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[–] 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Fuck Musk and all, but "collapsed" seems a bit overstated. Their loyalty rate is no longer remarkably high but is still above-average according to the article.

Tesla’s customer loyalty peaked in June 2024, when 73% of Tesla-owning households in the market for a new car bought another Tesla,
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The rate bottomed out at 49.9% last March, just below the industry average,
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Tesla's U.S. loyalty rate has since ticked back up to 57.4% in May, the most recent month the S&P data is available, putting it back above the industry average and about the same as Toyota (7203.T), but behind Chevrolet (GM.N), and Ford (F.N).

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  • [–] 56 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    Should have collapsed before that. Tesla doesn’t make quality cars

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    It's the marketing hypertrain in action. The only real advantages Tesla ever had were their motors (the one designed by the 2 real Tesla founders) and their deal with Panasonic, which allowed them to manufacture batteries in house, bringing down the cost. The car itself was just a plastic shell for the two.

    That time has now come and gone. All the other auto companies make competing, if not better motors, and all the other battery companies are also making "tabless" batteries. BMW is even rocking true solid-state batteries in some of their newer cars.

    Oh, and the dumpster fire that they call "self-driving". Can't forget about that.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    All the other auto companies make competing, if not better motors

    Maybe motors and batteries, but the vehicles as a whole need help. Coming from a Tesla Model 3, and ending up driving several other models these last few months for several weeks at a time... Most other manufacturers don't know what the fuck they're doing with EVs.

    The Kia EV6 rental that I currently have they seem to have just swapped the gas motor for an EV motor and battery pack, and left everything else about the vehicle the same. So it doesn't know what the fuck it is. The key fob does wake the car up as you walk up and it unfolds the mirrors and lights flash at you, but it doesn't actually unlock the car, you still have to lock and unlock it via the buttons on the fob. So it seems like they said, people expect EVs to welcome them, and made it do that but didn't actually think it through. So why does it wake up at all? There's a Start button just like you have on ICE, and you have to turn it back off when you're done, as if it needs to start and stop an ICE engine. It has an accessory mode for charging, but warns you that it will drain the battery, presumably because it still only uses the 12V battery for that, and the HV system won't charge that if the car isn't "ON"? And the EV6 is one of the models I see recommended all over the place online.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    It's probably just personal preference and the door lock issue is probably a security precaution. One of the big ways people are breaking into or stealing modern cars that use "smart" keys is with a mirroring attack. They use a long-ish antenna (1m or so) to pickup the FOB inside your house, then mirror the signal to the car with a phone/tablet. Once they're in your car, things get even worse. Honda's for example used to store their security codes in the OBD computer (I don't know if this is still true). Meaning thieves could plug in a technician OBD tool (they're like $1,000 on Amazon), then program a brand-new virgin key for your car, right there in your driveway, hit the start button and drive off. All in under 30-seconds. The non-smart keyed cars were even worse, since the alarm doesn't go off if you pick the lock (no joke lol)

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    To my knowledge, the Tesla still has a 12 volt battery that has to be separately charged if you leave the thing off for more than 2 weeks.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    They used to but not anymore, they now have a rechargeable lithium 16V battery.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    So they went back and fixed all of the old ones? That's not something I had heard of, tbh.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    No the old cars do have the old 12v one in still. They obviously learned its a bad idea. Newer models don't have it and have a lithium rechargeable instead.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Will it still run that dead in sentry mode while the engine batteries remain charged and unused?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    I'm not sure of the intricacies but this change was made to avoid the dead 12v situations. I imagine now as the main battery can now recharge the lithium one easily it keeps it topped up somehow to avoid this happening.

    I left my Tesla for nearly 3 week holiday not plugged in and it was fine when i came back.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Doesn't even matter if their cars are any good, they never meet their own stated goals in earnings. It's been "we'll have fully autonomous taxis in a year" for the last 7 years.

    The most recent ones have literally been "we're going to make humanoid robots, we expect to sell them for $30k each, everyone will want one or two, and there's 8 billion people in the world, so we expect to make a few trillion dollars in 5-10 years. Also our AI will be able to do anything." This isn't hyperbole, he's actually going out on stage and making those claims.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Also Musk have been a massive asshole long before he began to back Trump.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    He could be seen as a vaguely entertaining asshole though. Before he went and removed any lingering doubt.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    Vaguely entertaining?

    You mean when every second word coming out of his mouth was a lie? For the past decade?

    Elmo got Tesla big on mostly lies. Just like SpaceX.

    Then there was fun like the solar roofs, or tadaaaahh hyperloop!

    The guy has been a massive dick conman for at least a decade now. I'm unsure what is entertain about that

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    And yet the Tesla board just gave Elon another $29 billion worth of stock. What a weird time to be alive.

    Source: https://bbc.com/news/articles/cz71vn1v3n4o

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Not quite sure how this is an exclusive — it was obvious at the time.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Isn’t exclusive data just ‘Trust us bro, we have the numbers?’

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Glad these guys got this exclusive scoop that nobody could've known otherwise...

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Captain obvious has an exclusive?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Not enough, though.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago
    60 comments in c/politics@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 148 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    Tesla for years had more repeat U.S. customers than any other major automotive brand but its loyalty has plunged since CEO Elon Musk endorsed President Donald Trump last summer

    Uh, let's be clear. It's not just because he endorsed Trump. It's because he had a torrid love affair with Maga and Naziism, tried to overtly buy elections, wrecked the federal government and the lives of tens of thousands of workers, caused death and misery, and was generally an unlikable prick.

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  • [–] 72 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    All that, and also Tesla is no longer the best electric car on the market. For a long time they were ahead of the competition, but that was years ago. Today you can get a better car, for less money, AND you don't give a nazi your money. Why would people stick with Tesla?

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    That's true too. My Hyundai is better than any of the many Teslas I've sat in as a passenger.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    also Tesla is no longer the best electric car on the market.

    Was it ever?

    I don't remember a year when they didn't have QC problems while over promising and under delivering.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Wow, those must be some shitty cars if you have to buy another one in that short of a time frame

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    Not really though. My brother bought a Model 3 when they first came out and loved it so much he traded it in for a Model 3 Performance version a couple years later. Then he bought his wife a Model Y. Some people (with money) buy cars every couple of years.

    Since Elon started doing Nazi salutes and started ripping up the government with DOGE, my brother traded in both cars for an F150 Lightning and a Rivian R1S. He'll never buy a Tesla again as long as Musk is involved.

    I know several people who currently have Teslas but won't buy another. Brand loyalty is absolutely in the shitter.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I have an ex who would penny-pinch the little things that would have made me happy, like using 2-ply toilet paper, claiming that it was too expensive. But then the MFer would buy a brand new car every year.

    So yeah, you’re right. Some people truly do buy new cars every year. I can’t understand it, and I especially can’t understand it when the person buying the car claims to be “an environmentalist” (like my ex) without considering the massive environmental impact of building/buying/shipping new cars instead of using one you already own. Just another example of some people having more money than sense, I guess.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    Yeah my brother always complains he's broke, but buys a new car every year or two. It's wild to me.

    Also, if someone is using single-ply toilet paper and driving a new car, they gotta fix their priorities.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    traded it in for a Model 3 Performance version a couple years later.

    This is an example of not thinking critically.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Actually it was pretty impressive. It was during COVID where used cars were going for a ton. He had originally bought "Full Self Driving" on his original car, but then found out that wasn't a real thing. He was able to trade in his rear wheel drive car with 40K miles on it for a brand new all wheel drive Model 3 Performance, getting rid of Full Self Driving, and it only cost him like $2 grand.

    If someone offered to give me the lastest model of my car, shaved a second off the 0-60 time, made it AWD, and rolled back the odometer 40K miles for $2k, - I'd take that in a heartbeat.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    You’re right, it does sound like he got extremely lucky.

    He had originally bought "Full Self Driving" on his original car, but then found out that wasn't a real thing.

    This is another example of a lack of critical thinking.

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  • Now you're just being a jek. Dude enjoyed his teslas, so what? I appreciate that when he found his values didn't align with the company he went and did something about it instead of slapping on some stupid "before musk was crazy" sticker.

    Get off your high horse and learn to just appreciate when people change their minds.

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago
    1. He backed Trump
    2. He showed up high as Fuck on national TV and gave a Nazi salute.
    3. He openly didn't pay the people he bribed to vote
    4. He headed the department and openly mined private citizen data and shut down services for a lot of people.

    Brand loyalty wasn't too good before then, but jesus....

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Sold my Tesla, will never buy one again. At one point, admittedly, had a CT reservation - canceled and got a GM EV.

    Two friends sold their Tesla's and will never buy one again, got Toyota and Hyundai EVs.

    Another friend's Tesla lease is up in September, they're ditching it and never buying Tesla again. Unsure what they'll get next though.

    Extended family in another state was going to get a Tesla, they just got another gas guzzler instead.

    Fuck Tesla. I hope they collapse enough to really really hurt Elon's pocket, they probably won't, but one can dream.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Stocks remain disconnected from actual worth. The stock price indicates a company with more sales/profit than frickin Toyota which sold over 10 million vehicles compared to Teslas 2 million.

    Current market cap of Toyota 285Billion, Tesla 996Billion.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    What's the GM EV you got and how do you like it? Thinking about buying another EV soon. Probably would have gotten another Tesla if Elon didn't go full Nazi.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Silverado EV. I honestly like it a lot more than I expected and it has grown on me day by day. It is not Tesla-efficient however, but for everything I use it for it performs fantastic and the maintenance is practically non-existent.

    My errands around town / daily driver is otherwise an older Chevy Bolt which is just fine as well.

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  • [+] 32 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Yes. According to xAI: "Musk has been killed by violent leftists 5 times this year alone, three of them being by people with very Jewish-sounding last names."

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Last week I saw a Cybertruck with temporary plates and I was so confused by what type of a person would go out today and buy a Cybertruck. It isn't like they're even on sale or anything.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I listened to some podcast a while back that explained why so many businesses were purchasing Cybertrucks, and it turns out there are stacked tax incentives, that due to the immense weight of the truck, it can end up getting 50 or 100% written off as a business expense.

    Here is one of the less scummy links I could find.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    It almost seems like it was designed specifically to meet these specs.

    Even if a vehicle exceeds 6,000 pounds, it must fall into one of three specific categories to qualify for full Section 179 expensing.

    • Passenger Vehicles with Seating for 9 or More

      Example: Mercedes Sprinter Van (typically used as airport shuttles)

    • Pickup Trucks with a Cargo Bed of at Least 6 Feet that is separate from the passenger compartment

      Tesla Cybertruck falls into this category!

    • Fully Enclosed Vehicles With No Rear Seating

      Example: Amazon delivery vans

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I feel that is a likely situation, probably once they saw what GVW was going to be. That bed being precisely 6ft is probably a good indicator.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It also explains why it's so incredibly stupid looking.

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  • [+] 22 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I hate to be seen as defending the guy since he went full Nazi, but …..

    Y’all have to remember he get paid in stock Options. When the stock tanks he gets nothing. However since it’s gone crazy over the last several years since they were originally granted, he made an obscene amount of money. He need it to keep rising.

    I’d like to see him put his money where his mouth is: let’s see him take the same deal, get paid in options, now that Tesla is tanking. Realistically it was a great car company in a lot of ways and I’d like to see it survive his craziness

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  • [–] 69 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Didn’t think you needed data to come to this conclusion.

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  • [–] 98 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It’s still generally good to back up claims with data rather than your gut. That’s what’s supposed to differentiate you and I from the Magats.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Yeah but it also leads to years-long gaps where it's "just" gut feeling when we knew all along what it was.

    "Scientists discover Trump supporters are narcissistic xenophobic assholes" - yeah we know.

    Then corporate news sewers publish it like "see we're on the side of truth" when MFs if you were on the side of truth you would have published this at the time, not four years later.

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Data always helps, that's why trump fired all the people with backbones.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    He fired the statistician that said our employment sucked.

    If we stop testing then there is no bad news. Should be this admins motto.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I want TSLA to get to the point where it can’t fall. It’s currently $300+ as of this post. Come on, y’all. Why are you still holding TSLA?

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    There are theoretical lower limits on the share price, where it can't go much lower. One is the Book Value Per Share, which is the value after all debts are subtractes from all assets, per share. This is the theoretical value per share of the company had to end and all assets were instantly liquidated, with no upside for future revenue at all:

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bvps.asp

    The numbers from the most recent quarter show Telsa with a BVPS of $23.98.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/TSLA/key-statistics/

    They also show that TSLA has more cash on hand than debt, $36B to $13B, and shows an operating profit. The stock price is not likely to crater until they start losing money on a regular basis, and even then they have a pile of cash they can use to stay afloat.

    Elon may be a moron, but the people who run their financial side seem to know what they are doing.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    They could also easily wind down some of their very high capital expenditures to last even longer. It'd mean slowing their growth and shelving some new ideas, things we probably haven't even seen, but that would dramatically change their balance sheet.

    Doing that isn't good for the long term though, it would just cause a stagnation loop leading to further scaling back, but as a temporary measure if cash preservation was important enough, it is an option worth tens of billions over multi year time frame.

    Edit: and by slowing growth I don't mean their car sales are declining so that's not growth, I mean maybe investing less in the AI super computer they are building, or not building a 2nd lithium refinery right away even if the 1st one works out as planned. The kind of things that are good for the future of the company, but you can't just throw money at when things might turn dire and you need to hang onto that cash for security.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Holy fuck! Who knew

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago

    Tesla just needs to update it's logo to better represent it's leadership:

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Toxic toddler Trump torpedoes Tesla trading trends.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    There was a EV show that used to pop up on my youtube that was basically Tesla show. I was wondering what happened to it, looked it up. Their view counts dropped by over half after Musk's Nazi salute.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I rarely see a Tesla where I’m from.

    I went to Charlotte to see Modest Mouse in June and I couldn’t even count the Teslas. It really surprised me.

    I swear to god everyone driving them appeared to be Indian. Not that it really matters, I just found it interesting.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    I bought my Tesla five years ago. I was really happy with the car until Elmo started going fash. Now I'm looking to sell it and I won't buy another one was long as he's around.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    What? Noooo…

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    If you buy a new Tesla, it will get vandalized.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago