I remember when 8TB SATA SSD was $350
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This bubble is going to become the entire market, isn't it. Until it becomes too big to fail because 80% of the workforce is tied up in it. Then it is allowed to pop, costing the western world everything, all going into the pockets of the super rich, and we get to start over.
Then it is allowed to pop, costing the western world everything, all going into the pockets of the super rich, and we get to start over.
After the bailouts at the expense of the poor, of course.
That’s the entire point. It’s a scam.
Compared to crypto and NFTs, there is at least something in this mix, not that I could identify it.
I've become increasingly comfortable with LLM usage, to the point that myself from last year would hate me. Compared to projects I used to do with where I'd be deep into Google Reddit and Wikipedia, ChatGPT gives me pretty good answers much more quickly, and far more tailored to my needs.
I'm getting into home labs, and currently everything I have runs on ass old laptops and phones, but I do daydream if the day where I can run an ethically and sustainably trained, LLM myself that compares to current GPT-5 because as much as I hate to say it, it's really useful to my life to have a sometimes incorrect but overalls knowledgeable voice that's perpetually ready to support me.
The irony is that I'll never build a server that can run a local LLM due to the price hikes caused by the technology in the first place.
I’ve become increasingly comfortable with LLM usage, to the point that myself from last year would hate me. Compared to projects I used to do with where I’d be deep into Google Reddit and Wikipedia, ChatGPT gives me pretty good answers much more quickly, and far more tailored to my needs.
Please hate yourself, reflect on that and walk back from contributing to destroying the environment by furthering widespread adoption of this shitty technology. The only reason you seem to get "useful answers" is because of search engine and website enshittification. What you are getting is still tons worse than a good web research 10 years ago.
Basically you were taught to enjoy rancid butter because all restaurants around you had started tasting like shit first, then someone opened a rancid butter shop.
I do agree entirely. If I could use the internet of 2015 I would, but I can't do so in a practical way that isn't much more tedious than asking an LLM.
My options are the least rancid butter of the rancid butter restaurants or I churn my own. I'd love to churn my own and daydream of it, but I am busy, and can barely manage to die on every other hill I've chosen.
web search isnt magically going back to how it was, and its not just search engines its every mf trying tk take advantage of seo and push their content to the top, search is going to get worse evry year, ai did speed it up by making a bunch of ai images pop up whenever you search an image
problem is that the widespread use of (and thereby provision of your data to) LLMs contributes to the rise of totalitarian regimes, wage-slavery and destroying our planet's ecosystem. Not a single problem in any of our lives is important enough to justify this. And convenience because we are too lazy to think for ourselves, or to do some longer (more effort) web research, is definitely not a good excuse to be complicit in murder, torture and ecoterrorism.
I agree except for the fact that it's unavoidable
It's horrific, but its inescapable, the problem is not going away and while you're refusing to use LLMs to accelerate your progress, the opposition isn't
Don't get me wrong, anyone who blindly believes sycophantic LLM garbage is a fool.
Its taken 4 years to overcome my llm moral ocd - and its only because I need to start working, in a world where every company forces AI down your throat, there are many who simply have no choice if they want to compete
Also I'm kinda glad I can spend more of my useful energy working towards my goals rather than battling the exact minutiae without any sort of guide
The thing is: LLMs do not accelerate the progress of proper software development. Your processes have to be truly broken to be able to experience a net gain from using LLMs. It enables shitty coders to output pull requests that look like they were written by someone competent, and thereby effectively waste the time of skilled developers who review such pull requests out of respect for the contributor, only to find out it is utter garbage.
I'm sorry but this is simply incorrect.
What you are saying is true of pure vibe coding, but you get an insane net gain from using LLMs for sanity checks and as a general 'bootstrap' for a project.
Yes it will make mistakes, but if you can actually program well so as to understand when it is incorrect, it is incredibly helpful as a tool.
if you get a net gain, you are an untalented hack and shouldn't be let anywhere near SW development.
You are foolish, myopic and stuck on the wrong point about AI in the first place.
The problem with LLM bs is not that it's not as proficient as a human, that can be remedied with time.
The problem is that it's essentially evil demon tech being used to fuck us all over
You can hate me for using the demon tech, but do explain the logical reasoning behind your answer? It can be emotional reasoning though, no worries.
To me it is purely like the best search engine you could ever encounter (perplexity specifically) and the pro version is a benefit for my banking choice so I slowly got sucked in to using a paid version for "free"...
I would have been a luddite back in the day because I know exactly what it really means, and I stand with all workers.
I am not a crazy AI nut, I'd rather crack one. I specialised in AI at uni until 2021 and then my moral OCD kept me from even touching AI since. Until I started using it purely as a replacement for a google search, unless I knew what I was looking for already and forgot identifying info.
Would you rather spend hours searching about Linux issues and trying to decipher which package manager for which OS uses which commands has which packages to translate an applicable form of help to your installed system...
Or would you rather type a question explaining what you want as you would to a human?
~~I used to be googlese but then they destroyed it, I'm a qwant user now because I champion european tech and eventual real sovereignty from the united states of america. ~~
I know which exhausts me far less and allows me to focus on actual implementation and best practices using the limited time available to me on this earth but you do you.
You are foolish, myopic and [..]
Interesting choice of words for someone who doesn't see the fire under the pot they are having a "cozy warm" bath in.
Okay buddy. You're also in the same pot, there is no escape.
I would love to have a real rational discussion with you, but you're incapable of challenging your own preconcieved notions.
I am fully aware of the fire, we're all locked in to the pot, you're deciding to sink in and be steadily cooked by the water rather than try to catch a raft and escape.
That's fine, believe you're safer for it if you want, what do you think the correct course of action is?
Continue with liberal norms and believe you're doing 'good' because you avoid AI?
The pot has been boiling on a higher and higher flame for years, and will continue to boil - LLM cultism just shirks responsibility and accountability, which already doesn't come to fruition anyway.
I hate AI cultists and Peter Thiel more than I could ever hate you. I wonder if I hate them more than you do.
It's the difference between a pyramid scheme and an MLM: one of them has a product in the mix.
I heard a theory (that I don't believe, but still) that Deepseek is only competitive to lock the USA into a false AI race.
it becomes too big to fail because 80% of the workforce is tied up in it
In 2008, banking sector and auto industry needed bailouts for the investor/financial class. Certainly, there was no need to layoff core banking employees, if government support was the last resort to keep the doors open AND gain controlling stake over future banking profitablity in a hopefully sustainable (low risk in addition to low climate/global destruction) fashion. The auto bailout did have harsher terms than the banking bailout, and recessions definitely harm the sector, but the bailouts were definitely focused on the executives/shareholders who have access to political friendships that result in gifts instead of truly needed lifelines, or wider redistribution of benefits from sustainable business.
The point, is that workforce is a "talking point" with no actual relevance in bailouts/too big to fail. That entire stock market wealth is concentrated in the sector, and that we have to all give them the rest of our money (and militarist backed surveillance freedom) or "China will win" at the only sector we pretend to have a competitive chance in, is why our establishment needs another "too big to fail moment". We've started QE ahead of the crash this time.
Work force is relatively small in AI sector. Big construction, but relatively low operations employment. It displaces other hiring too.
When I built a PC a couple of years ago when I really didn’t need one, then over specced it just because. I’m very happy right now as the prices are insane, feel like I could sell the PC for more than it cost me which mental.
Cries in PC gamer
I'm glad I already have a good setup and shouldn't be buying anything for a good while, but damn it. First the GPU, then RAM, now SSDs.
Next step, modular desktops as a concept will die, probably.
I hope people like locked-down black boxes they can't upgrade and can't run their own OS on in the future, so byebye Linux and BSD in that scenario outside of niche devices.
At the same time, just expanding a device with new parts is a far cheaper way to get more performance than buying a new device - after all, whatever price problem there is with some kinds of parts, it will be the same whether they're sold as lose parts or as part of a device.
Poor working class young me in a poorer European country after getting his first PC quickly found out that to get a more powerful machine he had to start upgrading that machine because there wasn't money to buy a whole new one every couple of years.
My point is that this might very well yield the very opposite effect of what you describ: buying whole devices to replace older models becomes too expensive so people favor more expandable devices - because those can have their performance improved with just some new parts, which are cheaper than getting a whole new device - and the market just responds to that.
I think most people in countries which until recently were wealthier, such as the US, are far too used to the mindset of "throw the old one out and but a new one" which is not at all the mindset of people in places were resources are constrained or require a lot bigger fraction of people's income to buy (certainly my experience living in the UK after having grown up in a country which was much poorer left me with that impression: the Brits just felt incredibly wasteful to somebody who like me grew up in a situation were "gettting a new iPhone every 2 years" was the kind of think only a rich person or a stupid person would do).
whatever price problem there is with some kinds of parts, it will be the same whether they’re sold as lose parts or as part of a device.
didn't actually read the article, but the Micron/Crucial announcement was about leaving the DIY direct market, as opposed to not keeping supply deals with OEMs. Though new contracts with them will be higher.
what's baffling is that modular desktops are probably a better long-term money making strategy for hardware makers. When you can cycle gear with ease - the temptation to try something new will be bigger.
What makes you think that? Even as prices rise, people are still buying and building PCs.
Eventual discontinuation of more PC parts to appease the AI grifters until all that's left for consumers is mini PCs or ARM black boxes.
But that hasn't happened at all and there's no evidence of that happening? To my knowledge at least. If you have some I'd love to see it.
Chinese companies are most likely going to fill at least some of the void that the other companies will be leaving to chase AI hype. It won't necessarily be cheap though.
The AI builders must be buying all the fab time and components to go to the build outs.
Desktops will go first and fade as the entire production chain stops.
Notebooks will be next, at least PC parts have a premium price, notebooks are too cheap to avoid it for long. Game consoles will face the same pressure.
The supply shock is going to be as bad as COVID.
You could just run Linux on a 2009 thinkpad. Oh no, I will have to buy even cheaper machines to run Linux.
I ordered an S10 tab, paid my first rate, they finally try to order it, inform me it's gone from the page, and try to get me to pay MORE for a weaker device.
I refuse, ask for a refund, and that is how I got screwed over last moment from owning something I need, just before the crash.
Yet another chapter in the fucking AI craze started up by them fucking techbros.
Also, someone forgot that in some places in the world, people have to use older PCs with SATA drives. That, until their discontinuation announcements, Crucial and Samsung SATA drives were several tiers better than, say, those cheapo Ramsta drives.
Discontinuing outdated tech has nothing to do with AI. SATA SSDs need to be retired. NVME is superior and widely available.
Especially since you can get M.2 to SATA adapters, so people stuck with SATA only motherboards can still upgrade their storage.
Literally the same deal when companies stopped making IDE drives, people just used SATA to IDE adapters instead.
Do you know of any m.2 to SATA adapters that support NVMe? Or are these only for Sata M.2s?
Man, it sure would be helpful for my argument if I could.
I went back and checked the ones I was looking at, very helpful fine print stating "not for NVEM ssds", so they all only work with mSATA M.2 SSDs, hell of a let down.
Despite how similar the interface is the protocol is completely different. NVMe is basically just PCIe, so adaptating it so that it runs "under" SATA would be difficult if not almost impossible. And most definitely not worth the extra price.
Well no you can translate, but it just seems that nobody has actually made a product to do so.
e.g. those M.2 SSD to USB adapters, those aren't speaking NVMe to the host device. They either talk the traditional USB "bulk transfer" protocol, or potentially SCSI, translating that to NVMe for the SSD itself.
Damn... I was hoping you were aware of things that I had missed...
Anyway, if you run out of M.2 NVMe slots on your motherboard there are still options, since NVMe is just PCIe:
https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Converter-Reader-Expansion-Internal/dp/B0BK2R7T57
AI has taken more things since it's big push to be adopted in the public sector.
Clean Air
Water
Fair electricity bills
Ram
GPUs
SSDs
Jobs
Other people's art and writing.
There are no benefit to this stuff. It is just grifting.
What if we get a lack-of-new-computers-crisis before the AI-bubble bursts
Don't worry, you can use AI on anything that can access the internet! No need to ever have personal (let alone private) thoughts - I'm sorry, data - again.
MS has been trying to get you to give up your personal computer for years. Do everything in the cloud, please! Even gaming with Stadia! And now they're getting their wish. All it took was running the entire global economy.
I have 4x 6TB HDDs in my NAS. Around 5 years ago I decided to simply replace any dead drives with 6TB ones instead of my previous strategy of slowly upgrading their size. I figured I could swap to 8TB 2.5" SATA SSDs that had just started to exist and would surely only get cheaper in the future...
M.2 to sata converters will probably come to your rescue. But probably not as cheap as you were hoping.
In my head I thought one could make relatively cheap high capacity in 2.5" SATA form factor by having more NAND chips of lower capacity. You give up speed and PCB space but that's fine since bandwidth and IOPS are limited by SATA anyway and there's plenty of space compared to M.2.
Turns out to not shake out that way, controller ICs that support SATA aren't coming out any more, and NAND ICs are internally stacked to use up channels while not taking up PCB space.
There are some enterprise options, but they're mad expensive.
My mind forgot that M.2 is probably more prevalent these days and that they’re not just shutting down for no reason.
The ai crash is going to slap the tech industry hard
Not just the tech industry. A huge proportion of the US economy is made up of betting on AI. Like the crash of 2008 (but worse, some predict) it will hurt everyone but the richest, who will become even richer.
There are a number of simultaneous bubbles at the moment, the AI one being a lot like the Internet bubble of the late 90s but possibly worse (bigger share of GDP and it seems there is actually less value in most of the tech invested in as "AI" than on the Internet-related tech) and at the same time there is a financial debt bubble like in 2007 (in the US mainly around loans for car purchase, but more in general overall consumer indebtness has reached the 2007 levels), a worldwide realestate bubble (measured in terms of house-price to income ratios) and a stockmarket bubble measured in terms of P/E ratios, just to mention the biggest ones.
The risk is that when one blows the rest blow by contagium: something the 2008 Crash showed us is that in modern markets when there are sudden large losses on a asset class it pulls money over to cover them from all other asset classes, in turn creating downwards price pressure in those other asset classes, which in turn might cause price collapses there with large losses and that will pull even more money out from other asset classes. IMHO assets classes with historically high valuation not backed by fundamentals (for example stocks with P/E which are 10+ times the historical average) are likely to be far more likely to collapse when money gets pulled away from them to cover losses elsewhere. Also there is the panic factor: fearing exactly what I describe, many investors will preemptivelly sell their assets in those assets classes they feel as more speculative - i.e. less supported by fundamentals - possibly creating the very problem they fear in those markets by starting a stampede to the exits.
All this to say that I expect this one when it blows up will be bigger than 2008 and 2000, possibly bigger than both of those combined.
Going by inflation adjusted market cap values, it certainly looks like the financial facet of the AI companies alone are bigger than both those events.... This is going to be beyond messy...
Is there anything a normal person can do to insulate against it to any degree?
Just bought 2tb for $89.
I just spent $200 on a Samsung 990 Pro 2TB :/
I'm finally swapping my main PC to Linux full time and ended up buying an entire new boot drive rather than dealing with shuffling files around to make space.
I did similar when preparing my wife and I for windows 10 EOL. I went back to Linux on the new drive, my wife to Windows 11. Honestly both have a similar amount of issues (mostly wake from sleep challenges on Linux, although my PC wasn't great about waking from sleep on Windows to begin with) and most importantly my wife can still play Fortnite and I can have fun trying new stuff out and reveling at how every single game I try just works on Linux whereas 5 years ago it was more of a 50/50 chance whether or not a game would work
I bought exactly that one for my linux box (because I swapped mains to linux and wanted a big boot :-) ), but that was a while back, it's 280€ now, so $328...
Nice, where'd you get that deal?
More importantly, what brand, type and/or specs. It's easy to get cheap disks with crap performance. I have a few around that we quickly dubbed "Super Slow Disks".
https://www.shopmyexchange.com/
For vets. No taxes and shipping is free or a standard $5 charge.
Nice, that's awesome.
The leak comes after another report detailed that Samsung has raised DDR5 memory prices by up to 60%.
MF.. And why they wind down SSD production this time? Last time was 2 years ago, because the SSD prices were low and they wanted to raise them (which happened).
Because AI is better for €€€
May all bankrupt when the bubble bursts.
we all know as soon as big bad chip daddy comes back with a big discount everyone not in this thread (and even some that are) will spread their cheeks and beg for more.
humans are dumb greedy little assholes that have zero willpower. that's why it's so easy to manipulate us.
Tbh its not a bad call. Used to work somewhere that bought hundreds of 500gb SATA SSDs for laptop upgrades that just... sat on a shelf, because none of the new laptops ordered could even take a SATA drive. Hell, they're Crucial branded so they're probably collectable if micron keeps crucial dead for long enough.
That sucks. They probably could give them out to employees as a little bonus thing. Build a bit of goodwill. Rather than have them sit on a shelf.
Government. Ain't nobody want to get caught "stealing" from the government (they're probably going to be destroyed ten years after they're completely obsolete). Waste of damn near a hundred terabytes of storage.
And then most people won't know what to do with it, possibly flooding the helpdesk with requests.
It would have to be a voluntary thing, not just handed to everyone. "Put your name on this sheet if you want one."
Why would ending sata ssd production create price pressure for m2 ssds? If anything, they should be able to produce more of those.
AFAIK this has already been a problem, you can find Samsung M.2 SSDs for cheaper than Samsung SATA SSDs at the same capacity, because their cloud customers have all flown past classic SATA/SAS for NVME U.2 and U.3, which is much more similar to M.2 due to NVME.
I was planning on adding a big SSD array to my server which has a bunch of external 2.5 SAS slots, but it ended up being cheaper and faster to buy a 4 slot M.2 PCIe card and buy 4 M.2 drives instead.
Putting it on a x16 PCIe slot gives me 4 lanes per drive with bifurication, which gets me the advertised maximum possible speed on PCIe 4.
Whether or not the RAM surge will affect chip production capacity is the real issue. It seems all 3 OEMs could effectively reduce capacity for all other components after slugging billions of dollars into HBM RAM. It wouldn't just be SSDs, anything that relies on the same supply chain could be heavily affected.
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