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[–] 221 points 1 year ago (18 children)
  • [–] 152 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    Yep. Just because one side is bad, it doesn't mean the other is any good.

    Cryptocurrency is still dependent of a pyramid scheme and criminals-enabling. Credit card companies are still a private owned government branch with no concern for human rights and criminals-enabling.

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  • [–] 71 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    I learned recently FedNow is a payment processor ran by the Federal Reserve, with a fee of $0.043 per transaction. Making it much, much cheaper than every other payment processor out there.

    It just launched two years ago; I'm wondering if this might become more of a thing moving forward for digital payments.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    It's also a heck of a lot quicker to process, (effectively instant) and works even on holidays.

    And of course, banks like Bank of America, Capital One, and tons of other financial institutions simply refuse to use it, because that would mean spending money on changing their infrastructure, and making it more convenient for people to also use accounts outside of theirs.

    Seriously, it's been ages, and they've refused to use it at all, even though it's purely a financial and technical upside for every user once it's implemented.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You pay fees for transactions?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Every digital payment has transaction fees, yes.

    Credit card transaction fees for vendors are generally 1-3%, for example.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Every digital payment has transaction fees, yes.

    If you say so.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Which digital payment doesn't have transaction fees?

    Credit cards (vendor side), debit cards (vendor side), and crypto (consumer side) all have transaction fees. Paypal, venmo, etc all make their money from (vendor side) transaction fees as well. Is there a different type of digital payment you are using that doesn't have transaction fees?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Yep, but cryptocurrency isn't dictating what you can spend with it...yet at least. So if no government does anything to help us, then we must adopt a cryptocurrencies like Monero to fight back against censorship as nothing more than a private citizen.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This. Corporate shit weasels or supporting human trafficking.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    "We should restrict the free use of oxygen because terrorists can breath it to sustain themselves."

    C'mon. Crypto has issues, but this ain't one of them. Pandering to people's fear is how fascist seize power for themselves and perpetuate the horrors we feared in the first place.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    is the main problem with crypto who is on control? Bc it seems like ultra rich people. I have yet to see crypto become something people can do for themselves. You have to have the fastest gpu to solvw the puzzle first and get the coin, right? Maybe hierarchicalization is the problem.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Last time I checked, BTC transaction fees were prohibitively high to pay for 80$ AAAA games with them, and WAY too high to pay for a 5 USD single-developer itch.io game.

    I haven't looked at other Crypto in a while. I made some money off BTC, but I think it is wildly overvalued for a long time, and I've been disappointed in how un-currency-like other alternatives were, even those that have been around long enough that they are unlikely to be rug-pulls.

    That said, if you need to get paid and Visa/MC won't let you use them, I'm not going to attack you (too hard) for accepting Crypto. They are bad systems, but we live in Captialism, so you gotta get paid. They might be the least-worse system that is global and isn't Visa/MC. I'm unlikely to buy your product that way, tho; I'm more likely to pirate than I am to participate in cryptocurrency again.

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  • [+] 25 points 1 year ago (7 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    It's because the vast majority of people "into crypto" have no interest in the actual underlying asset. They're just hoping to get rich. I honestly think it destroys any potential crypto had. It's a shame because it would be good to have an alternative to credit cards for digital transactions, and especially to have a push payment method, as opposed to the pull method used by banks and credit cards

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  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I remember launching my wallet that I hadn't touched for years and I was hit with many days of syncing. It basically had to download gigabytes of data about blockchain since the last time I touched the wallet. I was blown away by the inefficiency and resource usage for seemingly simple things

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    It dominates because it's the one that everyone knows. If you're lucky enough to find a shop that accepts crypto it's almost certain that the crypto they accept is bitcoin and bitcoin only. despite its flaws it is a proven technology. It might 3 hours to send an on chain payment but you don't have to worry about a technical glitch dropping it.

    I somewhat agree about it being not great though. it has serious scalability issues that were supposed to be addressed by lightning but lightning adds a lot of complexity imo. My grandma is never going to be able to figure out how to use lightning whilst still being able to benefit from a self custody wallet.

    A lot of the newer coins that crypto bros bang on about seem to be centralized under private entities, "regulation friendly" and not distributed.

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  • [–] 64 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    Benefits of centralization: Someone can counteract harmful interactions.

    Drawbacks of centralization: Someone can decide legitimate interactions are harmful.

    It does suck when the “harmful interaction management system” goes haywire. But I’m not sure it sucks enough that I’d rather simply not have one.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I used to be one of the people firmly on the "someone can decide legitimate interactions are harmful, thus they should not ever exist" side of the argument, and I think this is certainly a good way of putting it.

    For a lot of people heavily into crypto, they see the drawbacks of the existing system, but instead of pushing for reform and legal changes, they try technological abolition of the entire mechanism altogether, without then realizing the tradeoffs that brings (e.g. how a lot of people will go "it's instant! Sellers don't have to worry about chargebacks! Nobody can take away your money from you!" yet don't think about how that also means a scammer taking your money is a permanent loss you can never reverse. (or if they do think about it, will argue that risk can be reduced to a point it is less harmful than the alternative, centralized companies)

    I don't deny crypto can be useful sometimes, or even be more beneficial when the centralized companies do eventually do something bad and people need an alternative payment mechanism, but I think a lot of people into crypto overestimate how beneficial it truly is compared to the tradeoffs.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    About the "nobody can take your money" part.

    Etherium Classic exists because somebody hacked an extremely valuable wallet and funneled 13% of all eth into their wallet. The people who control the mining pools, (rich assholes) wanted that transaction reversed, so they hard forked. Classic is the main fork that didn't reverse that transaction. It's much less popular, despite being run by people who are demonstrably more principled.

    Paraphrased from Dan Olson's video "line goes up" about crypto's history and affect on the world. Spoiler: it's a scam, and a tool for the wealthy to get even richer. Computing power can be bought with dollars.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Technically true, but chains nowadays aren't really vulnerable to that same kind of attack just due to their sheer scale and diversification of controlling stakes compared to what they used to be, so I wouldn't consider it a particularly relevant issue today.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    The relevant part isn’t which mistake happened, but that the fact that no mistake can be reversed.

    Fixing one mistake is great and all, but it’s still a method of accounting whose ledger — by design — cannot be revised.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago*

    Yeah it's a personal level of comfort sort of thing. Some people value one side of the equation while some people value the other side. Strong case for vendors accepting both cards and crypto instead of just one.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah. They do such a good job of stopping nazis and csam.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago*

    I trust completely in the central bank to fight fascism. It is necessary. The central bank fights for the laborer, not the capitalist. The central bank fights for freedom, not authoritarianism. The central bank ensures democracy, not an oligarchy. Without a central bank, our entire society would be doomed to fall to fascism. A centralized currency is a major facet between a free society and one with a corrupt dictator surrounded by crooked cronies where the wealthy have all the power and the common man is reduced to crumbs.

    The central bank is divine and good.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    "someone can decide you have zero dollars"

    free speech until your bank account goes away

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Regulation prevents that. You can’t regulate decentralized currencies, meaning you have zero protection 100% of the time.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Ah, the regulations that judges can just deem not legal? You do understand that checks and balances, right now, are pretty much gone? I'm not for a decentralized currency, I am just against irrationally worshiping centralization with zero concerns. Regulation capitalism is putting a band aid over a gaping wound, the real cure is socialism and socialism isn't regulations, it's a complete and total change of the system. If you think regulation is how we achieve socialism, you are wrong. Money shouldn't even exist, IMO, so I don't really care for the 'centralized' argument of something I fundamentally don't want to exist. Unless you can tell me how centralized banks are going to bring about socialism, I'm not sure what you're arguing in favor of if not capitalism. I'm sure there are ways of achieving gift economies and the like without centralized authorities and the possibility of unchecked executive power.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    yes, however the regulations will always have some corruption

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    uhhh... so the logic here is that if regulation isn't even an option then.... what exactly? What's better, wearing a helmet so your head doesn't get broken in, but leave your arms and legs uncovered, or just not wearing any protection at all?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Communism. Start small, connect networks.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    Nah man, you have to want fiat currency! Fiat currency is necessary, man! It's the only way for a safe and civil society! You want a gift economy? Who the fuck wants to give away shit haha. If I have money, I can keep my community safe by blasting away people who want to take it. In a gift economy or any other kind of anti-capitalist economy people would be incentivized to care for one another, which is unrealistic. We just have to regulate the people who want to kill over their money in a way that they can only kill for their money in socially acceptable ways like through cops and the criminal justice system. People need to know that money is deadly but we don't need to let them see the blood on the streets. As long as we get to say some people are criminals, people are happy that they got their money in a safe and legal way and followed all the regulations.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    you can prevent getting scammed with crypto by using something like escrow

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Doesn't protect against:

    • Social engineering
    • Contract code vulnerabilities
    • Untrustworthy/Compromised controlling stakes in that escrow, whether they be people or autonomous systems
    • False reversal claims made against the escrow

    It has the same possible issues for your financial sovereignty as a regular, centralized financial institution, plus technical issues with the way the underlying infrastructure is built.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Isn't this a right wing meme about centrists, but with the text changed?

    The Bitcoin side wouldn't catch you, because that interferes with the user's choice to hit the ground.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Credit card companies should be nonprofits under democratic control.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Could've would've should've

    So many things could be so much better.

    Poverty could end tomorrow if we wanted to.

    War could end tomorrow if we wanted to

    Healthcare could be free if we wanted to

    Same for schools and education in general

    "If we wanted to"

    Let me rephrase that: if either the top 1% would let us, or if the 99% would just stand up and take what's theirs, we could...

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Sure, lets replace a regulated scam with an unregulated scam, that will solve things /s

    https://www.web3isgoinggreat.com/

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    [–] 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Crypto is to peacocking men what MLMs is to american housemoms.

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  • [–] 99 points 1 year ago (39 children)

    Yeah, I'm going to buy my games with bitcoin now.

    Oh shit, the fee is higher than the price of the game, can I use Litecoin ?

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  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago* (11 children)

    The current Bitcoin transaction fee is $0.67. Which means for a purchase larger than $34, Bitcoin is cheaper than the average credit card transaction fee.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    I don’t have a credit card. If you pay per transaction, is there at least no monthly base fee?

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago*

    There are are no other fees for holding crypto, you only pay when you move it from one place to another, those fees change depending on time of day/week as well. Though some services (like coincards) may take additional processing fees.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    A credit card, in the US, has a transaction fee for the vendor, 1-3% of the purchase price, sometimes with a flat few cents fee on top.

    The consumer has no transaction fee, but does pay interest (around 28% annually) if they don't pay off the full balance every month (if they do pay it in full at the end of the month, there is no interest charge). Usually there will be a 1-2% cash back for the consumer as well.

    Some credit cards also have an annual fee for the consumer. These generally have higher cash back rewards and higher vendor transaction fees than those that don't.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Don't forget secured cards, which require an upfront deposit, and cards with regular monthly or annual fees, simply for having them, regardless of whether you use them or not.

    Thats the kind of credit cards you get offered if you are bad with credit cards (cough most Americans are cough thats kinda the whole business model cough), or, if someone steals your identity and you either don't have enough time or money or otherwise can't sufficiently prove to credit reporting agencies / banks that that is what happened.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Go to a credit union. Your local credit union will offer better rates and good limits with low fees compared to big banks. My first card at 18 was a secured card, $500 limit and a 4% interest if you didn’t pay off your card. After six months it went to am unsecured ans $1500 limit. All with no fees.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Yeah, I know it can be hit or miss depending on your location, but I have had similarly good experiences with my local credit union... you just prove to them in a more old fashioned way that you're responsible, and they'll often be flexible with you in ways that banks aren't.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    The merchant pays the fee. With cryptocurrencies, the consumer pays the fee. Some sites offer a discount for paying with cryptocurrency as a result. For example, most precious metals dealers who accept Bitcoin offer a 3% discount for using it.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    The current Bitcoin transaction fee is $0.67.

    For a ~60 minute confirmation target. It's $0.77 for a 20 minute confirmation target right now. The daily average is $1.03.

    And lets not forget that the only reason the price is so low now is because people aren't competing much for those transactions. If people actually used bitcoin to buy games the transaction fee would increase significantly.

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  • [+] -10 points 1 year ago (19 children)

    the fee might be higher at some points but you're just blabbering. check mempool.space and actually look at what fees are at rn + consider that there are many chains and l2s that can be used for payment. B)

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (18 children)

    A dollar in fees is a dollar more than with fiat for the person paying. That and do you expect enough normal people to learn about L2s and chains to make it worthwhile for Valve or whoever to implement support for anything besides the main chains of 2-3 major cryptos and stablecoins on ethereum main?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (13 children)

    A dollar in fees is a dollar more than with fiat for the person paying.

    Average credit card transaction fee is ~2%. So a dollar of Bitcoin fees makes Bitcoin cheaper for any purchase over $50.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    The transaction fee is not paid by the consumer (directly), and lord knows sellers are not going to lower prices based on payment method.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    sellers are not going to lower prices based on payment method

    Mullvad actually does this for their VPN service, which I think is great. For a VPN company that doesn't want to store identifiers about you, taking crypto makes sense because that also doesn't necessarily have identifiers about you attached that they could read or be required to store, unlike a card that requires your name, address, and card number.

    Other than that though, no larger companies are going to do anything of the sort, let alone be likely to even implement it as a payment method to begin with. Tons of additional technical complexity for little to no benefit.

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  • [+] 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Oh you're definitely paying the credit card fee too, but since it's the vendor who gets billed it's just priced into the product. That's why the product costs 10 Stanly nickle instead of 9 Stanly nickle.

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago* (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Pay same in cash or credit.

    Depends on the vendor. There are a bunch of places around me that offer cash discounts, which I make solid use of. Lets them lower prices for you as you aren't forcing a credit card transaction fee onto them.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    But it's not variable so the seller prices it in. Switch to Bitcoin and you have to pay it while prices likely stay the same. Also lately most of my games have been under 30 EUR tbh

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean either you care enough about payment processor censorship to go around them or you don't. If the extra dollar isn't worth it to you then that is what it is.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Nobody is going to rush to implement a payment system where the fees can change 5x hour to hour because that's just customer dissatisfaction waiting to happen.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    That's actually one of the matured parts of the crypto ecosystem that has existed for years already, as it was one of the most immediate needs. Last I checked Stripe and Bitpay were the most popular options for vendors.

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  • [–] 82 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Lmao, crypto tech bros coming out of the woodwork trying to get popularity for their bag holder's game...

    Also pretending that shit hasn't been bought up by wall street

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