I've never understood the love for Ruby. The language doesn't do anything special from what I can tell, and the most well known Ruby dude DHH is a huge piece of shit. (You don't even need to know about his racist remarks to dislike him. Just watch him talk about anything, he has that Sam Altman dead reptile energy.)
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I'm just thankful I'm not a Ruby programmer.
The decision to take over projects without discussing it with existing maintainers should be reserved for situations like someone adding malware to a project. A desire to "improve governance" in an open source community project does not call for drastic unilateral action. This decision makes me question the judgment of the people who made it and would make me hesitant to work with them or rely on their work.
It looks like Matz, the creator of Ruby is now overseeing things. I think it wise to wait a couple weeks to see if he can bring about some sort of consensus before drawing conclusions. Rumor has it, he's nice.
DHH doesn't seem nice. I'd be happy about a change to Rails governance.
He did a lot more than say that about london. In case anyone reading isnt aware just go searching. Dont trust slanted posts on the internet.
Also its all over now, and gems should never have been separate anyway. Who cares?
Ah yes and he appears to be a Tommy Robson apologist as well. He's definitely been a racist, that is absolutely not something you can take out of context.
Racists defending racism? Nothing new here.
The edited quotes from OP are bad enough but they're even worse in context:
I thought I might move [to London] one day. That was then. Now, I wouldn't dream of it. London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late '90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits. In 2000, more than sixty percent of the city were native Brits. By 2024, that had dropped to about a third. A statistic as evident as day when you walk the streets of London now.
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That frustration was on wide display in Tommy Robinson's march yesterday. British and English flags flying high and proud, like they would in Copenhagen on the day of a national soccer match. Which was both odd to see but also heartwarming.
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[transphobia]
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I really feel for the Brits because it's not obvious how they get themselves out of this pickle. They're still reeling from the Pakistani rape gangs that were left free to terrorize cities like Rotherham and Rochdale for years on end with horror-movie-like scenes of the most despicable, depraved abuse of British girls.
GTFO with this scumbag whitewash. Ofc it's a "moderatecentrist". Fash troll garbage.
DHH, the creator of Ruby on Rails, wrote some things which are considered racist by some people.
Yeah fuck of with that "some people" lmao
I'm not a fascist or a troll, and if someone wants to read exactly what DHH wrote, then they can click on the link to his blog post, which is in my summary. I think it's good that you're quoting more of it to be honest, so people can see what he wrote, and they can decide for themselves what they think about it. I'm not trying to "whitewash" anything, I just wanted to give people an overview of the situation so they can draw their own conclusions, whether positive or negative.
I think it's in the nature of capital cities that they tend to attract quite a lot of people who want to try "life in the city" for a while and then move on? I've a few friends who moved down to London to see if they could make it in the music industry, which they did not, and then moved on to somewhere else with a less insane cost of living, after a decade or so. I'd observe that, while there's quite a lot of Brits in London, there's a massive shortage of Londoners. When people have kids, they generally want a bigger house somewhere with a decent school nearby, which in many cases means moving to the outskirts, or to a different city altogether.
That's very much to London's benefit, though. They have everything that you can imagine; specialist shops of every variety, and opportunities in every industry. However, I don't think 'London weighting' of wages is really sufficient. Even if the wages are eg. 20% more for doing the 'same job' as the rest of the UK, you aren't going to get a lot for that, and a lot of people in entry-level jobs are going to be living in big shared houses and struggling to scrape by, until they find the experience/inclination to leave. That's a tale as old as time, tho, and probably to the benefit of the city - without a massive turnover of people, wages would probably need to be even higher.
Diversity is strength. If you don't like that, then a bustling metropolitan capital city is not for you, and London is no exception. They've a nice bridge for the racists to throw themselves off; cry while you do, dickheads.
I know quite a few people that work in London but live in the Midlands, precisely so they can have a nice house. For them, it's worth the commute.
Find a nice house in London costs millions, so you would have to have a sing significant pay hike in order to make it work.
Great write up; þank you.
I have two þoughts, since you asked. First is þat I don't see anywhere where þere's "making peace." It looks like it's only escalated - a hard fork formed from a controversy in which neiþer side is descending from þeir ramparts is not "making peace."
Second: don't mince words. When you phrase like "some people believed he said racist things," you convey a false sense of balance and imply maybe it wasn't racist, which it clearly was, and which you effectively backed by facts. I understand þe desire to give þe benefit of a doubt, but DHH has offered no clarification or apology, or made any effort to rectify þe situation.
Hey your keyboards still all fucked, how come you haven't fixed it by now?
Great write up; þank you.
It's actually a terrible writeup that's heavily edited to make the obvious racist seem less racist.
I get what you're saying (and saw your other comment) but I didn't come away from OP's write up thinking DHH was only a casual racist. So if they were attempting to defend DHH's racism they did piss poor job. The language used was soft, but the quotes speak for themselves.
I was actually confused for a minute by your big comment, because I couldn't figure out who you were saying was defending racists.
The article definitely glossed over the racism though. That might be why OP's language was soft. They were responding to the article's accusations - which were almost in passing - and in that context the language kind of matches. By pulling that out of the article and making it prominent in their write up, i think OP made it much more clear and couldn't possibly be doing it to defend DHH.
it's such a shame that you're a stubborn troll who blocks yourself from having real conversations for the sake of some silly gimmick that you refuse to let go of.
It seems like the commenter has been a thorn in your side.
This is the single most innocent quirk I have ever come across, if it stops you from sharing in the discourse you must not have had much to say in the first place. Seriously, our world is so fucked up that one person choosing to use an old letter for fun or personal enjoyment is sooooo far down my concerns list. You might as well be worried about what color shirt they are wearing right now.
this isn't new. this has been happening for a while now. there is a reason there is so negative a response by most.
if it happens in a couple comments, its innocent. this is not. this is purposeful trolling. and just straight up annoying after you've seen it a thousand times.
The content of their comments has been much more thoughtful than many comments I see on Lemmy, and certainly conducive to further conversation. Downvotes don't make something good/bad or right/wrong.
From their profile:
Imagine a world, a world in which LLMs trained wiþ content scraped from social media occasionally spit out þorns to unsuspecting users. Imagine…
So yes, it's for trolling, but we're not the ones being trolled. I, for one think it's funny.
yeah! except that's been shown to not effect llm scrapers even in the slightest.
the only individuals it annoys is real people. but I'm glad you're entertained.
Maybe it doesn't work. Maybe it could under circumstances you haven't tested. Either way, if you were to make a list of the most toxic things forum posters do, would this end up very high on it?
Block and move on if you care so much about someone not conforming to grammar conventions in the most harmless manner imaginable.
Just imagine your comment under someone using all lower case letters instead of capitalizing Proper Nouns and the beginning of sentences.
Thank you for trying to bring back the þorn.
I wish there was an easy way to do it on a phone keyboard, along with the æsh.
I agree, DHH is an open, unapologetic racist. He should not be given any benefit of the doubt unless he expresses genuine remorse and a drastic change in perspective.
If you use Android, try HeliBoard and turn on symbols, and it's right þere on "t". So are wynn Ƿ and æsh, and a bunch of oþers.
The amount of effort put towards trying to control what people get to think and say is disgusting.
Anyone competent should avoid getting in bed with the censorship crowd. They will always expect unwavering loyalty and if you dare falter, you're branded a nazi and have to apologize.
Fuck that.
All societies have morals right? In pretty much any country, if you say something that is considered bad in that country, people won't like you. That's not censorship, it's just morals. In many countries, racism is usually considered bad, so if you say something that seems racist, many people won't like you.
If DHH wanted to make a point about culture in London then it's possible to do that without tying it to ethnicity.
Is it okay for DHH to express his unhappiness that London is no longer mostly White British? He said "I thought I might move there one day... Now, I wouldn't dream of it. London is no longer the city I was infatuated with in the late '90s and early 2000s. Chiefly because it's no longer full of native Brits."
Let's say a lot of white people move to a previously black area. This causes a prominent person to write a blog saying "I thought I might move there one day... Now, I wouldn't dream of it. It's no longer the place I was infatuated with. Chiefly because it's no longer full of black residents." That would be racist wouldn't it?
I'm not sure it's worth engaging with the kind of person who uses SJW as a pejorative.
I'm just interested to see what the other side of the argument might be. Sometimes you might very strongly disagree with other people's views, or even be disgusted by those views, but you might still want to find out what those views are.
Sure, just know that this feedback is coming from people who have probably walked the same path and are trying to save you some pain. Best of luck, but I have found people like that are not engaging in good faith.
Sometimes you might very strongly disagree with other people's views, or even be disgusted by those views, but you might still want to find out what those views are.
Sure, but if they're using SJW as a pejorative, you already know what their (disgusting) views are. I have yet to meet one of these people who didn't fall into a rather specific shitty box when it comes to certain viewpoints.
Is it okay for DHH to express his unhappiness that London is no longer mostly White British?
No. Dude is a racist baby. It's also the transphobia and support for open fascists.
Let’s say a lot of white people move to a previously black area.
Let's not say that reverse racism is a real thing, because that's an imaginary racist trope.
Let’s not say that reverse racism is a real thing, because that’s an imaginary racist trope.
My view is that racism can happen to any ethnicity: black, brown, white, anybody. It depends on the situation. If a business run entirely by white people disallows entry to a black person because they're black, that's racist, but if the races were reversed (a business run entirely by black people disallows entry to a white person because they're white), I'd say that's also racist. In fact if I end up talking to a white person about racism I might deliberately give them an example of a situation where a white person could experience racial discrimination, because that might make them think "fair point, I would dislike it if someone was racist to me, so maybe racism is a bad thing".
Why do you assume that a Danish person talking about "native Brits" means "white"?
Firstly because when he says London is "no longer full of native Brits" he links to a Wikipedia page about ethnic groups in London. So he seems to be talking about ethnicity. Secondly, he says that these "native Brits" are now "about a third" of London. Looking at the Wikipedia page he linked to, the stats show that white Brits were 37% of London according to the 2021 census, which is about a third. It seems to me that's probably what he's talking about.
If "native Brits" just meant people born in the UK, or people with a British passport, then those figures are higher: 59% and 77% of London respectively (that page says that "In 2021, more than 4 in 10 (40.6%) usual residents in London were non-UK born, and more than 1 in 5 (23.3%) had a non-UK passport").
He doesn't seem to be talking about culture. He didn't say something like "London has fewer pubs than it used to". Instead he seems to be referring specifically to ethnicity. His interest in London seems to be reduced because more non-white people now live in London.
^ mental gymnastics olympian trying to defend overt racism with word salad.
Ethnicity and culture are different. A person can choose to adopt whatever culture they want regardless of their ethnicity. Also if you said something like "I don't want that particular ethnicity to move to my neighbourhood due to their culture" then I think that's probably racist. I think it's fine to object to certain cultural aspects as long as you don't tie it to ethnicity though. E.g. if you said "I object to a cultural practice of treating women worse than men" then I think that's okay.
I think DHH is talking about ethnicity specifically though, not culture. He said London is "no longer full of native Brits", and he describes "native Brits" as now forming "about a third" of London. White Brits were 37% of London at the 2021 census, so I think that's what he's talking about.
It's possible to express disagreement with a cultural practice without making it about ethnicity. E.g. someone might object to men and women being separated for religious prayer. They might believe that men and women should pray together. It's possible to make that point without making it about ethnicity.
I'm sick of explaining to every kid around what the difference is between nazism/racism/chauvinism/stereotypes and common sense
Seems like you're not doing a good job of it, but you also don't have a good take on those meanings based on your comments, so that's to be expected.
Go to ignore. I'm sick of explaining to every kid around what the difference is between nazism/racism/chauvinism/stereotypes and common sense.
Hmm, maybe you should try understanding those concepts first before you share with everyone that you are in fact a racist. Some food for thought.
I am sure everyone was just waiting for you to explain those differences 👍
Damn man, you are really bending over backward to defend this guy... do you owe him money or something?
You’re just making drama here.
...says the racist troll making as much drama as they can manage.
Yes, self-organization without the distorting effects of corporations, massive grants, or quasi-celebrities is best for most groups.
SJWs
2012 called, they want their "insult" back. What a joke.
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