http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/theodicy-6

Alt textOnce Simulation Theory logic is allowed, you can prove ANYTHING.

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[–] 21 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I mean if you take it from the view point that evolution and genetics is an intelligent system trying to maximize replication/ survival then technicallyyyyy human intelligence was designed by a far stupider intelligence.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    I mean, have you READ the book these people claim that said intelligence wrote?

    It's one boneheaded hissy fit and narcissistic meltdown after the other!

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  • [–] 10 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    It's not new, it's Lovecraftian. A god who births existence, yet for whom reason is entirely alien, whose natural state of being is utter profanity and incomprehensible madness. That's Yogsototh, brother

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  • [–] 7 points 1 day ago (4 children)

    We would definitely make dumber intelligences to do menial work, in fact for every super-intelligence there would be swarms of dumb-intelligences doing all the work you don't need a super-intelligence for.

    We could easily be a vast swarm of idiots whose society in total is calculating something. Well either that or we're a digital ant farm for entertainment, like Sims.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago

    We are pretty good at pattern recognition compared to other species, maybe we are pattern recognition machines, individually it’s not much but at a human scale our collective consciousness surfaces useful information out of the random chaos of the universe

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  • [–] 5 points 11 hours ago

    There's jumping to conclusions then there's diving into the conclusion abyss

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (13 children)

    Hmm, it was my understanding that in most theologies, the concept of omnipotence is incompatible with being dumb: a smarter creator would be "more powerful", and therefore "all powerful" implies infinite intelligence.

    Cool comic anyway.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago* (3 children)

    I disagree. I think there is a case to be made that you could be omnipotent but stupid. Consider an omnipotent god which has the capacity to increase its own wisdom, but chooses not to for lack of wisdom. Consider an omniscient god which can see all things, or even know all things, but cannot process all things in their context at the same time (or could make itself able to, had it the wisdom to perceive the problem). Consider an omnibenevolent god which seeks good outcomes, but for lack of wisdom does not successfully accomplish them. Consider an omnipresent god who's definitely here, right now, in this moment, but just doesn't understand enough of the context of all things to realize why it needs to pay attention to this set of events in particular, since it can just know about it afterward with its omniscience.

    No, we require a fifth potential quality of a completely perfect divinity (a quality clearly lacking in whatever divinity formed this cosmos): Omnisapience. An omnisapient, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent deity would never create this universe, but such an entity would be, definitionally, perfect. It seems, indeed, that the lack of omnisapience in a divine creator would be a requirement for the problem of evil.

    "It is a tale told by an idiot: full of sound and fury, signifying nothing"

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    An omnisapient, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent deity would never create this universe

    Unless such a deity decided to create all universes in which there exists at least one entity which would prefer to exist, instantiating all other entities in such a universe as philosopher's zombies...

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 child)

    Excellent point! I hadn't considered the possibility of a scenario where the whole universe is created for the sole benefit of a single real inhabitant, presumably oneself.

    I still maintain the necessity of omnisapience as a quality.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    Excellent point! I hadn't considered the possibility of a scenario where the whole universe is created for the sole benefit of a single real inhabitant, presumably oneself.

    He did a pretty bad job, you guys keep fucking around instead of worshiping me.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 14 hours ago (6 children)

    I generally don't care for the arguments of "an X creator must be Y, therefore Z". It's very similar to https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/divine-simplicity/, and always tries to sneak in an "ought" for an "is". From that link for example, "God is ontologically superior to every partite entity", what does "superior" mean? Why?

    So not to pick on you specifically, but I'd need to see a well-reasoned argument about why a smarter creator would be "more powerful". In fact, flip it on its head. A dumber creator is "more powerful" because it must require more power than a smarter creator in order to do the same thing.

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  • [–] 1 point 12 hours ago (5 children)

    It is not that a smarter creator is more powerful, but that an all-powerful creator, by virtue of being all-powerful, must be capable of expanding its own intelligence. If it cannot, it is incapable of something, which makes it not all-powerful.

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 11 hours ago (4 children)

    It must have no need to expand its own intelligence even though it could, for if it's all-powerful, it must be able to do everything possible, while being dumb.

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  • [–] 0 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

    A lack of intellect is a dis-ability. To be omnipotent, one must have perfect ability.

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

    To be omnipotent, one must be capable of giving oneself perfect ability. It doesn't require that one must have perfect ability.

    A being that is all-powerful despite having a disability must truly be more powerful than a being that doesn't have that limitation. In fact, the being that is all-powerful despite having the most limitations must be the most allest-powerfulest of all.

    This is just the semantic word games you get with terms like "all-powerful". I've never cared for arguing about the term, because it's ill-defined 🤷

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  • [–] 0 points 11 hours ago (1 child)

    I do not think a being can be all-powerful and have a disability, because a disability is a lack of ability. Any limitations must be self-imposed and not substantive—they would have to be purely symbolic—or the being would otherwise be limited, and therefore not omnipotent.

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  • [–] [S] -1 points 10 hours ago

    The being with a true disability that is all-powerful must truly be aller-powerfuler than another being that lacks that true disability.

    Yeah, it's a silly argument, but that's because theology as a whole is silly.

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  • [–] 3 points 14 hours ago (1 child)

    How can beings of limited intelligence design an intelligence that is superior to their own? If they were capable of doing so, would that not undermine the idea that they have a limit on their intelligence? They must necessarily be intelligent enough to comprehend a state of intelligence greater than their own and imagine it clearly and then bring it into reality.

    It would be more apt to say that an intelligence superior to our own would design itself after a certain point, at which point I don't think it's correct to say that we designed it, more that it evolved beyond it's own Human-designed limitations.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 hours ago

    I don't kmowbif the problem is my Lemmy app or what, but I can't resize this comic to make the teeny tiny text readable like I used to with smbc comics.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 hours ago

    there is actually a belief systems like this and not like the lovecraftian comment. Maybe more philosophy in belief systems but it goe back to ancient philosophers and was proposed with christian intellectuals.

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  • [–] 1 point 8 hours ago

    But we make AIs that are dumber than us for fun all the time. My favorite PC game as a kid was Creatures.

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  • [–] 1 point 13 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

    If we can design intelligences, most intelligences will be designed.

    How do you prove that creating beings do not number greater than the intelligences they have created?

    Of those intelligences, most will be smarter than us because otherwise they would have little use.

    We create simple machines and inferior artificial "intelligences" with limited capabilities for menial tasks. It seems to me that it would make more sense to create many inferior intelligences for menial works, especially in robotics. For example, in mining, to reduce human loss.

    We are likely designed intelligence.

    How do we know a god exists? Or how do we know this god can create intelligences like ours, just because we (for the purposes of this hypothetical) can?

    Our creator is even stupider [sic] than us.

    This assumes that designed intelligences must be superior to their creators, which is not logical, as I pointed out. Still, let us assume there is a creator that is, as this comic states, omnipotent.

    If this god is omnipotent, it would have, by virtue of omnipotence, no irremovable restrictions on its power, meaning it could expand its own intellect. So we cannot assume it is dumb.

    If humans are created for our use, as the comic suggests, then this god must be self-serving. If the god that creates humans is omnipotent (and therefore capable of expanding its intellect) and self-serving, why create humans? The only reason that is visible to me is for worship or some other self-gratification. Why make worshipers with superior intellect? Imagine "awesome is the god who has half our intellect" as a hymn of praise! If anything, it is an insult.

    God is all powerful and dumb.

    If a deity is all-powerful and dumb, that deity can increase its intelligence because it is omnipotent. One cannot be both omnipotent and incapable of increasing one's own intelligence. For if one is incapable of anything, that being cannot also be omnipotent. One could argue on this basis that, since a lack of intellect is a disability, it is a lack of ability, and therefore incompatible with omnipotence.

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