Theory - mass media creates the narrative that witches in the US are Devil worshippers, often with a pretty manly depiction of the Devil, thereby trying to enforce that they “derive their power from their relationship to a man”.
post
I remember this happening when I was a teen, and there are still many women I know into it.
My mother was a self proclaimed witch since the 80's/90's, and told me as a child fairies were real, and constantly told me I "had psychic powers." She read my cards and all that. It fucked me up wholly, and pushed me to science and fact. It's not for me, and I don't understand the fascination. But, if it makes other women happy, it's really harmless.
Is this just girls?
Am boy, had a witchy phase
Are you... Gerald?
Same. We exist.
I had a few friends who introduced me to the topic. I've never cast a spell, but I learned a lot and really took to heart the end of the Witches' Rede: "An ye harm none, do as ye will". Which is empowering and generally fits in with the laws of the land.
Since that phrase has been a cornerstone of my personal philosophy, I'd call myself a witch.
Not witchcraft but, I went through a "try to train hard enough to get Dragon Ball Z powers" phase for similar reasons.
I'll say it: adult witches are hot
Too bad there aren’t any since witches aren’t real
because being in a coven with amazing women is preferable than being near high school boys.
Isn't it assumed that witches get their power from the devil?
"I don’t hold with paddlin’ with the occult,” said Granny firmly. “Once you start paddlin’ with the occult you start believing in spirits, and when you start believing in spirits you start believing in gods. And then you’re in trouble.”
“But all them things exist,” said Nanny Ogg.
“That’s no call to go around believing in them. It only encourages ‘em."
Terry Pratchett knew how it works lol
This is new info to me, so not sure who else, but Paganism isn't a single system. It's anything the Christians were trying to erase in Europe. The wildly varying descriptions occur because it was just the negative terms applied to any other group. Going to church is a ritual. Consuming eucharist is a ritual. Priests are channels to their god. Hyms are chants. Prayers are incantations. All just negative terms applied to the out groups.
Yeah, I didn't want to disempower women, or anything like that. I know that this was merely the christiannarrative of witches.
Kind of interesting, though that the male-centric christian church had to invent a male figure which gives the witch her power.
When Ezekiel raises the dead, it's a blessing from god. But when I do it...
When I was a kid girls went through a horse obsession phase. Boys had one with cars or dinosaurs.
Meanwhile wizards: "BEHOLD MY STAFF OF POWER", "I'm pondering the SPHERES", "KNEEL BEFORE MY MIGHTY ROD".
Jokes aside, that is a culture thing - if my rather tattered memory serves, historically, a lot of magic was pact magic (asking someone else for power in exchange). Necromancy was a little different (before its conflation with "nigromancy" by the church in medieval times) and in its earlier incarnation generally involved a "descent" into the underworld via a gate (of which there were many) and so was almost "adventure magic". These ancient holy sites were venerated rather than shunned and, again memory is patchy here, generally held an oracle (i.e. a witch).
So, fun fact of the day, if you go caving in the right place you're technically a necromancer.
What's the go with necromancy/nigromancy? This is all new to me and sounds fascinating!
So, in essence, necromancy was (traditionally) a divinatory art (in short asking questions of the dead who were seen to stand outside time [the notions of time and mortality being intertwined]). Greek and Roman Necromancy by Ogden is a good text on the history here.
Nigromancy, translating to "black divination" (black as in dark/evil magic) was more to do with demonic pacts and spells focused around power (e.g. summoning a feast, calling up a castle, cursing to madness or death, winning the love of a woman). The text forbidden rites gives a good exploration of this from a historical perspective.
I will never willingly go caving, not after the nutty putty cave incident.
Caving is fine as long as you stick to places you can walk to and stand in. As soon as your feet leave the ground or your elbows touch it, that's your sign you've gone too far.
I just don't see a benefit in doing it in the first place. People who actually have some business to attend to in the bowels of the earth can go into caves - if you're a miner or geologist or something, feel free to walk right in. I'll stay right here outside and you can tell me all about it when you get back out.
There are a few large, stable, and very pretty caves that are worth visiting just to experience them. For instance, Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico is a popular tourist spot where you can either hike down to the best part of it or take an elevator. No chance of getting stuck anywhere on the guided path.
There's also something to be said about gaining power from the moon because it aligns with our bodies' natural rhythms as well.
Or, maybe because it's just cool. Might be a super controversial thing to say, but it's pretty much proven that boys and girls tend to gravitate towards certain elements.
So boys go through a phase where they are crazy about dinosaurs. Girls it's witchcraft.
This isn't a universal constant, however, as neither of my sisters have been into witchcraft, and I know one woman who's really into dinosaurs.
And sometimes it's both...
My 4 year old ran around in a dinosaur costume yelling "Abra Dabra" last week.
Girls going through a witch phase is no different than a boy going through a katana wielding mall ninja phase. Both are lame af.
The undead are safer to be around than a man.
Unfortunately false if I remember my mythology correctly. Aren't witches granted their power as a result of their deal with Satan?
Another comment above addressed this: the “power via pact with Satan” is how Christians present witches, but not really how witches conceive of themselves
I'd understand if I get skewered for this but people who don't leave the witchcraft stuff behind when they grow up are on par with disney adults and hardcore weebs. I used to think I could gather chi to perform powerful attacks but if I still thought that, people would rightfully make fun of me.
This opinion is gender neutral but I'm always afraid to express it because it might come across as misogyny.
I think there's a difference between "these rituals and metaphors help me deal with the struggles of the world" and "yo I totally hexed him that's why he got the flu".
The former is pretty harmless. Some people meditate. Some people lift weights. Some people draw cards from a deck and reflect on how they feel about getting The Tower when they asked about their boyfriend. It's just a lens to focus your thoughts.
There is a difference for sure but meditation and exercise are not really comparable since there's proven benefits, a closer comparison would be....religion. Consulting the deck is even sillier than praying because you get an "answer" every time which probably just reinforces your preexisting belief
I mean that's the whole idea, you don't create knowledge out of nothing. But it's more than just preexisting belief, you try to grab it from collective unconscious.
Plus, card on itself doesn't tell you anything SPECIFIC. The whole point of cards and magic is to believe that this specific card has bigger meaning, thus you need to interpret it, and think about it's meaning. And thinking is useful. What conclusion you come up with depends more on the situation than the card itself.
I’m not sure you understand witchcraft from the perspective of those that practice it. It sounds more to me like you’re talking about a caricature of witchcraft and pagan practices, rather than what most witches actually believe
Out of curiosity, if we're to dismiss the caricature you think might be at play here, what does define witchcraft? If it's just a set of mental disciplines that help someone navigate life then the term witchcraft itself seems to be somewhat grandiose.
I want to hear OPs answer too, but to chime in: what are most religions/belief systems if not mental disciplines to help people navigate life?
This thing seems to always be involved in this kind of stuff. Noted, of course, that many do that in uncool ways/with uncool impacts (reinforcing hierarchies that justify concentration of power, legitimizing harm to others, glorifying ignorance, etc.)
I have gone down the path of meditation an uncommon distance. Finding people to talk to about it is basically impossible. There is some common ground with consensual reality tho. And I try to do conversations there sometimes. It is generally frustrating. I should stop.
Others have elaborated further, but I'll give an example you can probably agree with:
If you're having trouble making a decision, you can flip a coin. This is actually really useful if you don't actually let the coin make the decision. If you're disappointed with the result, you then found out you liked the other result better, and you should do that instead. There's no magic. It's just a way to help ourselves gain insight into what we believed but we're having trouble realizing.
So it's less silly... to talk aloud to yourself... in a way that never provides answers..?
Yikes guy.
I love to collect herbs. But I hate to tell people about that because just after then, I ccan discover how much people love to believe in "cancer curing herbal medicine".
My father once suggested a toxic plant is great for health.
It sucks when a hobby you like is full of weirdos. I've been looking into both solar panels and getting rid of a lot of my lawn but SEVERAL times I've been watching a video and the host drops something about homeschooling or religion. I just wanted tips on growing potatoes, man.
RIP, same. I've sometimes dreamed about having some big-ass pretty garden and getting fruits and veggies from it, so my mom and I like to watch cool shit like people's giant greenhouse homes. And then you'll hear some tradwife and homeschooling shit in there and just get sad.
Honestly, I’d recommend talking to a landscape designer. If you find a good one, they can help you sort all that out, and at least all the ones I know are plant nerds first and foremost, and so aren’t too impressed with the tradwife performance gardening nonsense.
I don't know what the plant was, but both of those can be true (though be careful). "The dose makes the poison." Everything is poison in large enough quantities. A lot of toxic things can be very beneficial in smaller doses.
people who don’t leave the witchcraft stuff behind when they grow up are on par with disney adults and hardcore weebs
People with harmless hobbies? I see no problem with this. Why would a self-respecting adult care if others cringe at their interests?
This was such an online reply.
I'm saying it's weird that wirchcraft is "culturally acceptable" while the other extremely similar "hobbies" draw widespread derision.
I’m saying it’s weird that wirchcraft is “culturally acceptable” while the other extremely similar “hobbies” draw widespread derision
I think you said more than that. You said people would "rightfully" make fun of you, suggesting the derision is warranted.
But I don't expect them to care. It's not like I'm making fun of them to their faces, I'm just thinking "wow what a dork" when I see an adult obsessed with Disney movies
Pick your poison, witchcraft, zen, Christianity... Being able to see things the way a child sees them is an essential part and something you might want to work on.
I'm going to take a guess and direct you (and most readers) towards a Christian reading, but I assure you, this observation is made by almost all traditions, secular or otherwise, across almost all the world's cultures.
Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 18:3
(Edited for block quote)
i would add the following wisdom as well -
Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. C.S. Lewis
I’m not sure coming into a witchy community and shitting on witchcraft is going to get you a ton of agreement
Eh, the mind is a complicated thing. You have the conscious part, which experiences things and makes active decisions, and the subconscious part, which processes raw sensory data into categories that the conscious part can engage with. When you get a new car, suddenly you see the same make and model more than you did before. That's just the result of your subconscious assigning significance to that make and model.
Magick, properly practiced, is just a system of rituals and correlations to influence what the subconscious assigns significance to. Even things like visualizing your chi can help you move with focus and intention.
It's all just about moderation. People can atribute their mistakes to holoscope so that they won't dwell on it and move on, but to use it to deflect legitimate blame would be toxic.
I say this not because your mention sounds misogynistic but as if using societal acceptance as a bar to judge someone's hobby or ritual (religious or non-religious sense, not limited to witchcraft stuff).
Just something to think about: the next time you have a difficult task in front of you, 'gather your chi'. Do the breathing, feel your chakras spinning up, visualize that white light flowing through your body. Direct your 'chi' towards the task, then open your eyes and go. See how you feel about what you did by the task's end. Even better if the same task comes up and you don't do this so you can compare notes.
This is kind of the level this stuff works on for sane esoteric practitoners. Are you actually conjuring up something mythical? No, not really - you're psyching yourself up and/or shifting your focus using a psychological tool/metaphor. I personally find it hard to judge that too harshly - save that for folks doing the same thing for health problems without also doing evidence-based treatments.
That said, you're entitled to your opinion. Just be kind to folks you think are dorks if they aren't otherwise causing harm.
Shame that people feel they can't critique something they find silly for fear of sounding misogynistic. I don't think that's the kind of equality anyone should want.
who don’t leave the witchcraft stuff behind when they grow up are on par with disney adults and hardcore weebs
Try to think about it in terms of historical psychological therapy, tarot cards are a metaphor engine, like a Rorschach test, spells are CBT, and on and on, the themes are repeated. I'm misandrist, so IDGAF, pretty freeing, but I'd say those who stick with their childhood perspectives in adult life are either really cool or dreadfully boring. This opinion seems the latter, might want to look to that...


top 92 comments