I never paid much attention to his debates, but from what little snippets I've seen, along with the "Prove Me Wrong" schtick seems to indicate he already decided he was right and others were wrong.

There's plenty of rhetoric and memes already, I'd like to avoid more rhetoric and memes, and I ask this question with genuine curiosity and earnest desire for learning and understanding.

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[–] 146 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (15 children)

No. He operates as an Evangelical Apologist does. He makes disingenuous arguments that sound logical and convincing enough, as long as you don't think about or look into them that much.

I think at Stamford Cambridge recently his whole argument against gay marriage was completely torn down, and he finally just said, he simply didn't like it. I'll look for the video.

Edit: Found it. His own channel has a video of the Cambridge debate. Odly, that student was edited out. But Cambridge has the full event. Including the one omitted

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    He changed his mind to agree with Catholics about the Blessed Virgin Mary. That's rare for an Evangelical.

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  • [–] [S] 15 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Thanks for answering the question properly.

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  • [+] -42 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] [S] 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    "properly" meaning avoiding meme answers and rhetoric like many other commenters have done, i.e.:

    • Once and the message stuck with him for the rest of his life.
    • Who cares? He’s dead now.
    • I heard he started leaning left shortly before his death.
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  • [+] -34 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] [S] 24 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Lying isn't the issue here. "He's dead, who cares?" does absolutely nothing to answer my question.

    Jokes about his death (leaning left, "once for the rest of his life") does absolutely nothing to answer my question.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Why didn't you answer the question, if you're so sure every other one is wrong?

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  • [+] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I was listening to.. CBC front burner podcast I think? And they mentioned that he has shifted his position on immigrants. He was quoted in the past saying any immigrant who graduated post secondary in the US should have a green card attached to the diploma.

    Then some right wing nutjobs were mad about that and we're targetting his events and harrassing him until he fell in line.

    So yeah. He will change his mind, if he is bullies enough.

    Also I think the group that were harassing his events was Nick Fuentas (spelling?) and now some of the coverage is indicating the shooter might have been a follower of Nick? I'm not sure how confirmed that is so do your own research.

    But if it's just right wing nutjobs killing slightly less to the right right wing nutjobs.... Idk man.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago*

    The guy who killed Charlie was 100% a groyper (Nick Fuentes lackey). The news has been slow to pick up on it, but his socials were full of Pepe memes and he is fully a member of the alt-right. Kirk was killed for not being racist enough. Which is insane

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago

    He was never in it for personal growth he was in it for financial gains. He was a mere grifter, his opinions were for sale. There is a lot of money in right wing grifting when you reach his level of notoriety. His personal beliefs conveniently always pointed in the direction of money. Worth about $12m when he was executed. He believed in his bank accounts.

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    No, but he was rather conclusively proven wrong a couple days ago

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  • [–] 54 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    The best thing that could possibly come of his death is if nobody ever spoke of him or thought of him again. These people's power is entirely derived from people talking about them. If it continues long past their death, they may as well be immortal.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    The funny thing is, he will be completely forgotten in a month, even by his putative supporters.

    Who's going around sad that Rush Limbaugh is dead?

    He's just useful to their sadistic cause. That's it. No one is even sad that Charlie's dead — but they are absolutely gleeful at the idea of attacking anyone left of Reagan in "revenge."

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago

    I am also interested in this.

    I guess that most people wouldn't really know, because who with a sound mind would like to spend time listening to garbage being produced by right wing grifters. Most of us just assume they are trolls and cannot have their minds changed, and we are right in this assumption most of the time, I would say.

    The only right wing person I have ever heard to actually question his own beliefs is Jordan Peterson during the Žižek debate. That's it. And it is probably because Peterson isn't really a troll or a grifter, he is just endlessly confused and ignorant and angry. I can't think of a single other case. And I would assume the same goes for Kirk. Everything I have ever heard about this guy is absolutely abominable.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Once and the message stuck with him for the rest of his life.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Can you provide a reference, please?

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  • [+] 8 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I fail to see how that's changing his views on a subject during a debate. I already knew he had been killed.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago

    Ok, so in all seriousness, he doesn’t “debate” in the classical sense of two parties entering a forum with good intentions and open minds. Kirk’s brand of “debate” was getting selectively edited viral clips of flustered college students who couldn’t come up with a coherent response to the bullshit he spat out. He never changed his mind (and would never) because that would make him look weak, and that’s not what his brand of “debate” is about — it’s about winning at any cost and making people look dumb for the views.

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  • [–] 50 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Yeah - at the end, he ended up leaning pretty far to the left

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  • [+] [S] -8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    You're not the first person to make that joke here.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I think there was one event in Utah were somebody shot an argument about guns being bad, and he thought about it for the rest of his life. Not sure if it changed his mind

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This isn’t the place to get an unbiased actual real answer. No one here has watched anything beyond a clip out of context by a POS influencer.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    he changes it whatever suits him at the moment, much like what the other right grifters do.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago

    I heard he started leaning left shortly before his death.

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago

    Who cares? He's dead now.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    A political debate is intended to convince voters that your policies are the right decision. Not that they are correct in a factual sense.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Has any social media debate changed anyone's mind?

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    indicate he already decided he was right and others were wrong.

    That’s kind of a big part of debates, didn’t you do them in school?

    You can change opinions over time but you’d lose a debate if you said the other side was right in the middle of it.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This is the root of the problem, isn't it? When someone proves you wrong, and you persist despite evidence to the contrary, that's pretty stupid, right? This high school debate sophistry that Kirk and his contemporaries engage in isn't a good faith discussion and most of his audience isn't equipped with the critical thinking skills to understand that.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    isn’t a good faith discussion and most of his audience isn’t equipped with the critical thinking skills to understand that.

    This is the biggest crux. I found people also don’t realize that clips are either staged or handpicked.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I think that's a problem with debating classes in the US where people lost sight on why debates are useful in the first place.

    It should be an exchange of ideas and views, an opportunity to learn, not a training in ways to just yell over your opponent so that then you can just claim you won something. Then again, writing this "out loud" makes me realize that that is the American way, no?

    May e that's where a lot of gains can be made for the next generation. Teach them how to debate with reason AND LISTEN TO YOUR OPPONENT.For fucking once, actually listen, and try to understand, and not stick with your guns even though you're obviously in the wrong

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I thought that's what these "change my mind booths" were for. Highlighting the poor standard of debating shown extensively by the late internet celebrity. He was also a honey pot for online trolling at the expense of a poorly thought out statement or just too much raw emotion. From what I seen the whole set up was triggering but a choice and seemed to cover all health and safety issues at each campus.

    Listening is key . Context is everything.

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  • [+] 5 points 1 year ago* (17 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    What do you mean obeyed the Pope? You realize I've of his last actions was to donate the popemobile as an aid vehicle for Gaza

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  • [+] -1 points 1 year ago (7 children)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I'm sorry, what time period do you think we live in exactly?

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    The holy Roman empire fell centuries ago. The power it held was distributed to organizations we generally refer to as "the West"

    The Pope has immense power... But soft power. The only army they can move is the Swiss guard

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    The Jesuit order? The most reasonable and educated branch of any religion I've ever met? The order dedicated to knowledge?

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    You realize it's an order? They're a sub organization under the Catholic Church, they have their own leadership

    Anyways, there's a cabal of pedophiles and consulting companies like McKinsey who are the literal global elite fucking everything up. They're connected to everything and leave a paper trail.

    It's all out in the open, they've been grilled before Congress repeatedly, but no one takes it seriously. You can spend an afternoon just in their Wikipedia page, under controversies you have a list of just the things they were caught doing

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)

    Fascinating answer, thank you.

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  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    All of these right-wing grifters are susceptible to Zeitgeist shifts as they are paid for the reach of their propaganda so when it became untenable to defend Israel even to a right-wing audience Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly and Charlie Kirk pivoted. Ben Shapiro didn't and lost his audience.

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