Wait is this really Telegraph article? No raging sinophobia in every paragraph and even touching grass?
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Tesla stock price has always been valued on "Next Big Thing". Its robotaxi/fsd is falling flat so far. But robotics is new NBT. With 85% of robots sold in China, and massive manufacturing market share that is still growing, future robot sales will still take place there, and Chinese companies are already well ahead in humanoid and other robotics.
Also their gimmick, robot soccer and robot olympics events, even if not incredibly impressive, is a mass student training program in robotics future that just doesn't exist in the west. China's future robot dominance is completely assured because they care about making it happen. Tesla has 0 chance of success, and for a market, requires giving Tesla US monopoly on overpriced robots.
“Their cost and the quality of their vehicles is far superior to what I see in the West,” Farley warned in July.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKa8mVOe5so Two years ago... have they really improved over Western cars since then?
I don't think linking a "China watcher" that exclusively makes videos on how China is going to collapse any minute now going back years is good evidencd.
Maybe, but there's plenty of clips in the video of the cars catching on fire, which seem like evidence of something...
Kinda? You can find videos of any car catching on fire, what matters is how they compare at a statistical level with their competition to see if they are doing better or worse, not evidence that at minimum failure rates are nonzero. I truly don't trust China Watchers to produce anything meaningful or useful.
Define "plenty." What's the fire rate compared to the total number of BYD cars in existance? How does that compare to Tesla? How's the historical trend, is it going up or down? Are they equally likely to catch fire across the board or are there problematic models or series? Different countries have different automotive regulations and therefore have slightly different cars even if they're the same model, are the fire rates different by country? Are domestic Chinese BYDs more likely to catch fire than cars exported to, say, other Asian countries, Latin America, or Africa?
This is why you don't draw conclusions from how many YouTube videos you can find. When there are billions of any product there will inevitably be tons of videos of it going wrong which doesn't inherently tell you whether it's actually likely to happen or not. If that was an acceptable statistical analysis method, then I can binge watch the hundreds of thousands of aviation accident videos and conclude that literally all planes do is crash.
Two years of progress in China is like two decades of progress in the west.
Because they have run our country into the ground for their own personal profit, nepotism and corruption while destroying our education system, opportunities and infrastructure. Check mate idiots
Yeah, but WE pay, the oligarchs, in their privilege-bubbles, don't.
That's why they're into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism , aka torch-us-so-they-get-golden-rulership .. style of driving our lobbied/bribed "governments".
WHEN one ideologically-rejects that souls have any future-Eternity, any "reaping of what they have sown", as the root-guru of the Christians rendered the concept "karma",
THEN torching-our-entire-future-for-narcissistic-momentary-pleasure is logical , rightttt?
Political-systems invariably divorce authority from accountability, and that itself proves political-systems unfit for ruling our world.
Responsibilityarchy's the only survivable alternative.
Human-habit opposes responsibilityarchy, with its automatic-accountability mechanisms, more-fundamentally than it opposes ideology-rule, by far.
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Sometimes oligarchs get destroyed by supporting fascism.
The US as a whole has been stripped bare by private equity and these conservative fat fuck neck beards are so scared of brown people that they are willingly giving the country away.
That and they can't understand that the world is leaving the US behind.
“Their cost and the quality of their vehicles is far superior to what I see in the West,” Farley warned in July.
If you want to see what the Chinese car market is like, check out Wheelsboy. The features that are just standard in Chinese cars are crazy.
Got any specific videos to recommend?
Do they do any reviews of cars after a few years of wear and use or only brand new from the factory?
“It’s the most humbling thing I’ve ever seen,” said Ford’s chief executive about his recent trip to China.
Report from June 2025: ‘The Most Humbling Thing I’ve Ever Seen’: Ford CEO On China’s Car Industry'
Ceos discovering what investing profits into the business and communities can do instead of pocketing every goddamn cent for the investors.
Whaaat you mean just aiming for metrics to increase stock prices is not actually creating value? YOU CAN MAKE MORE MONEY BY CREATING VALUE????
American car industry literally got bailout after bailout. If GM and Ford had just been allowed to succumb to their shit management Tesla may never had been in a position to be bought by a nazi.
Europe : "stop industry, stop production, cease consumption !"
USA : "stop science, let's go back to religion !"
China : "hold my beer 🤣"
An analyst I heard figured Musk is giving up on cars after visiting China and seeing what they do and trying to pivot to robotics.
As these types of articles always do, they leave out China's huge unemployment problem and dismiss the existential threat of wealth inequality.
It appears those are specifically problems China is on the trajectory of solving/improving for itself.
The American CEOs going to China are returning to find those issues getting worse everyday with no solution in sight.
It felt a bit implied and would seem really contrived to reassure the reader China has those problems.
How'd they end up with a huge unemployment problem after the 1 child policy plus being the biggest manufacturer in the world?
That doesn't mean it's not a problem, right? There's always a country that's even worse off.
Wealth inequality is worse in the US than in China.
Could be, that data for wealth isn't easily available for both countries.
Income inequality is about the same in USA and China though, Gini coefficient around 0.41 in both countries. Most figures put China slightly more inequal than USA for income.
Dealing with surplus humans has never been a problem for communist countries. Just stop allocating them food for 2 months.
Not sure if China is that sort of a communist country these days though, but it sure retained the authoritarian parts.
I think I'd rather just make fewer, more durable things. One computer per year per person is way way too many. And cars barely need to exist at all, compared to the number of cars actually in existence. Vans, trucks, trains, and buses are of course a different story.
I'm suspicious of an article about advanced robotics without any description or depiction of said robots. Humanoid robots are for advertising brochures. They're impractical for almost everything.
This is some anecdote from executives jotted down by journalists who never got near these factories.
Not saying its fake, just lazy and incurious journalism.
The telegraph is a low-quality right-wing rag in the UK that frames everything with a hint of xenophobia. I'd say it's a pretty poor source for "world news". Definitely take it with a large dose of salt.
The whole "dark factory" thing was invented by the Japanese, decades ago, ttbomk.
Huge factory, no lights on in it, simply because there weren't any humans in it.
Patrols for surprise-errors/mistakes/malfunctions were done by flashlight.
Japanese-management got things down to a few cosmetic-blemishes per million units back in the VCR days.
Their quality-control was 2nd to none.
That other Asian industries can learn from the Japanese, in ways that our culture prohibits us from doing, shouldn't be surprising.
All the people who insist that the only thing that China produces is shit-quality "Chinesium", iPhones were produced in China for years ( no idea if they still are, & don't care ) and those things were far tighter quality than anything I've ever built, or than anything ANY of the North Americans I've worked-with have ever built.
China produces a spectrum, ranging from shit-quality to stunning-quality.
Same as we do.
Ideological "glasses" blind us, they don't "help" us see what's actually going-on.
& as another already-identified, "robotics" in no way implies humanoid.
Car-manufactories have been using giant robotic-arms for series-spot-welding for .. decades, now?
I'd do all the fuselage-riveting of old-style sheet-aluminum aircraft by robot, if I was a manufacturer of those things:
once you get the programming right, then you don't have "human error" sabotaging your product-integrity.
It's the same at all scales: what we are good-at, isn't what robots are good-at, & either we segregate the work so that we are doing the adaptive/innovative/human-process-centered stuff, & leave all the mechanical-repitition to robots, XOR we're sabotaging our own competitive-ability.
Exactly as the "strategy" of letting the short-term bottom-line now proves, when Asian industries invest strategically, in future-competitive-capability.
Decades-ago there was an example of the US steel-industry: they coasted on their establishment, while Japan invested in more-precision-chemistry & better foundries, then .. after some years, those investments came on-line, & the US steel industry, which couldn't compete with that, just got the US gov't to establish protectionism, to tarriff the Japanese steel industry, to protect the anti-strategic US companies.
( this is from one of the strategic-management textbooks of Blackwell: it's literally a reference-text case )
Accountability won't ever be tolerated by opportunistic-authority, including industry-incumbents, therefore "protectionism" damages the market to protect the anti-strategy of the incumbent players at the cost of our world's finite-opportunity.
That is normal: S. O. P.
Different cultures value different things.
Some people value making things right, whereas other people value corrupting everything that they can, as much as they can, for sake of how much the "get away with" ( the word "shoddy" is actually the real name of a guy who established that paradigm in the US )
We wouldn't invest in what Asia's invested-in: why should we have any ability to compete?
That is our "strategy".
And when we are economically-butchered by our "strategy", then .. then the oligarchs will simply protect themselves, & exploit the then-current situation, same as now.
Nothing changes, fundamentally..
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I think the picture in the article was just AI bullshit art. It's not how anyone really thinks robotic factories look.
Are they "terrified" enough to shift their approach away from "cut every fucking corner imaginable, rinse repeat"?
Worked for a chinese company and here to tell you- that is their approach, always has been.
Wouldn't be surprised if everything the "western execs" saw was a charade put on especially for them that falls apart as easily as Elon's cybertrucks on closer inspection. Don't believe everything you see at an expo or read in The Telegraph.
A few weeks ago there was a report on some US VC investors who made a similar trip to China and were then 'terrified' ... Now this. Is it somewhat similar to the influencer trips to Xinjiang that then tell the world that the genocide of Uyghurs is not true?
How much do you see in such PR trips? Go a bit upstream the value chain to get the full picture ...
Is it somewhat similar to the influencer trips to Xinjiang that then tell the world that the genocide of Uyghurs is not true?
Am not an influencer, have been to Urumqi, should be going back in like a month or so.
Maybe it's the people who have never been there and whose job requires them to create/amplify hostile evidence whom are lying, and not every person who travels to Xinjiang.
It's ironic that you're making innuendo about agendaposting, when your whole account seems to be entirely dedicated solely to anti-China posts.
Here is practically the same article, posted less than three weeks ago. It's the same narrative posted by the same user.
I didn't say you were wrong, I said you were a hypocrite.
I don't hate a country or an individual. This is your weird interpretation.
Ah see now you’re just being straight up dishonest now. It’s trivial for anyone to check your post history and see that this isn’t true.
Up til now I’d given you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you were just a slight oddball with an axe to grind for personal reasons, but now it’s clear this is a troll farm account. On the block list you go.
Yeah but ford is only alive because of bailouts. A strong breeze should humble them
Ford was the one US automaker that didn’t take those bailouts.
They are watering at the mouth to see how easily China is replacing humans with robots and AI. Combined with a censorship and surveillance state, this is the dream of most oligarchs in the Western world at this moment in history.
Isn't this just Chinese propaganda?
By the Telegraph, based on accounts from US and British executives?
you mean the same executives that are currently trying their best to circumvent democracy in their countries of origin?
the same ones that are actively demonstrating their disdain for the economies that helped them grow to the massive sizes they are today?
the very same people who have been warning their employees of the bad Chinese companies that manufacture shitty products but secretly began moving operations overseas decades ago?
those guys?
totally trustworthy!
The middle west being terrified of anyone doing better than them is literally the reason they’re falling behind by every measure on that shithole island
Inb4 China-bad slop from the usual suspects.
From a quick scan of the article I'd say it's not as much "china-bad" as china is doing better than us now and we can't keep up.
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