top 40 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 86 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I wish government organisations would host their own Mastodon servers. Get off Twitter.

  • source
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    In some countries, corporations and government are basically the same entity. Free countries distinguish between them in a meaningful sense.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Honestly, imo they wouldn't even need to get off Twitter and other platforms completely. Just make their own mastodon instance (or something similar that they control themselves) the primary source of truth and place of interaction. They could still link and reference it on other platforms to increase visibility, but make sure that all primary information is in a freely accessible place and not beholden to unreliable entities.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's a good approach, it's exactly how NodeBB operates as well.

    We have a FOSS software and we sell managed services for those who don't have the technical know-how.

    Win-win.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Corporations only want to deal with companies, not ideas or people. I've been thinking about it from my experience with red hat. Support and services. I don't want to host, but I'll absolutely help others.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 72 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I think that sounds like a really good idea, if you want to get corporate- and government hosted instances on board. What keeps most of them away from free software is that they can't write a contract with anyone with clear boundaries and guarantees. If Mastodon offers these types of contracts, it would help the adoption rate.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago

    What keeps most of them away from free software is that they can’t write a contract with anyone with clear boundaries and guarantees.

    They can. There are plenty of companies offering Mastodon hosting.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Mastodon isn’t different than any other software, anybody with a half-way experienced IT department could spin up an instance. This sounds like it’s more for small organizations and individuals.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Any company with experienced IT staff could do 80% of SaaS themselves, but they don't because it's a huge headache to maintain and issues can easily balloon costs. The bean counters much prefer fixed cost contracts most of the time

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago

    Mastodon has already been exploring this solution ahead of today’s launch by partnering with clients like the European Commission, the state of Schleswig-Holstein in Germany, the city of Blois in France, and AltStore, a software company making an alternative app store.

    Great idea!

  • source
  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    I would love to see hosts start offering subscription based instances and do things like paying for regular auditing of their infrastructure to give us some assurance that our data is actually secure.

    I'd legitimately pay for that.

  • source
  • hideshow 11 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (10 children)

    I would love to see hosts start offering subscription based instances

    Communick offers access to Mastodon, Lemmy, Funkwhale and Matrix for $29/year

    I’d legitimately pay for that.

    How much? "Regular auditing of the infrastructure" seems like a very enterprise-y thing to expect from a basic SaaS.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Regular auditing of the infrastructure" seems like a very enterprise-y thing to expect from a basic SaaS.

    That's the entire point. Offer a premium service when compared to the alternatives and you get to bring in revenue.

    Currently, every instance essentially makes a pinky promise that our data isn't being used maliciously. An audit provides assurances they are.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (8 children)

    You didn't respond the second part: how much are you willing to pay for this? Anything less than $100k/year and I will guarantee you there is no serious provider who will care about being certified for it, and any who is willing to pay that much money surely will be better off by running their instance on their own.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Of course I didn't respond to it. Because it has nothing to do with my point. Im not going to go out there and do extensive business research just to satisfy your weird demand.

    It's something I'd like to see someone take on. It's something I'd wager other people would like to see take on. The economic viability I leave to anyone that wants to take it on.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    I'm not going to go out there and do extensive business research

    I didn't ask you to do any research. You said "I'd legitimately would pay for it." and I asked one simple question: how much?

    The economic viability I leave to anyone that wants to take it on.

    This attitude right here is why the Fediverse is bound to stay small and amateurish. Everyone is just focused on keeping their own little pipe dreams and wishing that someone else to take on the sacrifice to do these gigantic efforts without expecting any reward.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    I want a kebab shop down the street. You gonna demand I tell you how much I'd pay for a kebab and then wildly insult the community for not doing it themselves?

    without any reward

    It is called a business. Someone sees a potential opportunity (through, i dunno. People talking about how much they'd like it), does the research, determines if it's a viable investment on their part, and either starts it up or doesn't.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

    I want a kebab shop down the street. You gonna demand I tell you how much I’d pay for a kebab

    No, I will look at kebab shops in your area and see how much they are charging, and I will check if their operation is actually profitable (instead of being a front for someone who needs to launder money) and I will see if they have enough customers paying the asking price. If the math checks out and if I see an opportunity for the market, then I'd go invest time and resources to open a shop there.

    There is no such thing for "hosting providers that have been audited and can certify that the data is secured and properly managed". And given you are the first person saying "I'd pay for that", why do you think is somehow offensive to be asked "How much?"

    Someone sees a potential opportunity (...) does the research,

    Yeah, part of the research is exactly going to potential customers and asking how much are you willing to pay for this?.

    Seriously, I do not get what is so weird about asking it.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Well I'm glad you would go into the depth of researching the economic viability of something when you think "I'd like to have this amenity".

    But I don't. Because why the fuck would I?

    If someone wants to go through the work of researching the costs of setting up such a service, layout the costs, and make some proposals and how much they'd need to charge to the community I'd happily contribute.

    Until then....dude you took an offhand "Hey I'd like to see something like this" and turned it into some weird obsession with making me name how much i'd spend on something.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    In case you didn't notice, I have a hosting business. This is why I'm "obsessed" in figuring out how much someone would pay for it, if they were serious about what they are asking.

    By asking you "how much would you pay?", I'm trying to gauge how serious you are about it. Your refusal to go ahead and name any amount for something that you said "I'd pay for that" shows me that you are not serious about it and therefore a bad idea.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    No, I didn't. Probably because you never said you did. Weird how that works.

    Now, had you said "Hey, I run a business, something like this would probably cost X per year and I think I would have Y users. Which would mean I'd minimally have to charge Z to make this viable" I probably would have given my input.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    you never said it.

    The whole conversation started with me talking about Communick offering a subscription service. Communick is my business. I thought that was clear. My bad if it wasn't.

    "Hey, I run a business, something like this would probably cost X per year and I think I would have Y users. Which would mean I'd minimally have to charge Z to make this viable"

    That's not a good approach, because Y changes depending on the price point and X changes on what these Y customers would expect from the service.

    The only variable that can be fixed here is "how much you are willing to pay", so this is why I am asking it.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I hope we don't kill this like how we kill Mozilla when it makes a plan to make money.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    All they have to do is not censor or take down domains. Looking at you GoDaddy

  • source
  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I honestly would've preferred a referral program where you could get a pre-configured vps at your chosen vps provider (where the end user can choose from vps providers such as Hetzner, Glesys and so on), and that the referrer (mastodon, friendica, piefed, lemmy or mbin) gets a small cut out of every monthly payment.
    Though I'm not sure how to make that an intriguing deal for the vps providers.

    Centralizing the decentralized web at one provider sounds counter productive.

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Completely agree that this "feels like" a centralisation vector. That's not the intent of it, and if you read the blog post we make it clear that we want many Mastodon servers, everywhere, rather than one organisation hosting them all. This is to do two things - 1) get us a more sustainable financial foundation that is less dependent on grant cycles and 2) enable the larger institutions (EU Commission being an existing example) to get set up on the Fediverse.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Even if they were to use a single cloud for the managed instances, this is not at all like the centralization of platform ownership. Here's the critical difference.

    If something happens to Twitter, say a methhead buys it and turns it into a propaganda machine, its users can only stop using it and/or move elsewhere. For this to have a significant effect, the a large part of the network of people has to move. Every individual has to do non-trivial amount of labour to do so. That's hard.

    If something happens to the cloud provider hosting some sizeable Mastodon server, the owner of the server can migrate (copy) the instance to another cloud provider, or their own hardware, switch the DNS records and shutdown the old one. Their users would only notice a brief interruptin. There's no significant labour needed by the users, apart from perhaps logging in again. Only a much smaller amount of labour by the instance owner, compared to the labour needed for mass user migration performed by individual users.

    And that's the major difference that fundamentally changes the dynamics.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I remember when I wanted Mozilla to do that, since they had the organizational might, the money, and it fit perfectly with their mission when they created mozilla.social. On the one hand, it seems slightly less ideal to have the same organization that develops mastodon also providing hosting for it. On the other hand, they probably have a better chance of doing it well.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    On the one hand, it seems slightly less ideal to have the same organization that develops mastodon also providing hosting for it. On the other hand, they probably have a better chance of doing it well.

    Yeah, I could see it going two ways. On one hand, they could devote too much time to their for-profit arm and neglect the FOSS branch, or worse, make the .com a favored child over the .org, like WordPress does. But on the other hand, they could be like Canonical which, while they've made some questionable decisions with Ubuntu over the years, has pretty staunchly put open-sourced all of their improvements and opened up their improvements to everyone downstream.

    And I too miss moz.soc.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I hope they don't go open core.

  • source
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The code is AGPL. They can't do open core.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago*

    Matrix Synapse is AGPL, and it is very much open-core these days, see Synapse Pro.

    This is IMHO the main risk, at some point someone might say, why not give our hosting an small advantage over others, and it is all downhill from there.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago
    [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    The article just says "Mastodon" and links to the joinmastodon.org, but I assume they mean Mastodon gGmbH owned by @Gargron@mastodon.social . Lame stream media tries, but they really don't understand teh poly-centric nature of the 'verse.

  • source