Brave is essentially just Chrome with an adblocker, a bunch of bloatware, and a bunch of controversies.

Brave took BAT donations in YouTuber's names without their consent, with them keeping the money if the YouTubers didn't claim it. https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2019/01/13/brave-web-browser-no-longer-claims-to-fundraise-on-behalf-of-others-so-thats-nice/

Brave's search engine crawler hides itself from websites by pretending to be Googlebot, and Meta (Facebook) buys API access from them to train their AI. https://stackdiary.com/brave-selling-copyrighted-data-for-ai-training/

The business model of Brave rewards as a whole is to block all other ad networks to replace them with their own, which is unfair as only YouTubers and websites that have joined can make money from most Brave users.

If Brave actually cared, they would create an acceptable ads style feature which was free for everyone and allowed simple contextual banners while blocking ads which track you, take up most of the page, or have NSFW content.

Their approach is monopolistic as they have full control and can strangle YouTubers and websites by dropping pay at any time.

And Brenden Eich has said on Twitter that he plans to release "Brave Origin", which is a paid version of Brave without the bloatware. That name is ironic as he is admitting that his browser is commercialised and bloated, which is similar to when gorhill gave uBlock way to Chris Aljoudi who commercialised it, which led him to create uBlock Origin.

If you use Brave, ditch it and look at using Librewolf or Helium instead, which both include no ads nor tracking and don't have Brave News, Rewards, Wallet, Talk etc bloatware.

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[–] 93 points 10 months ago* (4 children)

I always use and recommend hardened Firefox + Ublock. As a search engine, I use Qwant, which is based in the EU and uses its own search engine whenever possible rather than Google, Bing, etc. And there is another reason not to recommend using Brave. Among its investors is Peter Thiel, the most controversial figure in the investment world. Search for Peter Thiel's controversial statements in your favourite search engine and you will see for yourself.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Consider a SearXNG instance. It can use Quant as a source, but balance across other engines to get the best results based on overlap (you choose the engines).

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    searxng is awesome.

    Only thing is that instances go down from time and it gets frustrating. I am not geeky enough to host an instance myself. So I just keep hoping one instance to another which is also not very convenient. How do I make most of searx?

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    Yea, running your own is definately the way to go. If you have Docker installed, you can run it on your local machine?

    docker pull docker.io/searxng/searxng:latest
    docker run -ti --rm --name searxng -p 8888:8080 -v "./searxng/config/:/etc/searxng/"  -v "./searxng/data/:/var/cache/searxng/" docker.io/searxng/searxng:latest
    

    That would run at http://localhost:8080/ and store all data and config persistent, and download the latest version (if needed) every time.

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  • [–] 36 points 10 months ago (16 children)

    I am pretty set with Firefox in Android and desktop to be honest.

    I cringe a little when users praise Brave as being the best ad-less YouTube solution (especially android users since we have revanced here!), no bro, there is no way using the web version of YT is better than revanced, or any other apps on mobile.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Their shields AdBlock is very good though, it's done in ram in a memory safe way, arguably doing it through an extension like ublock is not great. I can't wait until a project facelifts shields and puts it on top of an unbloated security focused chromium (or Firefox grows some balls and builds it in). Vanadium pls 🥺

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 8 months ago (1 child)

    Firefox (and threfore Librewolf) has enhanced tracking protection which is similar.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 months ago

    @FG_3479 @marcie @kratoz29I've been trying out Helium for the last month. It's still in beta but so far it's working well and works the way I want.It comes with ublock installed and just for an extra measure I installed priv badger and noscript.You can do a lot of tweaking in here too helium://flags/

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    I am pretty set with Firefox in Android and desktop to be honest.

    been using firefox since before it was called firefox, and netscape before that. while i do use 'other' browsers, too, their use is limited to testing and a few select sites or purposes only (for instance, i use a 'portable' opera for mail, and only mail).

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    And now Morphe too, continuation of the revanced project, and it's acually really good i have to say

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    ... This is how I found out about the Revanced situation... Oh boy I swear the open source community is one of the biggest ones that carries some drama 😂 (not saying this is bad, the switch is something totally justified).

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    I just saw a random post about it here and i switched since revanced isn't really getting updated, although i still use the revanced reddit bc it blocks ads, bit buggy but it works and i also have their pirated lightroom xd.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    On iOS it might be though, because there's no revanced and browsers can't have plugins so the only way to adblock is to use a browser that bakes it in.

    This means (afaik) Brave, DuckDuckGo or Opera. IME adblocking for youtube specifically is patchy with Opera, can't speak for DuckDuckGo.

    Or just don't use iOS. I don't much but we have an iPad for occasional use

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Orion on iOS has support for both Chrome and Firefox extensions. So you can use uBlock Origins directly. It’s made by the same developers as the search engine Kagi.

    Only downside is that it doesn’t sync with Firefox, if you use that on your desktop.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Firefox is becoming a shitty ai browser now. Consider waterfox or librewolf

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    For my needs I'm currently fine with it, also my mindset is... All those are FF forks, the enshitification of FF will eventually splash them, not to the same degree, but yeah, it can happen.

    I am too lazy to switch my CSS theme in ALL the OS I use too, for some reason this crap isn't synced automatically with FF Sync (just as some add-ons settings) I hate starting over, that is why I always bash on current backup/restore solution Android has (compared to iCloud) every time I get the chance lol.

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  • [–] 82 points 10 months ago

    Brave is the browser version of Honey. It blocks 3rd party ads and inserts its own, taking the money. Either block the ads or don’t but this is shitty.

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  • [–] 53 points 9 months ago (13 children)

    Honestly what do people have against Firefox that can't be fixed with plugins? It's the only decent browser that isn't chrome based, and I think that deserves support. And with plugins and sync it's a great experience.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    Firefox is great. Mozilla, however, is making some weird moves every now and then. A lot of people don't quite trust Mozilla to have their interests at heart anymore.

    The obvious solution is to use a Firefox fork. I have no idea whether there's a meaningful difference between the various Firefox forks, and would welcome a summary.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I switched to LibreWolf, which is a Firefox fork that prioritizes anonymity and privacy. I like it, but there are definite quirks:

    • it will tell every website your time zone is UTC+0, which breaks some stuff. Proton Calendar works if you tell it your actual timezone.

    • no password saving and cookies delete every session, so you have to log in to every website every time you restart. This is intentional but I don't understand the rationale. You can install a password manager though and self-host it if you want.

    • because your device fingerprint is generic, a lot of websites incorrectly assume you are a not. I have to use FF for GrubHub, for instance, as they won't play nice with LibreWolf due to restrictions on the HTML5 Canvas element, for instance.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    You can set exceptions for cookies on per site basis. I know because I also thought this for long time before finding it.

    Settings - Privacy & Security - Cookies and Site Data - Manage exceptions 

    One item off the annoyance list. :)

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    All of this should be configurable per site. Lots of sites do not need to know my timezone, location, cookies or fingerprint, but some do. I want to give sites I like, those where I've intentionally created an account, usually, permission to these things while denying it to every random article I happen to click on.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago

    Mozilla changed their privacy policy and terms of use about a year ago in ways that show they cannot be trusted. I think Librewolf offers more privacy/security features than Firefox can with plugins (disabling some canvas features that are used for fingerprinting for example). I think Firefox has some advertising/tracking crap enabled by default too (PPA API?). IDK, I just don't trust them anymore with their policy changes. Mullvad Browser is even more "hardened," but less convenient than Librewolf.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    For me it’s a combination of Mozilla making strange business decisions (removing of the “we never sell your data” policy) and the fact that a lot of websites take forever to load on Firefox.

    I’ve tried forks, LibreWolf pisses me off. Too many settings to change just to still have a broken browsing experience in the sake of privacy. If I need that level of privacy, I’ll use I2P/Tor.

    I hate the fact that chromium has won, but it’s getting difficult to avoid the fact that web developers don’t give a rats ass if the website doesn’t work well on Firefox.

    Brave was my primary for a while, but I switched to Vivaldi after reading about some of the BAT bait and switch.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 8 months ago

    I agree that LibreWolf's default settings are too strict as Mullvad Browser serves the best privacy niche, however all you have to do is turn off cookie clearing and ResistFingerprinting, then enable WebGL.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    My main browsers are FF or Zen (a fork of FF), but I think a lot of sites aren't able to work with just a plug-in due to how deeply they are coded for Chromium. Some of them being Amazon sites like Luna, Amazon Music, and Audible (pretty sure their other media sites/services also refuse to work if any hint of non-Chromium browsers are detected. I have run into non-Amazon sites with media or similar tell me to "update your browser" or "use a supported browser" (which is at least more honest than telling me that my FF is "out of date").

    While there are likely elements in some sites that actually can work with FF (I have had really random moments where I got part of a song to play on Amazon Music but then gives the "browser is out of date" message). The Chromium focused coding is IE all over again. Just a self-fulfilling cycle of making it look like FF is not as capable. And I hate that in the instances where changing the User Agent to be Chrome works, that it just keeps stats looking like Chrome and forks are what people are using (and might lead to seeming like FF is used less than it actually is).

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (1 child)

    I haven't encountered anything like that, but maybe that's because I wouldn't touch anything Amazon with a 2 metre stick

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    Not a bad stance. But they are a major provider of media that regular users might use. They also tend to be the people that would rather not bother with FF if they see it as "not as capable" and never leave Chrome. Which further feeds the goals of Google to be the default just like MS did with IE (but much more cleaver by providing the base for endless forks).

    MS fucked up by caring that IE was the "only" option and didn't push creating such a good base to have forks to keep their versions of "standards." Google did an amazing job at pouring money into getting Chrome past the early years of lack of mature features (and while they still had good will of helping to get people away from IE).

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  • [–] 44 points 10 months ago

    I never used it specifically because of it being run by Brenden Eich. I have no intention of knowingly throwing my towel in and helping to enrich someone who's thrown his money around to strip people of the right to marry who they want because he finds it icky.

    I'm sure there's other bad shit from him but after that I just treat him and anything he does as pure toxin.

    If that sounds harsh, well, I don't give a fuck.

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  • [+] 15 points 10 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Doesn't natively work under Wayland, unfortunately.
    As-is, it's not suitable for a touchscreen device.

    And with MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1 the window buttons are broken.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    mullvad also has encrypted dns that anyone (don't need to be a vpn subscriber) can plug-in to their browser or (compatible) operating system--including optional domain-level blocking (adult, social, gambling, and ads). yes, you can use a basic 'pihole-like' dns without needing to actually set one up.

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago

    Desktop = Librewolf, Mullvad and hardened firefox browsers. Strictly separating uses. Mobile (Android) = Cromite, Brave, Firefox and Tor. Again, separating uses.

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  • [–] 25 points 10 months ago

    After decades of being a Google fanboy and using nothing but Chrome, my bf proudly told me he'd installed Brave after he got tired of his favorite websites being nothing but ads. I wouldn't use it personally for the reasons you mention, but I think it's a positive step for some people.

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  • [–] 44 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    An extra reason: Eich is a homophobic asshole and an anti-masker

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  • [+] -9 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    ...and? Are you going to stop using the transistor?

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Man's dead.

    Don't matter what he thought when he's rotting in the ground.

    Does when you're still alive

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  • [+] -8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Oh I see, outrage of convenience.

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  • [–] 22 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    No.

    It's very simple: if someone is alive and holds detestable views, then giving them money gives them a chance to then use that money to lobby for their views. And in many many many many many cases, they do exactly that.

    If someone is dead and holds detestable views, they're unable to do anything about it (cause they're dead)

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    I personally don't use or like it. But nowadays I see it installed to people's phone. Which is thousand times better than chrome.
    People around me are too Brain washed to understand " install a Firefox based Browser and install Ublock origin "

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  • [+] 5 points 10 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (13 children)

    Helium has poor anti-fingerprinting.

    Firefox derivatives don't support google meet well.

    any better ideas?

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    I don't have issues with Firefox and Google Meet? What issues are you having?

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (3 children)

    Video effects randomly stop working sometimes, and frequently has choppy video

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (2 children)

    Huh, not something I noticed. Maybe I wasn't paying attention.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago* (3 children)

    For the Google-specific stuff, maybe just use a different browser that supports it? My current approach is multiple browsers, but minimize Google/Chromium as much as possible.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    I'm librewolf for primary

    using floccus for syncing so there's no accounts for anyone.

    I'm using a start menu replacement so i'm not sending traffic to the browsers default choice

    I tried a bunch of browsers a year ago, set them all up, and tried to use them daily.,

    Vivaldi is shoving AI and VPN up my ass, has week fingerprinting and only promises to subvert manifest v3 as long as they can

    Edge is bad and getting worse, plus giving data to MS isn't much better than giving it to google. also locks into manifest v3

    I give Helium credit for supporting manifest V2 still. I wish they did better with fingerprint randomization. But then again, I'm not even using Brave for anything but YouTube and Meet, so maybe the anonymization isn't a big deal.

    Brave is a shit company with a bad leader, but they have a fully funded dev team, and they block YouTube ads earlier in the pipeline before extensions get to them, so the manifest BS can't touch them. I turn off the VPN and BAT shit and don't use their default page.

    Librewolf is doing good randomization for me, and blocks still block. I'd use it exclusively if I could share a single tab's audio in meet and the camera and mic sharing worked every time in linux without 30 second timeouts.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

    If it's viable for you, slightly modified Mulvad browser + Searxing for search.

    Mullvad browser is a variant of the Tor browser, but rather than being used to connect to Tor, it's built on the stripped away version of Firefox that Tor builds. This means no 'phoning home' telemetry to Mozilla or Google. The only default connection Mullvad browser uses -- and this might be why I would suggest modifying it -- is the DNS gets routed through Mullvad. Nothing wrong with that, as they have some solid adblocking DNS servers. But: having a choice for that is good. The default should not be assumed.

    Searxing uses a number of search indexes that have been consistently effective when compared to commercial search engines, and it's open source and deployable on, say, a home server. There used to be some public instances available. Searxing is good.

    Were setting up a Searxing service for yourself somewhere not as viable, and you want to try a service that you pay for (rather than them using your data as 'payment'), I would recommend something like Kagi. They offer an interesting feature to their service, and this is why I suggest them: they have a privacy tokenized search, which valdidates but obsfucates you as a user when you make a search request. I think it is smartly engineered, and I can appreciate it for what it is.

    For privacy and security purposes, alike, I would avoid Zen and Floorp. They do not get security updates as often.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    The default should not be assumed.

    It should. Typically it would be a choice between Mullvad DNS and the unencrypted whatever your ISP uses. People who care about DNS (like me) will change that right away (NextDNS in my case). People who just want something easy may not even know what DNS is, or may not care enough.

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  • [–] 54 points 10 months ago (13 children)

    This is pretty nihilist to say, but we probably need to stop using what we're calling the internet today.

    The web is not the innocent platform it once was in the 90s and early 00s. Privacy is practically nonexistent and the workarounds like disabling javascript break so much of it that what's left is hardly usable.

    There's no worthwhile alternatives imo. There's no major competing internetworks or 'web browsing' alternatives outside of modern html/css/js... and there really should be.

    The internet evolved towards money making and nobody really stopped and made offshoots that are just cool fun things without the endless goal of capital.

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  • [–] [S] 68 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    The problem with the internet is not the internet itself, but the big tech platforms.

    By using sites like Mastodon and Lemmy, using a browser with uBlock Origin installed, and disabling Web & App activity, personalised ads, etc on your phone, you are taking a stand, and routing around the bad stuff exactly as intended.

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  • [–] 24 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    It just isn't enough man. We're still dependent on a handful of sources for everything. Adblockers break for me practically every single day.

    I don't have solutions. I just see privacy slipping away at scale and i'm afraid where we will end up in just a few years.

    We can't opt out of the system either because too much of it is necessary. Can anyone truly say they don't need google? ever? I stick to stuff like lemmy and I use duck duck go, but I don't think ddg is permanent.

    Everything just seems aligning for us to have digital IDs and fingerprints that are tracked with metadata and sold freely to any buyer with enough money. Combine that with technologies like flock and all the facial recognition tech everywhere, payment being basically completely digital today and sold/shared to anyone willing to pay... and every move we make is completely tracked and known.

    We're at a point now where the tech used in The Dark Knight by batman to solve crime at the expense of everyone's privacy is here, and it's even worse. Nobody will destroy it because it's too powerful to make money and crush dissent. With how dire the political situation is and how they are literally telling us now to not believe what we see, instead believe what we say... i'm worried, like so many others are.

    No one person should have as much power as even a billionaire has, and there are so many who have more than that. The only end to tyranny is our lifespans, until that is no longer a limiting factor from technology.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago

    We can't opt out of the system either because too much of it is necessary. Can anyone truly say they don't need google? ever?

    Yes. I switched to Qwant some years ago, and about a year back I switched to Kagi. Haven't seen the Google Search page in years at this point.

    The only thing I use from Google still is YouTube. There are also alternatives, I've spent some time with PeerTube and found things I enjoy, and I don't mind supporting Nebula, which is also a nice platform. That said, I could probably just cut it all off. It frees up time to do something else.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Can anyone truly say they don’t need google? ever?

    Using Invidious or other front ends allows me to watch YT without Google tracking.

    My Gmail address is only used by as backup to access my own domain and I am ready to move that away from Google.

    I don't need Google.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago

    I'd say we don't need go go so far as to stop using the internet (there are open and free services we can use), but I'd agree that we need to reduce our overall internet usage as way to fight aginst the system. Many times, there aren't alternatives to things, and the alternative can be doing something else! Doing something with out life time that the corporations have been stealing.

    And the tech industry have become the main players int he economy and in many destructive and unethical practices in the world, that by reducing our internet usage, we are working against them.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    We can still build small, text-based websites for free.

    I have built fileshare and chat before switching to OSS solutions, which I can selfhost.

    No adblocker needed, I can enjoy my part of the internet with people I care about.

    Also Wikipedia.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Not the Internet, but rather the World Wide Web. The once-humble webpage has become such a complex stack of technologies that it's impossible for small dev teams to make alternatives to the established web browsers.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago

    The 90s web isnt the same product the internet is today. Therefore you'll never get people to leave. Just like youtube and twitter. These are just new "cable." The only reason people had cable was for entertainment. We can start a new internet tomorrow but it will just be me and you and if thats what you really wanted, you'd be completely fine with that.

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago

    Don't forget that they used to add referral parameters to links you clicked so they got a kickback from you clicking things from anywhere even if they didn't make that link for you.

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  • [–] 26 points 10 months ago

    I won’t use a chromium based browser at all, especially Brave.

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  • [–] 20 points 10 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I posted this a year or two ago and got hit by a huge wave of furious Brave users lol. Occasionally to this day someone will stumble on it and post some tirade

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago

    I don't like Brave or the amount of bloat. Sadly what is missing from basically all Chromium forks is even basic browser anti-fingerprinting. The only other real example I can think of is Cromite, which is what i recommend people use instead of Brave.

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  • [–] 29 points 10 months ago*

    I remember Brave was popular among MAGA-type people during Trump's first term. I suspect it's likely the same.

    The logo has a striking resemblance to one I remember seeing on a big pro-Trump community. It's described here https://www.vox.com/2019/8/29/20838289/trump-fascist-lion-head-bull-testicles-video-twitter basically the logo is associated with Mussolini.

    In addition if you check the Wikipedia article you'll notice this:

    In August 2016, the company had received at least US$7 million in angel investments from venture capital firms, including Peter Thiel's Founders Fund, Propel Venture Partners, Pantera Capital, Foundation Capital and the Digital Currency Group.[13]

    Moreover some right-wing type people expressed their "solidarity" with Brendan Eich for his anti LGBT stance so they used Brave.

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