a product out for a client asap, apple would be the market to aim for.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Turn of your capitalism brain ffs. This is not the place for companies and markets. If there is a financial interest then the app is worthless by design. iOS is not a trustable platform for anything security related so obviously you shouldnt use it for anything that concerns your physical safety. Dont forget, apple will always bend the knee to governments in the end.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I don't know, don't Apple have a reasonable track record of pushing back against governments? I personally have even less faith in the security of android based devices or Android phone manufacturers.

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  • Apple have a reasonable track record of pushing back against governments

    Only when it comes to individual consumer cases like terrorists or other crimes. When it comes to large scale political movements then they are very quick to lend authoritarian governments a hand, see for example their cooperation with the CCP to suppress the Hong Kong protests. But they have also always cooperated with police to some degree and this has only gotten worse.

    Forbes for the lack of a better source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2024/10/09/apple-sells-privacy-to-consumers-but-its-quietly-helping-police-use-iphones-for-surveillance/

    There’s a widespread perception that Apple has a combative relationship with law enforcement after the company refused to help the FBI hack into the iPhone of the shooter in the 2015 San Bernardino terrorist attacks. But since then, it has ramped up collaboration with police through the conference and other meetings with agencies at both Cupertino HQ and its Elk Grove campus, as well as a variety of previously unreported projects helping cops use iPhones, Macs, Apple Vision Pro and CarPlay, the emails show. Most of these projects have not been announced publicly.

    Apple declined to comment.

    People just love believing in Apple for some weird reasons.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You see "market" and think capitalism. By market, I meant, market-share. More users of apple products than android. So if a developer wanted greater reach...

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Android has the greatest mobile OS market share by a massive margin.

    But Apple users are far more likely to spend money on apps, making Apple the most lucrative target for mobile developers to target first.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Android has the greatest mobile OS market share by a massive margin.

    It’s my understanding this is true globally, but not for the US, where Apple has ~60% share.

    (This app should absolutely be cross-platform though)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    im not a developer or a genius but I'm pretty sure you can write an app once using a framework like react native or whatever and then compile it for both android and ios and optionally release them along with the source code used to compile them

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Is it apple only? Would love it on my droid if it's available.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    Lets build more ICE-tracking apps

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