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[–] 59 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Why would European riots/protests spill over to America? That's not how this works.

Americans have been protesting. Rioting, not so much. Those are much more rare in the US than France.

Mass movements spring from the ground up, and the American working class quite famously doesn't see themselves as part of the global working class. Solidarity protests are few and far between.

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  • [–] 7 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    Americans have been picnicking at unprecedented scale.

    I saw a thread about it where someone asked "Ok, but what are our demands this time? All this turnout is useless if we don't do anything with it".

    The answer given? Vote.

    ... That was all. ...

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  • [–] 10 points 4 days ago* (1 child)

    People are getting tear gassed, pepper sprayed, beaten, shot, etc., how is that a picnic exactly? You lose an eye picnicking? Pretty hardcore picnics over here in the states...

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  • [–] -1 points 3 days ago

    The comment was on the fecklessness of the 'resistance', not downplaying the brutality of the established order.

    Americans have been taught "the right way" to resist by their class enemies. At this rate they'll frog-costume-dance all the way into the camps holding hands and chanting "this is the way".

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  • [–] 92 points 5 days ago (24 children)

    US doesn't have a social safety net for people to fall back on. So people here can't afford to lose their jobs by being out protesting for weeks.

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  • [–] 53 points 5 days ago (4 children)

    I wish I could upvote this more than once. Without social safety nets, the average American cannot do anything to jeopardize their job without losing health benefits or income - and most folks are living paycheck to paycheck.

    If mass firings happen, and people realize they will literally be fucked unless they can force the government to listen, then maybe we'll see wider scale protests.

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  • [–] 26 points 4 days ago

    I used to think that Americans are just too lazy and ignorant to protest, that it's just excuses, but... when COVID hit and tons of people got either fired or just couldn't go to work, suddenly there were protests everywhere. That made me reconsider my position in a big way.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    That is precisely what a revolution is about. It is about forcing the government's hand. If we worry too much about the idea of social safety nets while we protest, we will never get anywhere. Revolutions were never about being convenient or cozy. It's about fighting for a better tomorrow for the benefit of all who oppose tyrannical strangleholds.

    I don't understand why people feel they should comfortably protest without worry of losing their jobs and everything. When, you're going to lose them anyways one point or another and it won't be your fault either.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 days ago

    I hear you, but there's a material difference between

    • if I protest, I could lose my job, family healthcare, and roof over my head
    • I don't want to protest because it's inconvenient/discomforting.

    There's also a matter of critical mass. We've had it drilled in our head that unions are bad precisely to discourage group action. If I protest our use of AI at work, or if I want to raise a complaint against the local government, and I'm alone? That will 100% end with severe personal repercussions. If my team of 5 walk out, that's harder to fire all of us, but absolutely doable.

    If the entire division walks out, then we have some change leverage.

    Now scale this out to the ~340M Americans, and you can see the problem.

    Also, critical mass affects the area of effect - if utah loses their shit over something, how does that impact New York? Missouri? Answer, not really at all.

    So you need something that will get a critical mass of 340M people, across 3.1M sq miles (8M square kilometers). Can that happen? Sure.

    Sure it can.

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  • [–] 18 points 5 days ago

    We're also a settler colonialist state. We're set up from the foundation as a society that respects property rights over human life. People get shot for knocking on someone's door asking for help here. Our police torture and kill with impunity, and we imprison more of our population than any European country by far. It is hard to build strong working class movements but we have had some bright spots in recent history. But it's also true that rioting in a few US cities wouldn't have the same impact here as it does in France.

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  • [–] 23 points 5 days ago

    It's also a huge country that's very diverse, so one region or state isn't going to be aligned with others they don't even know to have solidarity.

    But there will start being hot spots for the same reasons in Europe. It's possible the US has better tools to control and pacify any movements (with work dependence - money and healthcare, being one of them).

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  • [–] 17 points 5 days ago (7 children)

    Ding ding ding. We can’t get healthcare if we’re unemployed, we’ve been broke for a long time, and we can’t pay the rent if we lose our jobs. Calling out to protest when our bosses can fire us for literally any reason means we’re inches from homelessness at any given time.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (5 children)

    This is more why you must protest and insist on change, than any possible excuse not to.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago

    It’s a lot to ask people be homeless for “the cause” a cause with no defined leaders, demands, or support. Build a community where people know they’ll have a couch to sleep on, a meal in their stomachs and hope to be rehired once it’s said and done and you’ll get your revolution. Everyone wants to skip the build a community part and go straight to the uprising but it doesn’t work that way

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    It's like we have to. Voting? People think voting is going to change things? Not when we've got an active tyrant looking to upset voting polls at the mid-terms or worse, the next general election. Especially when we have a political party that outright will not play things fair and square once they got power.

    Voting is like a passive aggressive way of change. We're past that point and we've been past that point.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

    US only has safety nets for the wealthy, gambled with large sums of other people's money on stupid shit and lost it all and fucked up the stock market for everyone and started a recession, there there, here's sone public tax money to pick yourself up

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  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago (2 children)

    We pulled it off with occupy wall street

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  • [–] 13 points 5 days ago

    There is no reason to think that would happen

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  • [–] 27 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (10 children)

    There are already riots and protests here and it's been happening for years, not sure where you are getting your information from if you think otherwise.

    Now, I think these will intensify if anything illegal happens with the midterms, more people will definitely lose their shit at that point, but protests have been pretty steady in every state. In fact, they have been record setting protests, so to imply people aren't already protesting in the US definitely not true at all.

    I suspect maybe the corporate owned news is part of the reason so many people think it's not really happening, but it is and if you make a point to look for examples, plenty are available.

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  • [+] [S] -9 points 4 days ago (9 children)

    I get my news from many sources, I know about the No Kings protests. They pale in comparison to what's happening somewhere like Paris. If a protest is inconsequential, then it means very little, people go about their day.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago (6 children)

    Many corporate news sources by the sound of it. Believe what you like I guess.

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  • [+] [S] -11 points 4 days ago (5 children)

    Judge me all you want and downvote with your bot net, it's meaningless.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

    I don't have a botnet. I'm guessing it's more because you're just full of shit and people are downvoting you (you know, because you're full of shit). It's Lemmy though, so votes are visible. If you're that paranoid, go check for yourself!

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  • [–] 4 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    They pale in comparison to what’s happening somewhere like Paris.

    Protests and disruption in Minnesota did a lot at the beginning of this year. There were many violent clashes coming out of those protests. Two protestors were killed, dozens were permanently injured or disabled, hundreds more were hospitalized, and thousands were arrested. And the result of those protests were the firing of the senior official in charge of the Department of Homeland Security, several other immigration officials, and a major pullback of operations, an end to that style of aggressive immigration enforcement operations.

    Meanwhile, other action included legal work that got literally thousands of arrestees released and the resignation of many of the prosecutors brought on to try to investigate and prosecute fraud in the Somali American community, a racially targeted and legally unsupported use of law enforcement resources.

    The whole operation was also a disaster for the popularity of the ruling party, and we'll see in the next 16 hours or so just how badly this costs them in the actual power structures of our governments.

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  • [–] 9 points 5 days ago
    [–] 7 points 4 days ago

    Ask me after the midterms.

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  • [–] 19 points 5 days ago (6 children)

    Apart from the valid things that have already been mentioned in this thread: police violence in the USA is a thing. Hell, you can get shot for helping a fellow protestor. Yes I know, police != ICE, but if a real riot breaks out, I can imagine sending in the most ruthless (and psychopatically trigger-happy) shock troops to quell them.

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  • [–] 13 points 4 days ago* (2 children)
  • [–] 17 points 4 days ago

    Yes ACAB sure, but there is much less accountability. One of my friend works on a think tank that advices governments, hidden sources of protests and recommendations.

    They've stopped taking US city clients. Let me explain why.

    they'd have list of 15 recommendations, on how to deal with protest, top 10 generally aimed at addressing root cause and then maybe 5 or so for addressing issues with protests, like containing them in certain areas and for legal liability reason one recommendation has to be "arrest destructive protestors".

    How this is interpreted in Europe is arrest someone who breaks a glass window and what ends up happening is police then beat up someone suspected of doing this. Sometimes suspect gets maimed, I don't think any have died for protest that the think tank covers.

    How it happens in US is that think tank's recommendation is quoted in courts as justification for trying to arrest a "agitating protestor" and then slightest hint of refusal just get arrested, the protestor gets shot. In 2024 alone US cities used think tanks recommendations in court 3 times. 7 protestors killed across 5 cities. Most don't even make the news if protests are few hundreds in a small city.

    I helped with formating of the presentation my friend used to convince board of think tank to stop taking US clients.

    Anyway point being, there is difference between US police brutality and European one.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago

    No it isn't and I am not saying that it is. Actually, our media are doing their best to downplay racist police violence in one of our biggest cities.

    To return the whataboutism: in the US, as a toddler, you can get killed by the police because your mother alledgedly stole some groceries (and because you happen to have the wrong skin color). If that is the bar for police violence, I can only imagine what will happen during an aactual riot (as in looting stores etc).

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  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago* (2 children)

    This still isn't stopping people from protesting in the US. Whoever says there isn't protesting here is just straight up wrong, that is pure disinformation. I have seen the streets lined with protesters in multiple cities and towns on numerous going back years.

    People are standing up despite the risk.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    You are not wrong and I am not saying that there are no protests. Where I live, protests in the US are severly underreported (due to fear of the far right), but I am aware of them. I was referring to riots, with barricades, looting and all that stuff. As far as I am aware, that is not happining in the US right now, but please feel free to correct me.

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  • [–] 12 points 5 days ago*

    Folks in the US are both comfortable enough and unsteady enough that they will not move. It was Zizek about a week back who said it, people are not desperate enough yet to get to this stage. *** sniff! ***

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  • [–] 6 points 3 days ago
    [–] 16 points 4 days ago

    Actually i would like to see it reach Russia first.

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  • [–] 10 points 5 days ago (5 children)

    The US had the perfect opportunity on Halloween with the "de Flock" movement and that appears to have gone nowhere.

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  • [–] 7 points 5 days ago (3 children)

    How many flocks did you remove?

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  • [–] 5 points 5 days ago

    They don't even reach all of Europe

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  • [–] 5 points 5 days ago

    Depends if they come by boat or by plane.

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  • [–] 4 points 5 days ago

    If things go how a lot are thinking they’ll go, early this week sometime ideally.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 days ago

    Cops are going to go ape shit if their supply of cans of Pepsi gets cut off.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 days ago*

    I honestly think it'll hit Canada first. Our population is smaller than France's. Not that I'm advocating for it or anything

    Having grown up in the US, I don't see anything substantial happening short of civil war unfortunately. And even then it won't have clear borders, it'll be scorched earth class war

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  • [–] 18 points 5 days ago

    Americans when their country is overrun by fascists:

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  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago*

    I think they're planning a group dance over zoom. That or sending thoughts and prayers.

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  • [–] 6 points 5 days ago

    They are waiting to be rescued by the Europeans. They will await, with the guns beside them.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago

    If it doesn't happen by 1/4/27 it won't happen. I believe Max from UNFTR's theory that they'll deem a lot of candidate elects unfit to take the oath on 1/3. I predict more Americans will be worried about the Kardashians than the quiet coup and we'll continue marching toward feudalism.

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  • [+] 2 points 4 days ago
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 0 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

    You have to understand the cultural context translated between countries.

    When the french protest and riot and burn shit, that is the French cultural language of protest, a thinly veiled threat that the state is only in charge as long as the public gives it a mandate. If push comes to shove, the public can always find a new state to run things. They evoke the spirit of the French Revolution as a core message. It says "we did it last time, and if you force us, we'll do it again."

    Translating this to the American context, when the government became so corrupt that a Pedophile and convicted serial rapist and fraudster and his band of merry fascists and techno-trillionaires threaten the very foundation of American society, Americans do what they are culturally programed to do. They shoot up a school full of innocent children because deep down they know their culture has no future worth living and it should end out of mercy for future generations. It says "We are cowards for allowing this monstrosity to exist and it doesn't deserve to be experienced by anyone.".

    Understood in this light, they have been protesting for years and years with escalating ferocity.

    Edit: spelling and clarity

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  • [–] 2 points 5 days ago (2 children)

    I was just going to say that the average us person is just lazy and complacent but, yeah, I think you have put it more succinctly.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    they won’t. our capitalist owning class has ensured the workers are far too tired, depressed, poor, and infighting.

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