Is your point that Andy Yen should get a free pass on insulting his customers and his employees and making the product worse through his AI policy because Google and Microsoft are worse? I mean if that's how you choose which businesses to be a customer to, go ahead. But that doesn't mean the rest of us should.

Businesses should be accountable, and so should their executives.

How do you think Google and Microsoft got that way? Unchecked leadership. People are up in arms not because they don't see value in what Proton has done for the ecosystem, but for the very reason.

the CEO of Proton didn’t pass your purity test, I get it. But you know which CEOs also suck? The CEO of Google and the CEO of Microsoft

The CEO of Proton gave money to a dictator. And I have the same contempt and disgust towards Microsoft and Google, that's why I haven't used their products for years.

There are already private alternatives to Proton. It was one of the first to sell some privacy, but not anymore. It's also not a smear campaign IMHO, we know the facts, we can judge for ourselves. Proton is targeted towards privacy-conscious nerds who can and will check the alternatives. It's easy to see that Proton is not the best choice anymore.

People choose proton for security. Handing it over to AI is a huge security risk. Do you see the problem? They're not providing the service they promised.

Raising criticism of the actions of one company’s CEO is not an attack on all privacy-centered platforms. Besides, many of those who are criticizing Proton joined in the first place because they wanted to escape the Google and Microsoft ecosystems. I don’t think anyone is arguing that Proton is the worst of these three options or trying to push users back to Google or Microsoft, and there are other providers beyond these three to consider.

Did you read the 404 media article? Like more than the headline?

There is a slew of valid complaints against Andy Yen and assuming this must be a state actor means not holding them accountable, here's just a few points:

• Andy wants proton to fully embrace ai and said there would be re-interviews based on the employees use of AI. The implicit threat here was firing employees who don't embrace AI. This may have been walked back but it still says a lot
• Andy said this may be the last year they hire engineers. He wants to use AI and just have people supervise the AI.
• he thinks releasing untested code into prod is ok and that it's "loser thinking" to suggest taking a few days to test.

There's a lot more in the article but just from those points you have a shitty employer showing they don't value human talent and don't care about shipping potentially unsafe code which is especially problematic when they want to get rid of the people who could understand the code.

You're basically saying that that things should get a pass even if they aren't perfect. But that ignores the context of a privacy and security product that is showing unsafe practices. Other CEOs "sucking" is irrelevant. Those other CEO's aren't doing something antithesis to their stated goals. To me i could accept AI use in proton, however, it still needs to have engineers who can understand and review the code, and it still needs to be tested. That's not what Andy yen wants to do though, and that's the problem. It's not just about AI.

But bravo for the unpopular opinion.

I don't really appreciate your take that this is simply a case of one little guy failing a purity test. Maybe you need to consider the reasons why people use Proton in the first place, I'd argue it's not just because they are not google or microsoft.

People are seeking secure, trustworthy services that are worth spending actual money on. Andy Yen's comments, both internal and external, and the direction he wants to take the company in are, to many, at odds with the supposed code of ethics that attracted them in the first place.

So, if a company insists on having a CEO (at all, I would say, but especially one like Yen) that takes the company in a different direction, I think customers have every right to quit. And whine, because of the wasted time and effort they put into that company.

Hottest take, it's okay for people to not pay for services for whatever reason they want. It's also okay to pay for whatever you want as well.

Feel free to keep paying, it's cool.

Fuck proton and their slop loving leader; this post is gaslighting 101. People don't want this bullshit and corpos keep slobbing the Ai knob, and their response is to double down on it when people criticized them. They can get fucked.

There's always some arshole who thinks that people are too hard on companies for insulting their employees or supporting fascists or violating peoples privacy. I'm so fucking tired of it, no wonder nothing changes.

It's become painfully obvious to me that people in general cannot think without binary good/bad being front and center. Proton deserves criticism and we should demand better. But I've encountered dozens, maybe hundreds, of users who either outright say they are as bad as Google, or want you to think that by the novel they wrote to convince you.

It seems impossible for most people to become concerned and criticize without outright damning and becoming defensive and enraged if you suggest not doing that. You cannot even suggest something completely reasonable and true like "nothing is perfect" without a commenter stopping reading right there and telling you what a garbage human you are for welcoming fascists into the world. Those reactions just tell me that a lot of people are so isolated, they'd never be able to converse with a typical person, who btw has never heard of proton, signal, or any other app that is less shitty to use. Because those types of users will bite your head off for anything perceived as standing up for apps/companies/platforms they have deemed impure.

proton has 500 employees. google and microsoft have almost 500 000 employees between them. also proton is a european company. in no way are they beholden to the same low standards as the american tech giants. we know they're shit, that's why they're not in the same conversation. and there are plenty of alternatives to proton, which means it's in their rational self-interest to be less shit instead of doubling down on being more shit.

this is less "unpopular", more "uninformed".

So you're entire argument is "what about ___?"

If only there were a term for such a logical fallacy

Absolutely worthy of an upvote, as it is indeed unpopular.

As it turns out, Andy has no immunity to the Find Out part. He is who and what he is, and the rest is just attempts at damage control.

Punt Andy, be responsive to the wants and needs of the user base, and I'll sign right up again.

I don’t have to give my money to Proton, or Microsoft, or Google. That’s a choice that I make, and that’s the free market.

Give too much money and power to people and they turn into megalomaniacs. It’s been proven again and again. It’s up to us as consumers to vote with our wallets when CEOs start getting chummy with fascists.

My hot take: people aren't hard enough on Proton

Well…

Security is serious. If there’s evidence Proton executives are suffering from AI Psychosis, that is a threat to the platform’s security, and we won’t find out until it’s too late.

That is an unacceptable risk.

But that aside (let’s say for using Proton as a less sensitive email/service)… I agree.

In that sense, it’s like Linux. People raised an absolute fuss over the kernel’s LLM policy, accusing Torvalds of all sorts of things, and guess what? Linux hasn’t changed one bit.

For low security usage, I’m willing to wait until problems actually show up in Proton’s software, to support a competitor to Google/MS with serious critical mass, and hope their leadership is changed, as clearly many employees there are doing good work.

I'm not canceling my Proton, but I'll continue to monitor their privacy policy while im a customer.

Okay, so the CEO of Proton didn’t pass your purity test

Didn't pass the asshole test.

Hot take. Proton provides a false sense of security to it's users. Anyone worrying about proton now was never serious about security in the first place.

Yes, you're right.

“I’m going to uproot my workflow and make my life harder by migrating to another service or array of services to avoid giving money to people who don’t share my ideals.”

Barbara Walters: “You’re damaging an entire industry.”

Google and MS is a US company and they have to suck the ai companies off to attract investors and grow the bouble, while proton a "privacy" focused service is based on EU and they choose to suck the ai companies off for idk why, also proton CEO is a major dickhead just like google and MS or any major tech CEO really

Smh my head

IKR! Its like trump. I mean. Is he reeeaaallly worse than hitler?

Fuck em all.