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[–] 356 points 10 months ago (17 children)

what if we cannibalize our long-term viability for a short-term gain says every dipshit in charge of tech hardware manufacturing.

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  • [–] 188 points 10 months ago (9 children)

    you know when the bubble pops and they no longer have AI companies buying RAM they will switch back to consumers and keep the high prices.

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  • [–] 135 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    if they're still around when the financial shell game they're playing finally comes to a stop. who am i kidding the government will bail them out.

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  • [–] 95 points 10 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 23 points 10 months ago* (2 children)

    if the US government were actually funded by taxes, then everything the government does would be with "my money"

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Even if the government is funded by money printed by the central bank, it would still be funded with "your money". Every dollar printed dilutes your money by that same amount, ie it's like a much more subtle tax that doesn't follow any of the principles of proportionality, everyone pays the same (except those with little to no liquidity and everything invested, so it's really a tax on the poor through inflation)

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago

    That only works if we (the collective we) have more money. If a rich person has more $$ than a small country that means the effect we have is equivalent.

    That's why micron is doing what its doing. We are no longer the customer. They voted for us.

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  • [–] 45 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Every business is doing this for everything. To different degrees but they are all chasing their “get our fortune now and get the fuck out because the sky is falling” mentality. Have been since Trump 1.0 and now it’s accelerating rapidly.

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  • [–] 19 points 10 months ago

    You have to remember that "get that bag" is practically inherit to business. We spend a lot of time and effort making it illegal to fuck people over and do bad business stuff, but kinda-sorta since Regan the businesses have slowly been winning that battle.

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  • [–] 27 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    That's every company, most upper management don't stay in one position for more than 2 years. So the system is setup for short term gains because investors aren't interested in long term investments and the blowback is the next guys problem. Who then is looking for the next big win to cover up the last guy issues without fixing anything. Then they bring in someone to clean up the mess and the cycle starts again.

    Plus most consumers have short memories or don't have an alternative so their stuck. There are small groups holding on but for 75% of the world's population right now it's Android or iOS, AMD or Intel, AMD or NVIDIA, Samsung or WD or Seagate or SanDisk, Att or Verizon, Apple or Microsoft, and so on.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago

    That's every company

    Not every company, just most. Privately owned corporations aren't legally obligated to kill long-term viability for short-term gaing like publicly traded companies are.

    Many owners of privately owned corps are that dumb, but not all of them

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  • [–] 16 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Also your reputation. I had a Crucial SSD and was days from getting an identical one as a backup but then they said they were stopping consumer RAM sales so they're now on my blacklist.

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

    Question is, though, who now isn't on your blacklist?

    Samsung and SK Hynix never sold to consumers directly, yet seem to be avoiding flak. Micron is now joining them in that.

    Who do you get that isn't that three? Almost all RAM on the market is Samsung, SK Hynix, or Micron.

    On top of that, Samsung and SK Hynix were the ones that signed the OpenAI deal (OpenAI bought 40% of the world's DRAM supply and kicked off panic buying), so tbh Micron is the least responsible for the current DRAM market issues.

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  • [–] 157 points 10 months ago (11 children)

    Makes sense. CPU/Mobo/RAM typically go together in a rebuild. Storage, case, PSU, perepherals, GPU can often carry over between builds as they're all pretty backwards compatible.

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  • [–] 80 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    Yeah. This makes pretty good sense. Make some ram and SSDs - lowee the price - and I'm sure Motherboard sales will go up.

    It's funny how people don't want to buy motherboards without anything else

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  • [–] 66 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    I only change motherboards when moving up to the next RAM format or CPU chipset. I stick with AMD due to cost and low thermals, and while their CPU generations shared the same interface I had one mobo for DDR3, one for DDR4, etc.

    Can't wrap my head around constantly upgrading the mobo to be honest. Sure, they have lots of features but I haven't seen a situation where a mobo would be an upgrade worth doing without also upgrading everything else.

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  • [–] 44 points 10 months ago* (2 children)

    Just use Intel CPUs and you'll understand, as they seem to invent a new incompatible socket every five minutes requiring a new mobo.

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  • [–] 26 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    That is part of why I have avoided them, far easier to mix and match AMD stuff to meet my price points since their sockets stick around so long!

    Each PC lasts me at least 5 years. I am three or so years on my 5800x3d with a 7090XT I picked up last year and the whole setup will probably still be rocking games past 2030.

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    The only time I've ever done that is during an upgrade chain that results in a motherboard not fitting into the case I need it to. Even then, the last one I bought was from a local used parts shop since I had an Intel 4670k I wanted to slap into a server.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    How often do you upgrade your computer? I do the same but without really trying, it's literally the case that by the time I start to feel I need a new pc there is already a new CPU socket, often several, and new ram format. I've almost never been able to actually reuse stuff. I imagine the only scenario where I could do that would be if some component straight up broke

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Maybe every 5 or so years, and generally there has been something worth upgrading the mobo for like new connections for storage. So far it has been when it struggled with 75+ FPS in games that I care about at the settings I want.

    Since it is so spread out I can't say it is a solid pattern, but so far each CPU and mobo upgrade have been together with a new set of RAM and occasionally I get extra RAM in between. Hard drives/SSDs and GPUs are whenever but generally they are years apart too.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago

    Yeah but it's like the gearbox. While everything's pulled apart, you may as well swap out the clutch, bearing, and flywheel too because they'll need replacing again first. Especially if better versions of them are now supported.

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago*

    because youd only swap mobos for either aesthetics(expensive, not often done) at best because you choose to downsize, or because you need more pci-e I/O.

    the average user doesn't use all their pci-e i/o, and the ones that do, are looking towards workstation motherboards, which is almost a completely different market from the consumer level stuff. It's a game of, you know when you need more i/o, and if you needed it, you probably would have never bought the consumer level board in the first place.

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  • [–] 85 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    On the plus side, indie games that don’t require a rocket ship for a PC have never been better. So, can still play some good stuff on my old clunker. Thanks to Steam/Proton, they run even better on my old computer.

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  • [–] 46 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Would be nice to see the gaming industry pivot back to making innovative games within the constraints of hardware, instead of just expecting customers to throw ever more powerful (and power consuming) hardware at it.

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  • [–] 19 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    As much (well deserved) hate that Nintendo gets, they are fantastic at this. They seem to be able to make games look good on low powered systems with stylistic decisions and smart optimization/coding. They learned some pretty important things in the NES/SNES era about using tricks to squeeze performance out of the few KB/MB they had to work with.

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  • [–] 62 points 10 months ago (11 children)

    It's such a shame to see high-performance computing and gaming more broadly become largely unaffordable. Hell, prior to the DRAM shortage, the current-generation game consoles were already MORE EXPENSIVE than they were at launch. And it's just going to get worse.

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  • [+] -86 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    None of this is "high performance computing". Are you simulating nuclear explosions? Airflow around supersonic aircraft? Sequencing DNA?

    This is all entertainment, it's useless, it turns people into potatoes. Digital garbage to make AI fat people fart videos.

    Good riddance I say.

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  • [–] 61 points 10 months ago (12 children)

    At least people aren't buying at these high prices, wouldn't want them to stay there after all.

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  • [–] 44 points 10 months ago (11 children)

    This is a good point, we don't need PCs to be this expensive.

    I just hope we don't fuck up the whole thing and end up with cloud computers or end up not making new PCs..

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  • [–] 32 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    I'm pretty convinced this is the play. Drive up DIY PC parts then promote thin cloud clients as a way to have a PC without paying the crazy prices that they set. It's a lot easier to tell you "it's safer for the children" and pillage every file, action, and keystroke for AI training and data brokerage. Your owned PC is a black box for them and it's their wet dream to own it for you... As a subscription of course.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago

    While it might actually end up going that way, I don't think that's a deliberate play. The tech bros and C-suite execs tend to be sociopathic dumbasses. I think they're legitimately just loading themselves up with tons of debt just to buy hardware to capture market share thinking that things could never collapsed on them.

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  • [–] 26 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    5 years ago I would’ve called you insane, but with everything happening right now… it’s a distinct possibility.

    RAM’s unaffordable, GPU’s will likely be harder to come by and more expensive. Microsoft is actively driving people away from Windows, Steam is launching their Steam Machine…

    Here’s hoping many gamers will jump to Linux and grow that platform instead. But even then, too expensive hardware will be an issue.

    We’re living in interesting times.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    I would have called myself insane five years ago too!

    Yeah, jumping to Linux could help a bit. I did that a couple of years ago, but that was more because I couldn't upgrade to Win 11 on my almost a decade old PC. Now I'm glad I couldn't upgrade to Win 11 haha.

    I had a laptop with Win 11 tho but I never got used to it and don't want AI and shit in any of my computers so I jumped over to Linux on that to.

    Maybe Steam will save the day with the Steam Cube? Isn't that pretty much a normal gaming PC?

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  • [+] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    Computer with cloud-based subscription sounds like a great example of enshittification.

    I might prefer no PC over that. Ew. I mean, the libraries have PCs you can borrow if I'd really need to use one.

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  • [–] 53 points 10 months ago (15 children)

    I went from thinking about a full rig upgrade, to just buying the best used processor and GPU my am4 board could handle with my current PSU and ddr4 ram.

    Went from a ryzen 1600x and a Nvidia 1060 to a ryzen 5 5600x and a Radeon rx 6600 xt. I'll be able to ride that out for a few years no problem.

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  • [–] 22 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    I went from thinking of upgrades to enjoying my backlog of old games. My wallet and library are both happy and I'm enjoying the games I'm playing.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago

    same. I have over 300 games in my steam library that i've bought over the years and the vast majority of which I never launched. So now i'm going through them. combine that with finally getting retroarch/libretro all PROPERLY set up I've also got a shit ton of roms from various consoles to play also, games I couldn't afford as a kid.

    Like right now I'm FINALLY playing Ocarina of Time for the first time ever and it's a blast, now I understand why people love it so much. Also started playing New Vegas and System Shock on the PC which I've owned for years and never played and both those are great too. New Vegas is REALLY fun.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago*

    funny i bought exactly the same CPU and GPU half a year ago. Someone in my city sold these for 200€.

    I was going to go for an AM5 board and everything, but couldn't afford it. My older parts were from 2016 and not even terrible. Its funny how little the hardware requirements have changed in the games and OS area. I am still using the same 16g RAM and PSU from 2016.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Nice, had a nitro 6650xt, can't recommend enough if it makes sense financially

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  • [–] 4 points 10 months ago

    Paid under $200 for it and it punches well above the 1060 I've been using. Wanted a Radeon because they play nicer with Linux and this card is the beefiest AMD I could go without having to also buy a new PSU. Also couldn't go much nicer anyhow or I'd be creeping up on games cpu limited, so it pairs nicely with the r 5 5600x. So for me and my particular set up it made for a nicely balanced hardware and cost choice. After this it will just be time for all new hardware in a few more years.

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  • [–] 51 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Burst the fucking bubble already. I'm edging so hard right now.

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  • [–] 18 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    It's a play to make at home compute unachievable, forcing people to pay for subscription cloud services and cloud compute in walled gardens.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago

    I don't agree. The prices will rise across the board no matter where you site the memory or if it's in a gaming computer or otherwise. Renting will always be more expensive than owning because competitors must recoup the capital cost of buying and make margin at the same time.

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  • [–] 42 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    This is hilarious. Intel after many years finally fixed their manufacturing process, but won't be able to sell chips because of memory crunch

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  • [–] 41 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Or gpu prices or hdd/ssd prices that never recovered from the tsunami. Consumers just keep getting fucked.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Prices don't generally recover; any reason for a price rise is a reason to make it the new norm.

    Used to be, competition would spring up and keep them in check, but now that the entire market is 6 companies in a trench coat, any new competitor would just be acquired or forced out of business with legal demands or supplier tampering.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    These companies have been found guilty of collusion in other markets (lcd panels anyone?) so what you are saying while factually correct, is in fact because of the failure to address the post collusion market. A fine is paid and then business as usual. It's like a chicken vs egg argument except instead of just recognizing it doesn't matter and regulate a market properly we use it as perfect justification for doing nothing.

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    [–] 38 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    Next up: MSI, ASUS, ... are pulling out of the consumer market due to falling revenue causing major price hikes.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Here's to hoping that it increases pressure to break the cartels and start getting the ball rolling on more independent foundries.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Problem I see with new foundries is that the profit is still going to be selling to data centers. It would take a philanthrope like Marc Cuban selling meds at cost, selling at a loss to enthusiasts.

    Calling Marc Cuban a philanthrope feels icky, but he is doing a thing that I think is genuine.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    It doesn't matter as long a the supply continues to grow. It also helps make the rest of the world less dependent on a US hegemony that's now going sour. When investment firms are buying up so much inventory for data centers that aren't even operational, a big part of that exists as an excuse for market manipulation by the really big hitters that have their presence in those cartels anyway. Once they start feeding their own demise and market competition, they will back off pretty quickly and will likely saturate the market from the surplus inventory they are clearly hoarding under bullshit excuses to try to eliminate and buy up the nascent competition.

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  • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Do MSI and ASUS have enough corporate/enterprise sales to offset the loss of consumer demand? With the RAM companies the consumer crunch is caused by AI companies bidding up the price of raw memory silicon well beyond what makes financial sense to package and solder onto DIMMs (or even directly solder the packages onto boards for ultra thin laptops).

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  • [–] 36 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

    I fear they will pull a GPU and the storage prices will be permanently 50% higher after.

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  • [–] 17 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I mean, that's capitalism, right? The manufacturers see that their product is still selling at a 300% markup, why would they bring the price back down when they can just make more profit if/when costs for them come back down? Sure they might drop it a little to make it "look" like a good deal. Just like GPUs. They went from being $600 for high end, to being $2000. Then when they announced that the next Gen was "only" going to be $1200 everybody was like "Wow! What a great deal!"

    I hate this timeline. They just keep figuring out new ways to squeeze money out of me and ruining my hobbies.

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago

    This does seem likely, especially if it’s as the article claims and this continues into 2028. After 2 and a 1/2 years of triple digit profits nobody is going to be satisfied with a measly 14% or whatever markup they were getting before.

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