Pre-empting this to ask everyone to please remain civil.
We know that caffeine is poisonous to deer and that this is a sensitive topic. The Onion has great tips and tricks to help you remain calm in the moment.
Pre-empting this to ask everyone to please remain civil.
We know that caffeine is poisonous to deer and that this is a sensitive topic. The Onion has great tips and tricks to help you remain calm in the moment.
But on lemmy.ml, they told me voting for Democrats means you donβt care about trans people
lemmy.ml will always promote strategies which results in fascists winning. I'd like to think it's because they're just really naive and don't understand how anything works, but it's getting really hard to to keep thinking that's what's going on when their content is basically all about attacking the political opposition to fascism and they don't say a peep about actually opposing the actual fascists.
Yup, cause letting Republicans win=trans victory!/s
Well you have to accelerate miserable conditions if you want the workers to rise up. People might die, but they're just little trash people, so the ends justify the means.
They have promised to eat your faces:
https://bsky.app/profile/did:plc:m65ifh7vn5zdgs7izcmht4gy/post/3mynwzsux7k2u?ref_src=embed
Republicans can vote third party all day long. You will hear no complaints from me. If you are a Republican, please vote third party if you can't vote for anyone else.
Or just stay home. Consider not voting if you are a republican.
It's a form of political protest
In theory, perfectly reasonable, but in practice in a first past the post political system, you are helping whichever of the two main candidates you were least likely to vote for.
Mad at current candidates?! Join your local org; make better candidates. Protest by becoming a delegate instead.
Red or blue or green -- more of us involved at the lower levels means more representation at 'the top'. (at least Democratic; I don't know how the republican party works)
If we are staring down the barrel of a Gavin Newsom presidential run, and we all think that's a terrible idea (right?), we still have ability to push for and find better candidates by being part of the local precincts, who send delegates eventually to the national committee.
Where do you think those 'super delegates' come from, who is helping pick how to spend DNC advert money? The people who elect DNC leadership came from precincts.
What if I was 0% likely to vote for either of them?
Man that pissed me off. He said it right as early voting started. Choose third party because every side's bad. How would you fucking know Matthew? This is Texas. There's only been one side for 35 years. How the fuck would you know both sides are bad? Like I'm not saying he's wrong necessarily I just don't think he has that information.
And if you're going to sit there and blather about voting third party pick a fucking third party. Which third party Matthew McConaughey? Who you backing? Are you saying vote libertarian? You picking up the green party? I don't even remember seeing them on the ballot. Pick a candidate you bongo playing lunatic. Fucking coward.
If youβre willing to lose a cycle and hope that your preferred party learns a lesson from it, you can try. But the one thing the democrats have held strong as steel on is never learning from their defeats.
It's not about "which third party", that doesn't matter. You can change that per issue (I do).
You don't vote third party to win, that would be stupid. You won't win.
You vote third party to put pressure on the major parties to change their platform, you're working from within the system to change the system. It's a "protest vote"... and major parties want those votes.
Third party issues become major party issues with enough voter support.
For example, weed legalization was Libertarian, Green, and Socialist party cause since the 1970s, working with NORMAL (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws). Over the years, the grass roots (get it?) support grew and grew, even though the major parties were dead set against it.
Those third parties affected change on that issue in many states, and it continues. All thanks to third parties.
Most of their success is locally, not federally, which is in my opinion a lost cause, but again it's not about the party, it's about the issues.
Then why doesn't he do that? What's his issue? Which party this time? You see my point? He's not picking a third party. Because frankly there's not one. Not in Texas. Not this year.
There's not an issue he's backing. There's not a candidate he's backing. There's not a change he's trying to force. After all it's Texas the change would be not Republican. 35 years of the same party controlling the state top to bottom if you want change you'd want that to change. But that's not what he wants. He's not trying to get you to vote for third party. He's trying to get you to not vote Democrat. Him and his friend Greg Abbott don't want that.
By the way just as an aside, the Texas green party is a fucking travesty. They are simply the worst. They don't stand for anything anymore. In my local elections the best environmentally conscious candidate by a mile wouldn't even run under their ticket because was so disgusted with them.
Voting third party only works when you're protesting a single dominant party OR when you're voting in RCV or equivalent types of votes where your protest vote doesn't become a spoiler helping fascists
It doesn't not work when you're protesting the challenger to the dominant evil party which is the greater threat, then you actually have to protest
*nervously looks around for people who would shoot me for having magnificent horns or voting ninth party*
"Voting ninth-party" sounds like a level of abstraction that describes writing in a termite mound in the Gondswana Rainforests.
Why so abstract? We have 5 parties that have seats in parliament and 9 other registered parties that don't.
"Third-party" in the context of US politics (I think that's where it comes from and is most widely used, owing to its major structural problems that almost inherently create only two major parties federally) is an abstract term referring to any minor political party, not specifically the third-most-popular. There's no such thing as "voting fourth-party", so an nth level of abstraction beyond that becomes absurdist.
with the coalition-building and last-minute allegiance changes that goes on in this country it might as well be
America is fucked and voting for anything other than the big two is throwing away your vote.
Or we could have rank choice voting! Some places do!
Yeah I live in Australia where we have preferential voting.
I have always voted left of our major parties, because like the rest of the world, our major "left wing" party is centre right and our right wing is way too far to the right. Everyone right if that is extremely racist or a billionaire. Usually both.
But we have options, and even if the major party wins they have to negotiate with the smaller parties if we've won them seats in parliament. Voting for the minor parties and independents first based on policy sends a message that these are the things that matter to us. If they want to win the next election they'll have to support them or we'll continue voting for the minor parties.
The liberals (our right wing party) handled covid and the following months so poorly that they were essentially ousted in western Australia. They are so small now that they hold the same amount of power as the minor parties. Labor (the "left wing" major party) won 46 of the possible 59 seats and the liberals only got 7. They've had to form a coalition with the slightly more right wing minor party to have any voting power. Which has caused them to slip even further right and lose even more votes in the following local elections.
or... representative democracy. where nobody "wins", and the percentage of votes decides the percentage of representatives in parliament.
This one would require more reworking of our Legislative Branch. There are 435? Representatives currently, so the country is broken up into 435 house districts, with each district/ community voting for a single person to represent them. So you have a quantization problem; you can't really split a single person.
I'm not saying I can't imagine a world where we do it (whole states vote for all the Representatives from their state?), only that meaningful change is an uphill battle against 250 years of coagulated inertia + notably bad actors now diffuse through the system.
here voting for a representative is optional. you vote separately for what party you want to govern locally and nationally, and they get that percentage of the seats (with a lower bound of 4%) to assign members to. if you want a specific person in a seat, you mark their name, and they'll get a guaranteed seat if a certain number of people mark them (and there's enough seats).
we're actually in the middle of an election fraud investigation right now because a relatively unknown member of a party got enough personal votes to get a national seat, and all of them came from the area where he lives. it sounds less serious when you learn that the total number of votes needed for him to get in was about 800, and that was split over three districts.
Sigh... I was that guy in my 20s, voted for Ross Perot twice. Didn't expect him to win but I wanted to send a message to Washington that I wasn't happy with either party. He got 20% in '92 and 8% in 96.
THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR SUCH SHENANIGANS.
Perhaps the deer introduced (bi)proportional representation and are living the good life now?
That's what allows me to vote 6th party without making my vote useless.
lemmy when you talk about killing politicians π
lemmy when you mention third parties π€
We need to dismantle a large portion of the primary parties to make third parties viable.
Or you could... vote in the primaries?
The US has a convoluted run-off system that really should be simplified, but you can vote to select which of the two finalists will stand in the general election. Of course it falls apart for MAGA and leftist types (basically the same kind of people) that think if the majority of people voted for someone they don't like it must be because the system is somehow rigged.
Everyone in my social media bubble thinks the same way so there's no way people voted for someone who's not MAGA/communist! The system must be rigged!
In most states, primaries are how a party picks its own nominee. Voting in the Democratic or Republican primary chooses which Democrat or Republican is on the November ballot. It doesnβt help a third party at all. Many third parties donβt use state-run primaries; they nominate at conventions. And in closed-primary states, like Maryland, you can only vote in the primary of the party youβre registered with.
The bigger hurdles come before and after the primary. First, a third party has to get on the ballot. That usually means collecting petition signatures or meeting a vote or registration threshold, and the rules differ by state. Then the candidate has to win a plurality in the general election, where the spoiler dynamic pushes voters back toward the two major parties. Primaries donβt change either of those.
Some primary systems make it worse. California and Washington use βtop-twoβ primaries, where only the two highest finishers advance regardless of party. Third-party candidates almost never place top two, so theyβre usually absent from the November ballot entirely.
The system is wired against third parties. They have to work significantly harder just to be eligible to be voted for.
That's why you can't "Just vote in the primaries"
In most states, primaries are how a party picks its own nominee.
Uh yeah? Pick one of the two the parties that's closest to your views and vote in the primary to pull them closer. Be prepared for the possibility that other people in that party might not quite agree with you. That's just how it goes in a democracy.
Being butt-hurt over people having different views from yours and therefore voting differently than you'd like is a property common to MAGAs and leftists. Maybe the majority of people will never agree with you. It's up to you to convince people of your views. If you can't do that, you have to accept that either you're not good at convincing others, or it might even be possible that you're wrong about some things. Either way democracy isn't about you getting your way every time.
Voting third party in a system that doesn't allow third parties (but does allow you to vote for the leader of one of the two parties) or being "uncommitted" is just immature. Throwing a temper tantrum ovet the majority of people not agreeing with you so wanting to spoil everything for everyone.
Except the DNC icing out Bernie in 2016 clearly indicates that they aren't actually democratic, they clearly indicated that they are a private org with no legal requirements to enact the will of the people.
All that said, you better believe I'm still voting for the not fascist party, but also still trying in my weak little ways to advocate and advance ranked choice voting to enable the undermining of the two party system.
Tbf you can only talk about killing republicans, democrats can do no wrong.
Now remember to go vote in the primaries even though the DNC won a court case on the basis of "we're a private corporation and therefore do not have an obligation to provide a fair process to voters, we can act in the interest of the Party Leadersβ’ instead," that'll help!
(Wilding, et. al. v. DNC Services, d/b/a DNC and Deborah βDebbieβ Wasserman Schultz)
E: haha don't downvote the messenger, it's your precious DNC that did it, go downvote them! Oh you can't because "vote blue no matter who" huh? How's that working out?
Here we have a person who has been completely subsumed by talking points. Their brain replaced by propaganda, no longer capable of original thought. Doomed to repeat "Haha I'm right and you can't stand it!" until they die of smug ignorance.
A literal court case affirming that the DNC isn't obligated to respect the will of its voters is "just" a "talking point" or "propaganda?"
Methinks your catchy little slogan "vote blue no matter who" is actually the propaganda/talking point, pot meet kettle.
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