I have no idea what there is not to understand about this...and why it's mostly men complaining about "protecting women's spaces", lol.

This might upset some people, and you know what? Good.
If this upsets you, at least the others will know and the trash can take itself out.

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[–] 79 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

the notion that trans women are disruptive in the bathroom is so mindbogglingly absurd considering we spend all our lives trying to be as invisible as we can in the bathroom or not using public bathrooms at all out of fear.

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  • [–] 38 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)
  • [–] 24 points 3 weeks ago

    The transphobe, weirdly, thinks this example is an interaction between a man and a woman in a bathroom. And they can straight faced say #NotAllMen while they do it, too.

    The terf ideology is incoherent.

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  • [–] 54 points 3 weeks ago (17 children)

    Speaking with a stranger in a bathroom 🤨

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  • [–] 38 points 3 weeks ago (9 children)
  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)
  • [–] 38 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    I've had a lot of short bathroom chats, mostly like in the meme, with other women in the bathroom. It's always nice to throw a compliment at a good pair of earrings or help a mom juggling all the things with the door. That kinda thing.

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  • I get really nervous whenever anyone talks to me in a bathroom. Like, my anxiety there gets boosted to x1000, and I just want to finish fast so I can get outta there because I just feel like I'm doing as if I were making a fool of myself.

    Though if I have to help with something (idk, something of theirs fall into the ground), I'll stand over it. But just because I love being helpful. Then I'll be again like Bocchi (from Bocchi the Rock!)

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    It's weird to talk to strangers in general, and to compliment a stranger, in a bathroom.. Maybe it's a cultural thing

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  • [+] -9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    If you think your distaste Is actually due to cultural differences and it’s something so stupid as a bathroom comment maybe don’t say it? Or is it normal to be a rude ignorant asshole in your culture?

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  • [–] 20 points 3 weeks ago*

    Did I touch a nerve? I just pointed out a thing that's strange to me, as people do on social media. I didn't expect to get this kind of reaction. If anything you're the rude ignorant asshole here

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Try it, it'll change your life.

    I used to have the worst peeshyness or whatever you call it=> can't pee around other people at the urinals.

    I managed to solve it as follows: say it out loud "oh pee already" to yourself.

    You'd be very surprised how many people immediatly talk courage into you.

    "Ah don't worry about it, we all have it, take your time".

    (Of course take this advice with common sense, if you feel unsafe for a valid reason gtfo there)

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  • [–] 16 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    The last time I spoke with a stranger in the bathroom, I was washing my hands after taking a leak, and a guy walked in and said, "Pissed all over your hands, did ya?"

    And then he proceeded to use the bathroom and leave without washing his hands.

    I do want it to be clear that I did not piss all over my hands. I just wash my hands after using the restroom.

    You know, like a person that isn't a fucking disgusting freak.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 weeks ago

    That's on that other person to feel shame, for not washing their hands but even more importantly. For giving such utterly useless and childish remarks.

    Walk with your head held high, washer of hands. You stand with the warriors who fought in the covid wars.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 weeks ago

    Earlier this year I was in a busy bathroom and this person had a cute shirt with birds on it. I complimented the shirt. She randomly told me to check out a bird park in a faraway city. I liked that shirt.

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  • [–] 37 points 3 weeks ago (12 children)

    One of the things that scares me about the bathroom ban is now cis male predators can enter bathrooms saying they're trans men. If we just play the numbers... there's way more men than trans people. The risk is greater.

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  • [–] [S] 19 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    Exactly. This stuff is terrifying. These bans really don't "protect" anyone. It's almost like protection isn't the point...

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  • [–] 15 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    look at how the SAME people who are viruently transphobic and pushing the "protect women" stuff are also either silent or outright defending both the cornell 7 or defending the cis guy disrupting the wnba

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  • [–] [S] 13 points 3 weeks ago

    Yes. This is so true it hurts...
    Fuck anyone who defends any kind of rape. I hate that with a burning fucking passion. The victim is NEVER to blame, no matter fucking what. It's always the rapist's fault. And it's scary that some people don't understand that...
    Fuck this world.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    The goal is also for cis women to suffer. They hate all women.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Never forget that transphobes targeted a cis woman, Imane Khelif, who won gold at the Olympics. Many of the more prominent ones stand by their bullying years after.

    It's always been about making women they view as lesser suffer.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 weeks ago

    This sounds absurd on the face of it.

    Then I think about how awful these loud and proud transphobes are, and then I’m just sad realizing there’s WAY more than a non-zero chance of them patrolling bathrooms in their zealous crusade. Or just to use it as an excuse to assault women.

    Fuck.

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  • [–] 15 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    I’m suddenly reminded of the “I’ll wipe my hands on my pants/penis” incident.

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  • [–] [S] 19 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)
  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Unfortunately the video I was talking about with Sophie herself went private because of reasons, but this is another video about the event.

    https://youtu.be/V_KxccFRKqE

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  • [–] 7 points 3 weeks ago

    Hello based dept.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 weeks ago (17 children)

    This is all about getting laws on the book that are different for men and women. The law is supposed to be blind. Your gender should have no bearing on how it investigates, prosecute, litigates, judges, and sentences an individual. If they can define what a women is by law, they can define how a woman is to behave and be treated. Sadly somehow we've been tricked into wanting the laws for women ourselves. That's what the whole trans panic is about. Suddenly, a women will be defined by her ability to and willingness to be pregnant. Yall have been warned. Some high profile cases have gotten dangerously close to breaking how the law sees men and women. And that's the last thing women should want because those laws will give the state more control over women in the same way the state can control children.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Some high profile cases have gotten dangerously close to breaking how the law sees men and women. And that’s the last thing women should want because those laws will give the state more control over women in the same way the state can control children.

    The law has never been blind to gender. I'm not sure how this is a warning when it was never neutral to begin with?

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    On paper it was moving towards seeing women as more equal. We are talking a step back on both sides of the isle. (In my opinion.) Protecting trans women, protects everyone.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 3 weeks ago (12 children)

    Okay, I honestly don't entirely comprehend your comment, so please bear with me here...
    The law is supposed to be blind, yes, I agree wholeheartedly with that. I believe in bodily autonomy, I believe everyone should have a right to their body, no matter fucking what. Things like criminalizing abortion are based on misogyny, discrimination, hate, utter fucking stupidity and the desires of old, white cis men to control women's bodies.
    I hate it when governments do that. I find it oppressive, quite frankly, and I think it's plain wrong.
    Now, here's what I don't understand about your comment...

    Sadly somehow we’ve been tricked into wanting the laws for women ourselves.
    That’s what the whole trans panic is about.
    Yall have been warned.

    I really hope I'm misunderstanding this...but are you implying that these oppressive actions by oppressive governments...are the fault of trans people?
    I absolutely despise the state having more control over women and blaming it on trans people...just seems wrong and a bit silly.

    Again, I'm tired and I may be totally misunderstanding this. I hope I am. Please correct me, I am not the brightest 🙏
    Also, not trying to pick a fight. Just genuinely curious. Sorry for the dumb question.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (11 children)

    No, I'm saying that these bathroom and sport laws, aren't about 100% about keeping Trans women out of bathrooms and sports. (that's just icing on the oppression of women goal of the right) The only federal laws currently on the books that care about gender are ones that say women must be treated equally. Now take away the safe guards of Roe v Wade provided for men and women. (very few people understood what that law ment.) RvW said the government under equality doctrine of the government has no standing to know what men discuss with and treatment received from their medical providers. So now with RvW overturned that standing is removed. Now here's the trick, men for the most part are not going to the doctor to get medical treatment for something seen as illegal. Trans women are being used as a counter weight to say see men are doing something illegal to abuse women in bathrooms and sports. We need to fight to go the other way to the other extreme. Gender neutral bathrooms. Less separating and men and women in sports; mainly in amateur competitions. (Yes the more physical the sport there needs to be rules and more opportunities for mix gender and separate divisions/leagues to accommodate every individual and skill level) This also includes crime. Men and women should never been seen as different. Because of they are, that never ends well for women and the lgbtq community.

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  • [–] [S] 9 points 3 weeks ago (10 children)

    Right, so I basically completely misunderstood your entire comment. Thanks so much for clarifying that 💜
    You make some very good points and I agree with you on them. Really, thanks for the clarification! <3

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (9 children)

    I try to remove the oppressed from the narrative asap when talking about macro issues because it requires people to step outside their demographics. When focusing so hard on one aspect you miss the big picture. If they can define what a women is, (meaning drawing a line to disqualify trans women.) that will quickly allow them to draw another line. Are women born without a uterus still a women? Is a woman who's masculine looking still a woman? Is a woman with no desire to be a mother, a woman? These questions force anti Trans women to think.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago* (8 children)

    I agree - and that's not even a speculative possibility either, they've already started out in the open for everyone to see...

    Look at the Olympics, they used to (without any issues) only require trans women to show 2 years on HRT in medical records, and a recent blood test showing hormone levels within average cis women ranges... Then after Trump and co, now that was scrapped. Now, they test for the SRY gene (a test that is widely condemned as disproportionate). This means anyone who has the SRY gene (which as far as I'm aware only activates once in the womb, and is what causes the development of male genitals) is immediately disqualified from taking part in women's sports

    This obviously targets trans women regardless of hormones and medical history, but also targets any cis woman who is found to have the SRY gene. It's rarer, sure, and terfs would argue that can't happen with their basic biology they learnt at 6yrs old... But it is possible for the SRY gene to translocate from the Y chromosome onto an X chromosome in the womb... Causing a cis woman who grew up her entire life as a woman with no difference in sex characteristics, with XX Chromosomes, to be found with the SRY gene even if it never activated during development... And the Olympics even recognised this, and just shrugged their shoulders. So in the eyes of the Olympic rules, they don't even consider cis women who may have the gene (and be unknowingly intersex) to be eligible women. All for the sake of "fairness"

    Honestly, I feel as though if we just mandated that everyone should have to get a chromosome test, there'll be so many cis people who find out that they're intersex that the whole culture war aimed at trans people falls apart because they no longer can stand on the pedestal of "the majority" and become so much more aware that sex and chromosomes aren't as black and white (or bio-essentialist) as some may think...

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago* (4 children)

    Honestly, I feel as though if we just mandated that everyone should have to get a chromosome test, there’ll be so many cis people who find out that they’re intersex that the whole culture war aimed at trans people falls apart because they no longer can stand on the pedestal of “the majority” and become so much more aware that sex and chromosomes aren’t as black and white (or bio-essentialist) as some may think…

    I love your energy, but this would require conservatives to show integrity and consistency in acknowledging the truth. We all know at this point that there is no truth for them but what they want, and whatever they have to say or do at any given time to get it. The tests would happen behind closed doors, the results would be them saying it's whatever they want it to be based on their judgement of the person at a glance, and everything else would be the dog and pony show to distract from or justify this happening.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Very true, though I think it would bring a lot more people who are current fence-sitting, or just don't know anything about trans people/healthcare and prone to fall for conservative lies, into the know on just how silly the transphobic rhetoric is

    There will definitely still be a lot who will die on the hill they've created, or actively try to make up new lies or even just repeat their old ones with the large billionaire backing they have... Confirmation bias is a hell of a thing, as well as just the deep hatred they hold... But I'd hope it would at least make their bad faith arguments way less acceptable and fallen for by the average person.

    I could also be just being hopelessly optimistic of an alternate timeline that won't happen anyways... Who knows I guess

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (2 children)

    Very true, though I think it would bring a lot more people who are current fence-sitting, or just don’t know anything about trans people/healthcare and prone to fall for conservative lies, into the know on just how silly the transphobic rhetoric is

    To be honest, I think this alone would make the whole venture worth it. Those who might be reached with reason. I was way off on the wrong side of all this at one time, but because someone didn't totally write me off and I kept taking in new information, I found my way out of ignorance. My heart goes out to all the people on the wrong side today who will someday look back on this time in their lives with shame, as I do with that time in my life.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Yeah exactly! I've always tried to be mindful that not everyone who has possibly transphobic views are necessarily a "transphobe", and may just be someone that's misinformed... in an information bubble that's designed from the start to be against us.

    I've always been open to talking with people who are a bit "eh" on it, and always try to be respectful... As long as they can do the same. I feel as though a lot of people are willing to listen, and even if they don't immediately agree with everything, it still helps to introduce a different perspective and new information that they can think on and further look into in the future.

    The entire topic is tangled in hatred, suspicion and purposeful dehumanisation of us... It can be hard for the average person to untangle from that if it's all the info they know, so we have to reconnect on a human level

    If everyone is immediately prickly when someone says something misguided, it won't solve anything, it just drives us all further into our own echo chambers... Though I can understand why some are immediately prickly to transphobic comments... We deal with enough abuse that it can get too much and defensive walls get built to protect ourselves. It's why we need cis allies to speak out more alongside us because the trans community can't be the only ones standing up against this billionaire-funded behemoth of a campaign... It just won't work out. I love stuff like the Not in Our Name collective in the UK for this same reason, it just needs a more attention as most don't know of it.

    Those driving this hate campaign want us to not talk to each other, and look at each other from large deep chasms, because that's how they drive the wedge further in. So I try to communicate with those at least willing to have a civil conversation even if it may be a bit uncomfortable sometimes.

    Of course, if someone is just straight up an a-hole and it's clear they aren't willing to be civil and want to just hate and attack, then yeah they are definitely a transphobe and I just stay clear of them lol

    Also sorry for the long rambles - I'm prone to it sometimes 😅

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    there'll be so many cis people who find out that they're intersex

    Would be nice to witness that, even though it would be shrugged off, I'm pretty sure

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    Doubt it, at least as the tansphobic right continue trying to restrict rights, and the people who thought they were safe from it suddenly find themselves othered. Such as if a terf athlete suddenly found out she had the SRY, or XY chromosomes (via one of the intersex varieties), and are suddenly banned from the sports she thought she was allowed into... I wouldn't wish anyone to have to deal with that, despite how many of them are pushing that exact thing... But I doubt they'd be able to just shrug it off if it started to effect them because of the erosion of rights they thought they were safe from.

    Sadly some people don't care about, or at the very least don't keep up with news on, the erosion of minority rights if they're secluded from it... Until they suddenly find themselves in the minority

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    Yeah, the last paragraph is what I expect, very little percentage will be directly affected and will find out that was the issue, the rest would think it's fair because people in charge can't be at fault.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    This thread reminds me of Reddit

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  • [–] 23 points 3 weeks ago

    There will always be assholes in comment sections, I’m really happy to finally see some visible pushback on those asshole opinions!

    This place is like Reddit in a lot of ways because it’s the same kind of forum setup. But that also means we can shape our own communities to be what we want instead of having to bend to the already established subreddits.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    The first half genuinly warms my heart.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 weeks ago (17 children)

    Some women feel like a female toilet is one of the very few "safe spaces" women have, and that allowing pre-op mtf transgender women negates that safe space.

    In a world where women are unable to feel safe in public, it's kind of understandable why they would feel as though the one place they managed to establish must be maintained.

    My personal view is, toilets and change rooms just aren't safe spaces. For men or women. Cis men get assaulted in toilets all the time. A cis male could SA a woman in a toilet. I don't think transgender people increase the risk significantly.

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  • [–] 49 points 3 weeks ago (12 children)

    They don’t increase the risk and those women who want to gatekeep a fucking bathroom are TERFs.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago (9 children)

    That's is what TERF means, yes.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)

    I’m agreeing and bolstering your comment, sorry if it came off blunt and like I was correcting you!

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

    Fuck it. The time to politely engage on this issue is long gone. Even if we come off as aggressive, the pushback needs to be extreme.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

    Hah oh I feel this very much - I have a reputation around Lemmy for being the meanie feminist kill joy. I just also recognize im_fine_sandy and I'm pretty sure they're an ally :)

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Not sure I'm an ally but certainly not an adversary. I think I'm ambivalent but try to understand everyone's perspective.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago

    Eh I usually recognize usernames if they are particularly ornery and so far I’ve only seen pretty chill comments from you. I’ll take not an adversary and maybe we can convert you into being an ally :)

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Feminist? Absolutely and that's a great thing. The world need waay more feminists.
    Killjoy tho? Not in the slightest.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    One of the few good things my narcissist mother did was instill strong feminist values in me from a very young age.

    As a now old, I just keep getting angrier that society is backsliding on this somehow. Fucking Gilead.

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  • [+] -7 points 3 weeks ago* (8 children)

    I understand, don't generalize but generalize instead

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  • [–] 13 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Well, trans people make up about 1% of the population while men make up about 50% - there's a lot more bad apples in the 50% than the 1% statistically.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Who said anything about generalizations?

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago

    Well, you've convinced me. We have to have bathroom bills that prevent men from using restrooms!

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